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Overlooked Variations

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
I think D’Vorah’s and Kollector’s unused variations have some potential, especially if those characters receive buffs down the line.

I wish I could say the same about Kano’s because it’s really cool conceptually but my god is it just ass. Maybe if the acid gets buffed to not whiff off every fucking thing ever and the Molotov ends up without three minutes of start-up we’ll see some dirt there too, no pun intended.
 

Dreamcatcher

BaCk FrOm ThE dEaD
Royal Contributor
I wish I could say the same about Kano’s because it’s really cool conceptually but my god is it just ass. Maybe if the acid gets buffed to not whiff off every fucking thing ever and the Molotov ends up without three minutes of start-up we’ll see some dirt there too, no pun intended.
Yeah I didn't even do an analysis for Kano's because I can't come up with any extra value there. I mained Kano and loved using him for my brief time in MKX, but I cannot like him in this game no matter how hard I try. He just does not fit my play style at all.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
I don't think JC is S tier by any means but I think a lot of mains are downplaying him for sure. Didn't KombatKiller just run that tourney with JC?
Indeed he did. It was a very odd choice of Sonic to use Erron though. That MU aint bad at all for Johnny. Sonic could have picked Cassie or Sonya and leveled Kombat....and that didn't go unnoticed.
 

Dreamcatcher

BaCk FrOm ThE dEaD
Royal Contributor
Indeed he did. It was a very odd choice of Sonic to use Erron though. That MU aint bad at all for Johnny. Sonic could have picked Cassie or Sonya and leveled Kombat....and that didn't go unnoticed.
Yeah it didn't make sense to me either. Surprised he didn't use Jacqui.
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
I've never actually played Force of Nature in a match, but I've seen some people do cool things with it (is Shujinkidink still rolling that variation?)

She has the boulder cancels that can bait teleports and the such, and vines is a decent enough replacement for geyser, but losing her amazing teleport is too much to make me wanna try it out.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
It's not overlooked. The JC community looked at it hard and we found it to be horrible. The sunglasses throw is a fucking joke. It's 24f, and has dick for range and is a mid that consistently whiffs. The camera is also bad. You cant use B34, or F4, and you use lose the best restand in the game.

It's objectively bad.
Cheese man, this is fun a thread for talking about underused variations. It's like a huge problem for some people to see other opinions.

You realize that you use the sunglasses as a combo ender when you have fatal blow, right? I'm asking because you are talking about it like it's some neutral move and that I was arguing that you should be zoning with it. The camera is bad, because it's bad, gotcha. B34 does combo into camera in corner but yes, like I said, not having the consistent midscreen combo from is a big knock on the variation. You can't use F4? A long range mid with no gaps that is -5? What's your logic, that you don't have an unsafe launcher to yolo into?
Some of you guys are too sensitive, I said the variation seemed usable.

Yeah showstopper is bad, you lose the best restand in the game and a probably the second best fireball for much shittier versions of both things.
You don't lose his normal projectile in ShowStopper. IIRC that's what they said in the Kombat Kast but a lot of stuff has changed since the prerelease builds.
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
I'm trying to learn the Raijin variation for Raiden. I don't think it's overlooked in terms of value, but he gets his Summon Lightning move, which can really shut down an opponent who likes to jump, and gets access to a 4 frame special with his Quick Charge/Discharge DB3 move. I find it an interesting variation, although it means leaving a lot of mid screen combo damage off the table.
 

Dreamcatcher

BaCk FrOm ThE dEaD
Royal Contributor
I'm trying to learn the Raijin variation for Raiden. I don't think it's overlooked in terms of value, but he gets his Summon Lightning move, which can really shut down an opponent who likes to jump, and gets access to a 4 frame special with his Quick Charge/Discharge DB3 move. I find it an interesting variation, although it means leaving a lot of mid screen combo damage off the table.
Yes indeed. I wanted to do a synopsis on it but wanted to lab it some more first. It's very useable at face value imo.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Cheese man, this is fun a thread for talking about underused variations. It's like a huge problem for some people to see other opinions.

You realize that you use the sunglasses as a combo ender when you have fatal blow, right? I'm asking because you are talking about it like it's some neutral move and that I was arguing that you should be zoning with it. The camera is bad, because it's bad, gotcha. B34 does combo into camera in corner but yes, like I said, not having the consistent midscreen combo from is a big knock on the variation. You can't use F4? A long range mid with no gaps that is -5? What's your logic, that you don't have an unsafe launcher to yolo into?
Some of you guys are too sensitive, I said the variation seemed usable.



You don't lose his normal projectile in ShowStopper. IIRC that's what they said in the Kombat Kast but a lot of stuff has changed since the prerelease builds.
We have a misunderstanding. I meant you cant use B34 or F4~camera mid screen. Get me? That's why camera is bad. Come to think of it, I don't think you can use 34~camera either. I can't remember anymore.

Definitely not sensitive...just stating it wasn't overlooked. It's just bad.
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
I think D’Vorah’s and Kollector’s unused variations have some potential, especially if those characters receive buffs down the line.
That D'Vorah variation where she can put the wasps around the opponent and then cash out the damage later seemed interesting to me, but I haven't had a chance to really check it out yet.
 

Dreamcatcher

BaCk FrOm ThE dEaD
Royal Contributor
So I have a question while we are on the subject of JC's... What variations are not simply "overlooked" and are just unanimous garbage at a high level? These ones come to mind:

  • Johnny Cage "Show Stopper" (reasons already in this thread)
  • Kano "Dirtbag" (could have been so cool but sooooo much suck...)
  • Kung Lao "Lotus Fist" (expensive much?)
  • Shao Kahn "True Kahn" (ridicule/taunt seem like an actual joke to use despite the effects, ground shatter is super high risk/low reward)
  • Erron Black "Barking Irons" (I already summarized this one but I think most people think NRS was drunk when they put this together)
 
  • Erron Black "Barking Irons" (I already summarized this one but I think most people think NRS was drunk when they put this together)
It can't be overstated just how odd Barking Irons is. I really wanted to like it. The dynamite is such a cool and flavorful ability, but it's not even appreciably better than regular acid -- in fact, due to the longer start up and recovery, it's worse in most situations. Plus you're giving up a lot without Enhanced LnL, including one of Erron's only launchers.

I'd be totally down for it if they decreased dynamite's damage by a lot in favor of being faster all-around and not damaging yourself, instead positioning it as a set-up trap/launcher tool with light damage. It would still be worse than the other variation, but more fun to play.
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
It can't be overstated just how odd Barking Irons is. I really wanted to like it. The dynamite is such a cool and flavorful ability, but it's not even appreciably better than regular acid -- in fact, due to the longer start up and recovery, it's worse in most situations. Plus you're giving up a lot without Enhanced LnL, including one of Erron's only launchers.

I'd be totally down for it if they decreased dynamite's damage by a lot in favor of being faster all-around and not damaging yourself, instead positioning it as a set-up trap/launcher tool with light damage. It would still be worse than the other variation, but more fun to play.
Is it just me or did they do a pretty bad job overall with set-up variations this time around? Almost every variation focused around set-ups is the unused and total ass variation for the character.
 

trufenix

www.youtube.com/thetrufenix
Dude, be real...Please don't focus on one half of us, and not the other. The whole community doesn't think he's trash. Hell, I've been pretty vocal about my positivity towards him.
You're talking to someone who watched you bitch about A-List cancels the entirety of MKX's life, pal.
 

trufenix

www.youtube.com/thetrufenix
So I have a question while we are on the subject of JC's... What variations are not simply "overlooked" and are just unanimous garbage at a high level? These ones come to mind:

  • Johnny Cage "Show Stopper" (reasons already in this thread)
  • Kano "Dirtbag" (could have been so cool but sooooo much suck...)
  • Kung Lao "Lotus Fist" (expensive much?)
  • Shao Kahn "True Kahn" (ridicule/taunt seem like an actual joke to use despite the effects, ground shatter is super high risk/low reward)
  • Erron Black "Barking Irons" (I already summarized this one but I think most people think NRS was drunk when they put this together)
True Kahn is unusable, Erron with baby Rifle Stance just feels incomplete.
 

trufenix

www.youtube.com/thetrufenix
It can't be overstated just how odd Barking Irons is. I really wanted to like it. The dynamite is such a cool and flavorful ability, but it's not even appreciably better than regular acid -- in fact, due to the longer start up and recovery, it's worse in most situations. Plus you're giving up a lot without Enhanced LnL, including one of Erron's only launchers.

I'd be totally down for it if they decreased dynamite's damage by a lot in favor of being faster all-around and not damaging yourself, instead positioning it as a set-up trap/launcher tool with light damage. It would still be worse than the other variation, but more fun to play.
The only good thing about using the dynamite is that you can self brutal yourself for accidentally using it.
 
Is it just me or did they do a pretty bad job overall with set-up variations this time around? Almost every variation focused around set-ups is the unused and total ass variation for the character.
I believe the D'Vorah bug poop variation has gotten some positive buzz after SonicFox started playing it. But I'm trash so idk how real that was.
 

Dreamcatcher

BaCk FrOm ThE dEaD
Royal Contributor
I believe the D'Vorah bug poop variation has gotten some positive buzz after SonicFox started playing it. But I'm trash so idk how real that was.
I believe Honeybee is using it as well. I'm gonna try and find the random ranked encounter he had with NinjaKilla, pretty sure it was that variation.

edit: Lol you said buzz... anyway here's that video. It's the Buzzed variation right? The timed larvas and shit like that?

 
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Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
Dirtbag, Barking Irons, Spare Change, True Kahn and Totemic in so much as they set up buffs/debuffs, both D’Vorah variations lol, even New Era to an extent (compared to Infinite Warden at least).

I’m not saying they’re all absolute trash (some are) but it seems they really tried to play it safe with set-ups of all sorts in this game and they ended up lackluster compared to the alternatives at the very least.
 
I believe Honeybee is using it as well. I'm gonna try and find the random ranked encounter he had with NinjaKilla, pretty sure it was that variation.

edit: Lol you said buzz... anyway here's that video. It's the Buzzed variation right? The timed larvas and shit like that?

You may or may not believe, but I absolutely didn't intend "buzz" as a wordplay there :confused: legitimately I don't think I know the variation names for any character besides Erron, I just know vaguely what's in them.