Video Parry Inconsistency in MKXL by Ando1184

[ando1184]

Hi guys, one mechanic I don't see a lot about is parries. Well I decided to lab it and was kind of shocked at how things just didn't make sense as I went through the characters' special moves. Just wanted to share the info and hopefully with the talk of a kp3 possibly being on the way, we can get these issues fixed. Check out the video below:

@Tim Static @MsMiharo @Pig Of The Hut @anyone else who uses characters with parries

Airborne Parry-able Moves:

- Jax - dive punch, rising knee punch
- Sonya - Javelin Kick
- Kano - Kanoball, Upball
- Scorpion - Teleport, Air teleport
- Ermac - Teleport, Air teleport (No)
- Takeda - Teleport, Spin Kick, Air spin kick
- Mileena - Telekick, Roll
- Kung Lao - Teleport Attacks
- Alien - Tail Flip (No), Pounce (No)
- Leatherface - Capital Punishment
- Predator - Scimitar Stab, Capital Punishment (No)
- Kung Jin - Flying Kick (No), Flipkick (No), Rising Kick (on the way down only)
- Erron Black - Slide
- Liu Kang - Flying Kick (No), Bicycle Kick (No)
- Bo Rai Cho - Fatpedo, Bump and Dump
- Quan Chi - Skydrop (No), Portal Kick (No)
- Johnny Cage - Flipkick
- Cassie Cage - Rising Kick, EX Rising Kick
- Raiden - Flying man, Rising Uppercut
- Cyrax - EX teleport, Teleport (No)
- Sektor - Teleport Uppercut
- Smoke - Tele drop
- Reptile - Flip Slash
- Goro - EX Stomp (on the way up only)
- Jacqui - Dash Punch
- Tanya - Drill Kick, Flip Kick
Kitana - Rising Fan (No), Square Wave (No)

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Liu Kang can't parry anything airborne. Idk if that's a bug or not

 

[ando1184]

Every character still follows the same rules universally, meaning no one can parry airborne opponents. But they can and all parry airborn-esc specials like mileena's tele kick and raiden's flying man attacks. The issue is that there are moves like raiden's flying man attack that go parried but then moves that share the same properties like LK flying kick, that can't be parried at all.

@FOREVER EL1TE

 

[villainous monk]

I can confirm your absolutely right about commando Kano.

Almost anything that's is an overhead or airborne type of move even when MB he can't parry but it's weird because he can still parry kano ball?

I know it a weird inconsistency I've noticed with cmd kano since day one. He aslo sometimes has this same issue with his low parry.

 

[colby4898]

Fortunately Sonya's x-ray parry absolutely everyhting, even up close projectiles lol

 

[Wetdoba]

Nothing is consistant in this game, never has been, never will be

 

[ando1184]

Nothing is consistant in this game, never has been, never will be

Doesn't mean we should just sit back and be satisfied that things are this imbalanced. As long as I find stuff like this I'll post it up in hopes that it will be fixed. If not in mkXL then at least in future titles.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Either make all parries parry everything except jis and certain specials, or nerf Sonya's X-Ray parry to the ground

 

[kantboy-2]

Only regular jump ins and X-rays should not get parried, ground attacks and special moves should be fair game.

They fixed tick throws last time, we can only hope this gets addressed and streamlined.

 

[colby4898]

Sonyas X-Ray should parry everything though. It would be dumb if she would lose her x-ray to a jump in

 

[Immortal]

Kenshi parry has exactly the same problems and more. Since you're parring whole strings there are weird glitches there as well. Some strings get inv. in the middle and you get hit no matter what.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Great video!

 

[Tanno]

This is news for me. Sonya's EX Flying Kick shouldn't be parried, because she jumped. In Subby's case, the Parry oughtn't to work due of the privilege to parry ONLY the horizontial attacks. NOT the overhead and the jumping attacks.

@Jeffrey Wolf , you also found that Mileena's Warp Kick is also being parried, which ought not to be the case.

NRS needs to fix those parries. If fixed, the matches should be more interesting on their own way.

As a Sub Zero main, I have found out that the normal Parry do work against Wakeup attacks, thus dubbed as AWP (Anti-Wakeup Parry). Some special attacks aren't working at all due of their jumping privilege, like Alien's Xeno Pounce.

 

[Wetdoba]

Doesn't mean we should just sit back and be satisfied that things are this imbalanced. As long as I find stuff like this I'll post it up in hopes that it will be fixed. If not in mkXL then at least in future titles.

I get where you are coming from just realize there are multiple more inconsistancies then parry mechanics in this game. Obviously the biggest is moves labelled as mids not hitting mids, swriously, there is straight up no excuse for that.

The other biggest is random grab immunity. In a game that makes sense, grabs would lose to any move that was airborne, and beat any move that is fully grounded, but not in NRS games. Moves where both feet are on the ground will sometimes just ignore command grabs and blow them up for a full combo when they should have lost. Even stupider is that there are moves where both the characters feet leave the ground but they can still be grabbed. Scorpions F3 hop kick for example is the perfect examlle if a move that you should be able to blow up a command grab on a read with but instead loses.

Then there are also inconsistancies in the properties of projectiles. Moves that are suppose to destroy projectiles like Subs EX iceball or Ferra tosses straight up dont work on certain characters like full auto jaqui guns. Hell, when they buffed Kotals sun disc to eat projectiles they made it so Ferra doesnt destroy the disc anymore it just passes through her. Do you think that NRS did that on purpose? Of course not, the only thif on their mind was buff Kotal and move on, they werent thinking about how that new property would interect with other characters and they certainly didnt test it. I bet money they have no idea how disc interects eith Ferra toss now. Same thing happened in Injustice where stuff like GLs mini gun didnt actually count as a projectile when Bane would level 3 charge and with projectile immunity but would get blown up anyway. NRS doesnt really approach fighting games that way, they only change stuff when scrubs cry or apparently now twitter polls lol

They fixed tick throws last time, we can only hope this gets addressed and streamlined.

What was wrong with tick throws in injustice or this game? They have always worked how they are suppose to

 

[ando1184]

I get where you are coming from just realize there are multiple more inconsistancies then parry mechanics in this game. Obviously the biggest is moves labelled as mids not hitting mids, swriously, there is straight up no excuse for that.

The other biggest is random grab immunity. In a game that makes sense, grabs would lose to any move that was airborne, and beat any move that is fully grounded, but not in NRS games. Moves where both feet are on the ground will sometimes just ignore command grabs and blow them up for a full combo when they should have lost. Even stupider is that there are moves where both the characters feet leave the ground but they can still be grabbed. Scorpions F3 hop kick for example is the perfect examlle if a move that you should be able to blow up a command grab on a read with but instead loses.

Then there are also inconsistancies in the properties of projectiles. Moves that are suppose to destroy projectiles like Subs EX iceball or Ferra tosses straight up dont work on certain characters like full auto jaqui guns. Hell, when they buffed Kotals sun disc to eat projectiles they made it so Ferra doesnt destroy the disc anymore it just passes through her. Do you think that NRS did that on purpose? Of course not, the only thif on their mind was buff Kotal and move on, they werent thinking about how that new property would interect with other characters and they certainly didnt test it. I bet money they have no idea how disc interects eith Ferra toss now. Same thing happened in Injustice where stuff like GLs mini gun didnt actually count as a projectile when Bane would level 3 charge and with projectile immunity but would get blown up anyway. NRS doesnt really approach fighting games that way, they only change stuff when scrubs cry or apparently now twitter polls lol

I labbed the parry stuff so that's why I brought it up, I know there are countless hitbox and other issues. I do agree that the grab immunity thing is an issue that's really bothersome. I made a vid awhile back about that and they did touch up on it from what it originally was. However, it still does go throw some random scenarios that don't make sense, kinda like the examples you listed.

 

[Wetdoba]

I labbed the parry stuff so that's why I brought it up, I know there are countless hitbox and other issues. I do agree that the grab immunity thing is an issue that's really bothersome. I made a vid awhile back about that and they did touch up on it from what it originally was. However, it still does go throw some random scenarios that don't make sense, kinda like the examples you listed.

Yeah I know the video is actually very good. I labbed the grab immunity stuff in the same way with at least half the cast but gave up and never made a video, would have been too much work lol. A consistent system for move types and how to counter them is just fighting game 101 stuff to me. If I go to the move list and see the description of the move is that it beats A B and C but loses to X Y Z then it should always do that. Its common sense really and it makes the game feel shitily made and its amazing they didnt fix this or the biggest inconsistency of all, the frame data, even with MKXL. If they didn't do it then then it wont happen at all with this game. Stuff like that you have to commit to when building the infrastructure of the game. If you want to see a consistent system just look at KI, they handle that perfectly.

That being said, I'm actually hopeful that they will finally be truly consistent across the board with their mechanics for Injustice 2 since it is a legacy game and it would give them time to really focus on that.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

You found the only useful thing about skydrop

 

[champdee]

interesting, nice work on the video man.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

There are some parries that are considered "aura", if you attack them while in the area of affect you got hit by the parries, that's the explanation for Flame Aura, Frost Aura and Sonya xray
Some parries require hitbox contact to work, disjointed hitbox will ignore the parry, that's why Kotal's ex parry doesn't work on Cyro's oh hammer.
Funny things: Sonya xray is an "aura" (or a blackhole) can't parry a disjointed hitbox normal if the opponents' hurtbox are outside of the xray aoe as Sonya got hit. She can parry Takeda's B2 with CO parry, but if she uses xray and Takeda does B2 at long range Takeda will beat her xray lol
And for some teleports and "flying moves" NRS simply forgot to mark them as air moves. Welcome to NRS games lol (remember when we can DUCK overheads?, remember low pokes that can be low profiled under?)

 

[Lokheit]

I didn't know there were such big differences between regular parries, this should be addressed.

There are some parries that are considered "aura", if you attack them while in the area of affect you got hit by the parries, that's the explanation for Flame Aura, Frost Aura and Sonya xray
Some parries require hitbox contact to work, disjointed hitbox will ignore the parry, that's why Kotal's ex parry doesn't work on Cyro's oh hammer.
Funny things: Sonya xray is an "aura" (or a blackhole) can't parry a disjointed hitbox normal if the opponents' hurtbox are outside of the xray aoe as Sonya got hit. She can parry Takeda's B2 with CO parry, but if she uses xray and Takeda does B2 at long range Takeda will beat her xray lol
And for some teleports and "flying moves" NRS simply forgot to mark them as air moves. Welcome to NRS games lol (remember when we can DUCK overheads?, remember low pokes that can be low profiled under?)

Cryo's OH Hammer ignores every non X-Ray parry in the game as far as I know, not jut Kotal. His burst too IIRC (not 100% sure right now about this one).

The only "aura" parries that I know of are the 2 X-Ray ones (Sonya and Sub-Zero when you hold it), those can parry anything as long as the opponent body is in range as you said. Fun fact: Sub-Zero X-Ray parry doesn't count as a freeze and if cancel it after freezing you can combo for more damage than the X-Ray depending on position and variation (Cryo everywhere, all in the corner).

 

[ando1184]

This "aura" thing, who coined that phrase anyway? I don't see it anywhere within the game itself and NRS labled Sonya's X-ray as: "parries opponent's attack"? @YoloRoll1stHit
I hope this whole thing gets straightened out.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

@ando1184 hey, what do you think about reflectors in this game? I think that they are not very consistent... I was looking Unbreakable's parry/reflect and it's bad if it's used as a reflect because it does not recover instantly when it parry something... Also, Kenshi's reflect is not that great... try to reflect Gunslinger's shots, it's very hard to do the perfect time to reflect all Gunslinger's shots

And the EX reflectors (kenshi's and ronin's)... damn... 1 bar for only 5% HP . @YOMI REO has suggested a good buff for the EX reflectors :

- EX Reflect now absorbs and heals Takeda/Kenshi by the amount of damage the projectile attack is worth.

 

[ando1184]

@ando1184 hey, what do you think about reflectors in this game? I think that they are not very consistent... I was looking Unbreakable's parry/reflect and it's bad if it's used as a reflect because it does not recover instantly when it parry something... Also, Kenshi's reflect is not that great... try to reflect Gunslinger's shots, it's very hard to do the perfect time to reflect all Gunslinger's shots

And the EX reflectors (kenshi's and ronin's)... damn... 1 bar for only 5% HP . @YOMI REO has suggested a good buff for the EX reflectors :

- EX Reflect now absorbs and heals Takeda/Kenshi by the amount of damage the projectile attack is worth.

For kenshi, I would honestly like a buff for the parry/reflect property as well. That buff sounds pretty good but the main issue with the reflect is, like you said , it's not very good when trying to parry multihitting attacks together. Gunslinger shots can be absorbed and then canceled into another reflect though. But it does suck to have to use meter just to reflect both shots. I do think his reflect/parry are good but they need faster startup (at least ex version). If that happened, I'm ok with a 5% life gain. Unbreakable's parry just needs Jesus, the recovery is awful and it's pointless to use as a reflect.

 

[kantboy-2]

The problem with Kenshi's reflect/parry is that it's both; give him a reflect AND a parry independent from one another.

In Kenshi's case, make both moves able to reflect/parry multi hit moves/projectiles and allow him to cancel into MB special moves with his parry. He read the opponent correctly, so reward him. That would make him unique.

Kotal has the boost from parry. Sub gets the freeze. Kano, Liu Kang, Kitana punish. Sonya can do set ups. Jacqui and Takeda can stop and reflect. Kenshi can multi parry/reflect with no life gain or anything, just give him advantage to properly counter.

Or I'm just talking out of my ass, like always.

 

[ando1184]

The problem with Kenshi's reflect/parry is that it's both; give him a reflect AND a parry independent from one another.

In Kenshi's case, make both moves able to reflect/parry multi hit moves/projectiles and allow him to cancel into MB special moves with his parry. He read the opponent correctly, so reward him. That would make him unique.

Kotal has the boost from parry. Sub gets the freeze. Kano, Liu Kang, Kitana punish. Sonya can do set ups. Jacqui and Takeda can stop and reflect. Kenshi can multi parry/reflect with no life gain or anything, just give him advantage to properly counter.

Or I'm just talking out of my ass, like always.

Yeh this is pretty much the point I was trying to make too, but you broke it down better