What's new

"Patch of the Might" - Podcast Discussion.

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Hello, everyone. I hope you all enjoyed this year's EVO, which REO, Tom, Zyphox, a special guest, and I will discuss on the next podcast. In this short episode, REO and I talk about the community's incessant requests for buffs and nerfs one last time. We focus on the following questions, which are written in the order that they are discussed.

- What do you think about the community's incessant requests for buffs and nerfs?

- Should players only focus on playing the game while the developers focus on balancing the game?

- How much impact would fixing hitbox issues as well as evenly distributing krushing blows have on the game's balance?

- What are some of the most ridiculous buffs that you have seen on Test Your Might?

- Does a game need to be balanced to be fun to play?

- For how long will requests for buffs and nerfs cease after a patch is finally released?

Feel free to opine and join the discussion in this thread. All feedback is welcome and considered for the next episode.

 

Wigy

There it is...
I usually really enjoy these but I watched this earlier and just found it repetitive and not very insightful.

Fact is. This game is not huge in depth.

Yeah you guys are right but you don't mention how shallow this game is depth wise and how its just individual talent and reads for the most part.

Mix that with the fact the games not been patched for 3 months with horrendous obvious dumb shit, you can understand why TYM is just a shit show

Most of the big tech found was just hitbox exploits.
 

Enexemander

A Hitbox Pirate - YARRR -
My advice to both you @M2Dave and @REO is to lead by example. If you want to go to TYM and talk in depth about characters, match ups, tools, the scene, etc?

MAKE THOSE THREADS

You don't have to carry them yourself, but it would help to get the ball rolling. Instead you've devoted 30 minutes to complaining about the complaints. There are more constructive uses for your time.

On patches- People are talking about patches because hitboxes are busted and a patch for that is 4 months overdue. You're just going to have to take the fucking L on that. Sorry to both of you. Someone has to light a fire under their asses. If you go peddle the idea that everything is fine to the Johnny Cage community, you better wear a cup.
 
I listened to the last podcast where REO and M2Dave both talked about being burned out and kind of indifferent to playing anymore. Mind you, the game hasn't been out for 4 months.

This podcast rehashed more of the same. Two guys who barely like playing anymore complaining that people want changes to the game.

REO says in one breath "oh yeah i didn't even bother making a strategy guide for Erron Black because he's braindead easy to play" then tells people they shouldn't ask for changes that would add depth.

Honestly no game is without people clamoring for change. I play Overwatch for example which is constantly getting patched and people are constantly talking about changes they want. Even with that most people play through the cycles because the game is fun.

REO is right that fun and balance are not the same but you have to realize that when people are talking about the next "balance patch" they're also talking about a bunch of qol shit to make the game better.


M2Dave saying "it's not your job to balance the game" is fucking stupid. People give their opinions because they love the series and want to see it grow. It's not your "job" to make podcast complaining about people wanting a patch but here you are, the lack of introspection is astounding here.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Honestly no game is without people clamoring for change. I play Overwatch for example which is constantly getting patched and people are constantly talking about changes they want. Even with that most people play through the cycles because the game is fun.
They play through the cycles bc they have to, at least in mid ranks and above. That doesn't mean OW is a mess of a game, with some of the most obnoxious balance I've ever seen in a game.

8 month meta of free rez, over a year of 1 particular comp being almost the only one viable in 90% of maps, etc.
 
They play through the cycles bc they have to, at least in mid ranks and above. That doesn't mean OW is a mess of a game, with some of the most obnoxious balance I've ever seen in a game.

8 month meta of free rez, over a year of 1 particular comp being almost the only one viable in 90% of maps, etc.
Say what you want, you can disagree with the decisions but they were constantly looking for ways to implement stuff the players wanted to see. They took lots of risks. 2 years out they are STILL looking for ways to improve the game and taking input from players. I have nothing but respect for how Blizzard handles their game.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Premium Supporter
I listened to the podcast and can confirm there is too much crying for buffs but ppl get all too defensive up here.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Say what you want, you can disagree with the decisions but they were constantly looking for ways to implement stuff the players wanted to see. They took lots of risks. 2 years out they are STILL looking for ways to improve the game and taking input from players. I have nothing but respect for how Blizzard handles their game.
You mean letting mercy rez for free for 8 months, making valkyrie basically make her unkillable and fights taking ages, with picks not mattering? Or the double sniper meta where no DPS outside of those 2 were viable and you'd instantly die if you peeked a sniper? How about the brig meta where GOATS was the only viable comp on 90% of the game's maps since Jan 2018, only recently fixed? Or DPS players being stuck playing brig/zarya for the last 1,5 year? Even worse if you're a proj DPS, where you might get to play your role once every 5 maps, for 1 point.

I just described a little over 2 years of broken shit going unchecked, in the 3 years and 3 months of OW being out. I could also add characters being completely and utterly useless and outclassed for several years as well, but where would the fun be?

They didn't take risks. Their approach was the exact opposite of taking risks, they wanted to play it super safe and they let all the broken shit stay in the games for months and months and months on end, without trying even small fixes. Now they're forced to take risks, 1 year after most of the competitive playerbase was done with their shit.

Yeah, you have respect because you're talking about the casual side while being clueless about how it affected the pro and semi-pro scene. As someone who has peaked top 500 S9, GM S4, ( <0.1% of ladder ), has coached individuals and teams for nearly 2 years and kept a close eye on the pro scene since release, you couldn't be more astoundingly wrong. You sound like you have 0 clue of the competitive scene.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: 7L
Its simple. Ask most people about if they have labbed against their complaints,and you will realize about 95% do not even go into practice mode (I was told the tutorial is irrelevant). Now that its confirmed were getting a patch people are acting so happy even though after 2 weeks these same assholes will complain even more. It legit happens every game and my assessment is this is a huge cultural issue. Im all for fixing broke shit but people literally want the game to their tailoring in every aspect, hence all the patch threads. Ive asked so many people what is depth and i never get a legit answer because its a fake meaning.
 

Wigy

There it is...
They play through the cycles bc they have to, at least in mid ranks and above. That doesn't mean OW is a mess of a game, with some of the most obnoxious balance I've ever seen in a game.

8 month meta of free rez, over a year of 1 particular comp being almost the only one viable in 90% of maps, etc.
Mercy res meta was bad but the rest is just untrue unless you're literally at the pro level.

I have various accounts at all different ranks up to GM and there isn't a viable comp for every map. Even if there was that doesn't happen in ranked.

Only dominant meta I can think of is goats.
Which blizzard tried to address about 12 times.

If netherealm supported their games 1/10th of what blizzard do I'd be happy.

Much respect but you can't put Nrs in the same conversation as blizzard for community support.

Endless free characters and constant patching, events etc.
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
Play Sonya for a bit and then play Jade. Play Geras for a bit and then play D’Vorah. Play EB for a bit and then play Kano. Play Kabal for a bit then play Frost. Then come back and tell me you don’t think these buff and nerf requests are warranted.
 
Last edited:

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Mercy res meta was bad but the rest is just untrue unless you're literally at the pro level.

I have various accounts at all different ranks up to GM and there isn't a viable comp for every map. Even if there was that doesn't happen in ranked.

Which blizzard tried to address about 12 times.

If netherealm supported their games 1/10th of what blizzard do I'd be happy.

Much respect but you can't put Nrs in the same conversation as blizzard for community support.

Endless free characters and constant patching, events etc.
If you're only up to GM, it doesn't apply for you. It applies for us who tried going pro/semi pro in 4.3/4/5 k+ scrims and dealt with that.

And 4.3k+ games, if you've been consistently in them ( not east coast lol ).

I didn't say a single viable comp for every map, 90% of them. You could only not run goats on 10% of the maps, otherwise if you lost the 1st fight you could literally never come back vs proper ult economy snowball.

I'm not comparing companies btw, just pointing out that what he said is completely untrue.
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
Half the cast is legit redundant. There is no reason to play Kitana while Sonya exists. She literally does everything Kitana does, and more, and 10 times better. There is no reason to play Jade while Cetrion exists. You can go down the cast and see that certain ones are just better all around than others, and that needs to be fixed asap.
 

Wigy

There it is...
If you're only up to GM, it doesn't apply for you. It applies for us who tried going pro/semi pro in 4.3/4/5 k+ scrims and dealt with that.

And 4.3k+ games, if you've been consistently in them ( not east coast lol ).

I didn't say a single viable comp for every map, 90% of them. You could only not run goats on 10% of the maps, otherwise if you lost the 1st fight you could literally never come back vs proper ult economy snowball.

I'm not comparing companies btw, just pointing out that what he said is completely untrue.
Fair enough dude. Blizzard did make about 92 changes to try and kill goats. That was some immortal ass goat.

Also a point that 99% of folks aren't doing scrims n shit. Much like how the majority of the community aren't at a level where the top tier aren't incredibly oppressive
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Fair enough dude. Blizzard did make about 92 changes to try and kill goats. That was some immortal ass goat.

Also a point that 99% of folks aren't doing scrims n shit. Much like how the majority of the community aren't at a level where the top tier aren't incredibly oppressive
That's because they made a char that only functions in goats. Brig was an absolutely useless character in anything but that 1 particular comp. The only time I'd ever pick her outside goats is if ppl constantly died to flankers, to babysit the main support bc off-healers don't peel.

99% of folks are casual, yes. A bunch of those things don't affect them, but the game has had several persistent problems throughout the years. Saying that Blizzard is bold when their entire MO is to wait as long as possible and patch right before the community is about to explode for the 5th time is a straight up lie. And it's not just OW, every single game they've made.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Fact is. This game is not huge in depth.

Yeah you guys are right but you don't mention how shallow this game is depth wise and how its just individual talent and reads for the most part.
I agree with you 100%, but I have personally mentioned that the game lacks depth on various occasions. I even asked whether NRS games are only meant to last two years.

Someone has to light a fire under their asses. If you go peddle the idea that everything is fine to the Johnny Cage community, you better wear a cup.
Nobody made the suggestion that "everything is fine". The fact that the game has hitbox issues is well-known. NRS must have received a thousands of complaints on social media by now, including incessant complaints from this podcast.

Two guys who barely like playing anymore complaining that people want changes to the game.
I like the game and I consistently play locally and online. The fact is that NRS used to patch regularly and people screamed "Allow the game to develop!" Now that they waited four months in order to gather sufficient data and make the best balancing decisions possible people have been screaming "Patch the game immediately!". The reality is that NRS listen to the fans 90% of the time. Whatever people ask for they deliver the vast majority of the time.
 

GrandMasterson

The Netherrealm beckons
I don't care for buff/nerf discussions either but it's really silly to say that such discussions are for the developers and not the players. People talking about changes they want to see in a game is just a very basic subject of discussion. It can even lead to other people challenging their views and perhaps making them realize that the game doesn't need to be changed as much they think. I agree that it's become a bit too constant but we're almost 4 months into a competitive game with virtually no balance changes; it's hard to blame anyone for this being a hot topic.
With that said Reo is correct that a balanced game doesn't mean a fun game and vice versa. MK11 could be the most balanced fighting game ever and I would still think MK9 just flat out feels better to play.
 

Wigy

There it is...
@Qwark28

Honestly as far as character balance, aside from the mercy meta I think they were pretty quick to at least try sort things with patch. The other one is the ranked 2/2/2. I think they just didn't want to do that unless they had to. Which they obviously ended up NEEDING to.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Also, the pressure of community outcry does reach and effect developers, we can see that from boons tweet on nightwolf release. Apologising to us.

From a marketing standpoint it's smart to please your consumers. People are guna stop purchasing season passes next game if they don't immediately step up their game.

@M2Dave fair enough man I don't recall it. I stopped 3/4 the way through. It's just a bit silly to say let's all just enjoy and talk about tech not patches when theres like nothing to discuss.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
@Qwark28

Honestly as far as character balance, aside from the mercy meta I think they were pretty quick to at least try sort things with patch. The other one is the ranked 2/2/2. I think they just didn't want to do that unless they had to. Which they obviously ended up NEEDING to.
There are still a bunch of chars that are just unviable or were left untouched for ages, but at least this version of the game is better than the previous ones. Not that that's an achievement in any way, the game lost 90% of its fun after s6, but it started all the way from S2. offtanks are still in dva prison, proj dps can almost never play genji/junkrat, etc.

I pretty much stopped playing the game completely after a couple months of goats, as a proj DPS player.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
I like the game and I consistently play locally and online. The fact is that NRS used to patch regularly and people screamed "Allow the game to develop!" Now that they waited four months in order to gather sufficient data and make the best balancing decisions possible people have been screaming "Patch the game immediately!". The reality is that NRS listen to the fans 90% of the time. Whatever people ask for they deliver the vast majority of the time.
If that's the case then why try and silence people up? Let them go nuts with what they want to see changed. It's not like NRS is gonna copy paste everything.