Question - Ferra/Torr "OS", 4xxSpecial and best punishes?

[Parnak]

If I had no meter, I wouldn't bother with Torr up or Torr Charge, I'd just do 11 into mix-up. Even as a meterless option, its less useful that literally doing nothing at all in its place.

Even though its off topic, yes you run and b.2, or run and f.2. Both have the same timing, both have the same effect. Even if the opponent doesn't tech roll and you jog the same distance, throw the same move at the same timing, it produces the same result. If they delay WU, you're still left at advantage regardless of which WU speed they use. The amount of stamina it takes to run over someone after charge is 3x as much as the rollex requires, meaning if someone were to, say, MB torryuken you, your breaker stamina would be back by the time their move even finishes its animation. Regardless of how the enemy decides to wake-up barring the obvious vortex-breaking option of MB specials (which can be baited with a short run much easier than a jump, meaning mine is safer too), regardless of the speed of their wake-up, doing the same move at the same time produces the same result with very little, if any, investment from me, the Torr player, while requiring a large investment of either meter or a hard read from the opponent. Its not as simple as short delay into backdash.

Specifically, the opponent doesn't have the option of just "wake-up attack meterless or jump away" barring maybe Cassie Cage's wake-up backflip which is a 6 frame that still gets beaten out by f.2. The f.2 happens too fast for the jump to come out, and b.2 will swat them clean out of the air all the same. Hell if you do it right, most 8 and 9 frame wake-up reversals get stuffed by both options as well.

As for "Torrvex", I'll break that down later. I have to get ready for work right now. In the meantime, work on your timing, since the issues you seemed to have either don't exist (jump after roll) or are subject to how well you can do the combo (assuming the dash into b.2 suddenly stops working if they don't tech roll).

I would go for 1, 1 into mix-up too, should Torr's overhead be 19 frames in Lackey Variation. But it ain't, it's 23 frames, there can be no mix-up since Lackey B2 expires 1, 1 hit advantage and by the time it comes out they are out of reach anyway.

What I wrote for Rolltex, it comes from testing this combo; F2~F3~4xxB, F2. After this combo, if you commit to Run into B2 and they don't tech roll, they can wake up attack meterless or jump away just as I said. For this combo, you have time to do B2 only if you input it immediately after recovery from Roll. But if they tech-roll it whiffs. And if you Run there is not enough time to apply B2.

Judging from what you wrote, I presume that this ain't a true Rolltex combo? Is it only my perception of Rolltex? If so, could you write the inputs of a Rolltex combo that allows using Run into B2 like you said?

Now as for Torrvex, JIP looks great and all, yet they can learn to defend against it by simply stand blocking the overhead Jip2 and then fuzzy guarding against F2/B2 due to B2 being slow. I think they can also blow up B2 because Jip2 has no cancel advantage, merely +2 block advantage which is far from sufficient for a 23 frame follow up. No matter though, this has to do with Jip2 & B2 not Torrvex. All you need to do is dash in immediately after Torr Charge recovery, (dash ins are energy-free) then input B2, 3 almost immediately. Timing ain't hard. This is when you go for the overhead/anti backdash wake-up option. The other option is to tap D (down) after the dash, then immediately F2. That will do it and is also easy to do. With these steps, both starters can connect before their meterless wake-up hits you, before they can jump. B2, 3 can be block confirmed to forfeit the string's last block-punishable hit. The "3" -kick- part of the string can also punish a bunch of backdashes. Haven't tested Kano's. Here's more; Since you mentioned baiting, you can simply block after the dash-in. Isn't that a great way to bait them armored wake-ups, dashing right in front of the opponent, after having shown to them how you got a mix-up armed and dangerous, only to block instead of using it?

 

[Doombawkz]

I would go for 1, 1 into mix-up too, should Torr's overhead be 19 frames in Lackey Variation. But it ain't, it's 23 frames, there can be no mix-up since Lackey B2 expires 1, 1 hit advantage and by the time it comes out they are out of reach anyway.

What I wrote for Rolltex, it comes from testing this combo; F2~F3~4xxB, F2. After this combo, if you commit to Run into B2 and they don't tech roll, they can wake up attack meterless or jump away just as I said. For this combo, you have time to do B2 only if you input it immediately after recovery from Roll. But if they tech-roll it whiffs. And if you Run there is not enough time to apply B2.

Judging from what you wrote, I presume that this ain't a true Rolltex combo? Is it only my perception of Rolltex? If so, could you write the inputs of a Rolltex combo that allows using Run into B2 like you said?

Now as for Torrvex, JIP looks great and all, yet they can learn to defend against it by simply stand blocking the overhead Jip2 and then fuzzy guarding against F2/B2 due to B2 being slow. I think they can also blow up B2 because Jip2 has no cancel advantage, merely +2 block advantage which is far from sufficient for a 23 frame follow up. No matter though, this has to do with Jip2 & B2 not Torrvex. All you need to do is dash in immediately after Torr Charge recovery, (dash ins are energy-free) then input B2, 3 almost immediately. Timing ain't hard. This is when you go for the overhead/anti backdash wake-up option. The other option is to tap D (down) after the dash, then immediately F2. That will do it and is also easy to do. With these steps, both starters can connect before their meterless wake-up hits you, before they can jump. B2, 3 can be block confirmed to forfeit the string's last block-punishable hit. The "3" -kick- part of the string can also punish a bunch of backdashes. Haven't tested Kano's. Here's more; Since you mentioned baiting, you can simply block after the dash-in. Isn't that a great way to bait them armored wake-ups, dashing right in front of the opponent, after having shown to them how you got a mix-up armed and dangerous, only to block instead of using it?

You can buffer it and it should come out in 20 frames, but my testing might be flawed on that one.

Rolltex combos involve hitting a low late roll, so it would be something more like f.2 d.2 roll or b.23 2+4 f.2 d.2 roll.

This is more of a jist, if you tighten the execution you can beat out most things off of both tech rolls and non rolls.
It catches tech rolls at max distance, but when you do it correctly you can catch most backdashes using the f.2

One of the big problems with the Torrvex is that j.i.2 into b.2 and slight delay f.2 can be avoided by them blocking the j.i.2 and buffering backdash. j.i.2 into b.2 specifically isn't a true blockstring I don't think unless the j.i.2 is impossibly late, and they recover with enough time to block the remainder of b.23 2+4 (Torr's terrible backdash allowed him to both avoid and block). Also both of those options lose out to different speed delay WUs, whereas the jumping option did not but does not jail.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I had a similar issue last night when I had F/T in the lab. First time playing them and it took me 15min or so to figure it out. It seems like you have to go from 4 to bf4 very quickly. Take a look and make sure your inputs are clean, and try just inputting the string all together. Don't think of it as 4,bf4 but just 4bf4. Don't wait for the 4 to connect , throw it out as fast as you can. I went from unable to land it at all, to essentially 100% doing that. Works on my pad and stick.

 

[Shade667]

I had a similar issue last night when I had F/T in the lab. First time playing them and it took me 15min or so to figure it out. It seems like you have to go from 4 to bf4 very quickly. Take a look and make sure your inputs are clean, and try just inputting the string all together. Don't think of it as 4,bf4 but just 4bf4. Don't wait for the 4 to connect , throw it out as fast as you can. I went from unable to land it at all, to essentially 100% doing that. Works on my pad and stick.

yeah, alot of their stuff u gotta input before it connects. I had the opposite when I was learning other characters and it wasnt coming out unless I did it right as it connected.

 

[Dagothur209]

@Doombawkz @Parnak The best option during the 11 or 1,1 as you both refer is the mb torr upper option select. I created a video for you both to see.

 

[Parnak]

@Doombawkz @Parnak The best option during the 11 or 1,1 as you both refer is the mb torr upper option select. I created a video for you both to see.

...Impressive. This means that EX Torryuken will come out only on hit, where it matters.
I would very much like EX Torryuken to be as well option selectable off of Jip2 (jump in punch 2) but I have yet to find out how to do it. Is it even possible ?

 

[Doombawkz]

@Doombawkz @Parnak The best option during the 11 or 1,1 as you both refer is the mb torr upper option select. I created a video for you both to see.

Well I was speaking more in terms of meterless punishes, but nonetheless good stuff.