What's new

Online Tournaments Abroad Have Begun to Ban Jacqui

Should Jacqui be banned from online tournaments?


  • Total voters
    157

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Still don't understand the outrage about Quan Chi. I remember Ketchup or Mustard putting up a video with tech for him that seemed really degenerate, but then I kept watching tournaments over the next weeks and NOBODY used him, then he got nerfed and that was basically it.
Even the heavily gimped Quan made top 8 evo, broken Quan made top 8 evo without even his best variation. Character would ass blast you even without the vortex. I think another reason there was such outrage is that in the patch that everyone was expecting Quan nerfs, he got a 6F D1 to save him from Takeda corner rape, with Takeda at that point being dogshit.
 

Error404

Kombatant
No , but she should definetely be heavily nerfed before Evo. If not ,she will definetely Leroy the whole bracket
 

Archgamer

Mortal
This is too funny.

I hate fighting Jacqui with a passion. Why does she get cancels that cost no meter when everybody else that has one does? Why did she continues to get baby nerfs while Johnny gets slap so hard he becomes near useless now?

NRS is indeed very selective on who they want good and who they don't care about. Look at Shao Kahn. For a year he was sitting at the bottom and it took an outcry of Shao fans to demand buffs. F43 still has FB gap.

With that said, she shouldn't be ban. But she should be getting some serious nerfs. If Johnny gets it so should she. NRS loves her, Liu Kang and Cetrion. You can tell by the discrepancy of those 3 characters vs the other top tier characters.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
With that said, she shouldn't be ban. But she should be getting some serious nerfs. If Johnny gets it so should she. NRS loves her, Liu Kang and Cetrion. You can tell by the discrepancy of those 3 characters vs the other top tier characters.
Johnny has been more present in Top 8's and caused more tournament damage in the last few months then Liu, Cetrion, and Jacqui combined.
 

NeonGroovyGator

Vampire mommy simp
Johnny has been more present in Top 8's and caused more tournament damage in the last few months then Liu, Cetrion, and Jacqui combined.
People think whatever smacks them online must be the most OP stuff in the game as a whole.
Like, I don't get this mentality. Do you guys really think NRS balance team meetings go like "boy, I sure do love watching Liu Kang and Jacqui. Let's make them extremely strong while nerfing everything else"? Like wtf I want some of what you're having.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Imagine if in mkx ppl would ban Shinnok and Tremor in tournys lmao, Even vanilla Tanya who was legitimatly broke was still allowed to compete lol.

That being said, i voted yes cuz ppl should also be able to set their own rules for their own damn tournaments. None of y'all businesses to go apeshit about it.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Facts. And I am glad they haven't done that with MK11, for sure. The gap between bottom and top tier is certainly still there, but it's comparatively the smallest it's ever been in an NRS game, previously unviable characters or not. There has not been a Mileena VS Sheeva or Zod VS Lex Luthor level bad MU in a really really long time, and I applaud that.

What bothers me is the feeling that a LOT more effort went into making damn sure that Jacqui was great from the beginning and has stayed great ever since, having three of the best variations and arguably the best overall character design in the entire game. Meanwhile, you have other characters who look like their variations were thrown together at random, who LOOK like they were designed for a version of the game that was never meant to be hamstrung by variations to begin with, which is a huge part of why I'm still so against it. Open season for custom builds means a more difficult learning curve, which turns off casuals, who will always have the majority over competitive players in NRS games, so we lose out and end up with builds like Pitch Black, True Kahn, V3 Kollector before the patch, V1 Spawn, that Fujin variation that looks like it was meant to have the hurricane hands but doesn't because who knows why...characters were saddlebagged with unviable design flaws, while Jacqui, who was already on top BEFORE Upgraded was added to the game, got a brand new tournament build which put her so far over the edge that it had to be dialed back.
It goes back to my argument yesterday about developer's bias; you can't fully reinforce one or two characters while ignoring all the apparent problems at hand and not expect it to reflect badly on you. This last patch DID go a really long way in addressing a lot of those issues, and made several characters and variations viable that were previously not worth the time of day, and that should absolutely be commended. But it doesn't explain the special treatment that Jacqui specifically has had since opening day, that's brought about this argument to begin with. Who would want to compete in a game where they feel like the developers are more concerned with who THEY want to be good? Because to end up in a situation like this means someone or someone's made the conscious decision to put her on the top of the pile and keep her there, in spite of the fact that people have been clamoring for MONTHS now about how tired they are of fighting a character who has so many legs up on everyone else.
I am afraid that these theories are rarely ever accurate. Ed Boon's favorite character is Scorpion who sucks according to many players in the Scorpion community. 16 Bit's favorite character is Kitana who was awful when the game was released so she has been receiving nothing but buffs. Dizzy's favorite character is Johnny Cage who was mid tier on release and then super top tier due to Outtake, but he is arguably the most normalized top tier character in the most recent patch. I could go on, but the point is any person can consider these statements and construct any conspiracy theories to support his or her agenda.

Do you know what the developers really want to be good? The game. LOL. So they have a justification to ask their supervisors for a raise after millions of copies have been sold. I fail to see what developers gain from certain characters being top tier or low tier. A developer's primary job is to provide a quality product to consumers, not engage in agendas.
 

NeonGroovyGator

Vampire mommy simp
I am afraid that these theories are rarely ever accurate. Ed Boon's favorite character is Scorpion who sucks according to many players in the Scorpion community. 16 Bit's favorite character is Kitana who was awful when the game was released so she has been receiving nothing but buffs. Dizzy's favorite character is Johnny Cage who was mid tier on release and then super top tier due to Outtake, but he is arguably the most normalized top tier character in the most recent patch. I could go on, but the point is any person can consider these statements and construct any conspiracy theories to support his or her agenda.

Do you know what the developers really want to be good? The game. LOL. So they have a justification to ask their supervisors for a raise after millions of copies have been sold. I fail to see what developers gain from certain characters being top tier or low tier. A developer's primary job is to provide a quality product to consumers, not engage in agendas.
Playing devil's advocate for a bit, what I do agree with that gets brought up a lot is that there might have been some miscomunication between people designing different characters, looking at things like KB requirements and the gap between tools different variations had. But all of that within the limits of common mess-ups designers can make during development, nothing to do with crazy conspiracies to make their favorite characters overpowered.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Playing devil's advocate for a bit, what I do agree with that gets brought up a lot is that there might have been some miscomunication between people designing different characters, looking at things like KB requirements and the gap between tools different variations had. But all of that within the limits of common mess-ups designers can make during development, nothing to do with crazy conspiracies to make their favorite characters overpowered.
Exactly. There are a handful of issues to bring up and criticize (i.e., hitbox inconsistencies, incomplete variations, worthless armor breaks, to name a few). No reason to be conspiratorial.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
I am afraid that these theories are rarely ever accurate. Ed Boon's favorite character is Scorpion who sucks according to many players in the Scorpion community. 16 Bit's favorite character is Kitana who was awful when the game was released so she has been receiving nothing but buffs. Dizzy's favorite character is Johnny Cage who was mid tier on release and then super top tier due to Outtake, but he is arguably the most normalized top tier character in the most recent patch. I could go on, but the point is any person can consider these statements and construct any conspiracy theories to support his or her agenda.

Do you know what the developers really want to be good? The game. LOL. So they have a justification to ask their supervisors for a raise after millions of copies have been sold. I fail to see what developers gain from certain characters being top tier or low tier. A developer's primary job is to provide a quality product to consumers, not engage in agendas.
That is both fair and hard to argue against.

Besides, even if one wanted to go full Pepe Silvia and weave a conspiracy, the meat just isn't thick enough.

It still doesn't explain my Jacqui problem, and why this one character who's been almost universally complained about for many moons now has been given and allowed to keep so many advantages when others were only just factored into the game last patch. But banning is an absolutely ridiculous idea. She is an even bigger enthusiasm-draining pain in the ass than Batgirl in IJ1, and I don't know why you'd want to keep her at a level of strength that would make people drop the game rather than deal with her or pick her up, but she is NOWHERE near a big enough problem to consider banning.
 

Archgamer

Mortal
Johnny has been more present in Top 8's and caused more tournament damage in the last few months then Liu, Cetrion, and Jacqui combined.
Jacqui was getting mass showing when V3 came out and started skyrocketing everywhere at Final Kombat with half the players using Upgraded.

Meanwhile Johnny still has useless KB's, bad bad hitbox issues and lots of highs. And they have the nerve to take away his plus frames and give him the worst armor breaker move in the game too with no compensation whatsoever.

Liu Kang won 3 straight tournaments from Rewind followed by two more from Ninjakilla and all they did was give a small slap with +2 more frames on f4 when he still have more good mids to stagger from. Now compare that to when Johnny was winning to see the discrepancy in the nerfs.

NRS is very selective on who they want good and who they don't care about and I still stand by it. Raiden and Shao bad for a full year. Liu Kang and Jacqui still top 3 or 5 since the beginning. So if you nerf Johnny who was playing MK11 the way its suppose to play, you need to nerf Jacqui just as hard who is playing the game the wrong way.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
I am afraid that these theories are rarely ever accurate. Ed Boon's favorite character is QUAN CHI who sucks according to many players in the Scorpion community. 16 Bit's favorite character is Kitana who was awful when the game was released so she has been receiving nothing but buffs. Dizzy's favorite character is Johnny Cage who was mid tier on release and then super top tier due to Outtake, but he is arguably the most normalized top tier character in the most recent patch. I could go on, but the point is any person can consider these statements and construct any conspiracy theories to support his or her agenda.

Do you know what the developers really want to be good? The game. LOL. So they have a justification to ask their supervisors for a raise after millions of copies have been sold. I fail to see what developers gain from certain characters being top tier or low tier. A developer's primary job is to provide a quality product to consumers, not engage in agendas.
fixed.;)
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Just want to say that not banning Jacqui because we didn't ban more broke stuff before is essentially a sunk cost fallacy. Yeah, we've had it bad before, but if for some reason banning Jacqui would improve the competitive health of the game (which I don't think it would) then she should be banned for those reasons, regardless of whether Kabal, Tanya, Alien, Deadshot, etc were banned. Don't use this as a basis for your argument is all I'm saying.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
It still doesn't explain my Jacqui problem, and why this one character who's been almost universally complained about for many moons now has been given and allowed to keep so many advantages when others were only just factored into the game last patch.
I think the explanation is simple. The developers have a certain design and vision for each character that they stubbornly adhere to,. Sometimes for the better. Other times for the worst. For example, they allowed Deadshot to be Deadshot in Injustice 2 for a whole year until they decided that the character was toxic to the game's meta, balance, and viewership on streams. So they finally took action and essentially erased the character from the game. LOL.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
I think the explanation is simple. The developers have a certain design and vision for each character that they stubbornly adhere to,. Sometimes for the better. Other times for the worst. For example, they allowed Deadshot to be Deadshot in Injustice 2 for a whole year until they decided that the character was toxic to the game's meta, balance, and viewership on streams. So they finally took action and essentially erased the character from the game. LOL.
Maaaaaan. I forgot how long it took them to deal with Deadshot. And then Doctor Fate and BDon came along and ended up coming the whole world anyway.

This is why y'all need to listen to Dave. OG perspective is an important thing to have. Keeps my paranoid ass in check.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Jacqui was getting mass showing when V3 came out and started skyrocketing everywhere at Final Kombat with half the players using Upgraded.

Meanwhile Johnny still has useless KB's, bad bad hitbox issues and lots of highs. And they have the nerve to take away his plus frames and give him the worst armor breaker move in the game too with no compensation whatsoever.

Liu Kang won 3 straight tournaments from Rewind followed by two more from Ninjakilla and all they did was give a small slap with +2 more frames on f4 when he still have more good mids to stagger from. Now compare that to when Johnny was winning to see the discrepancy in the nerfs.
2 things:

1) Yeah, that was before Upgraded was nerfed and most of the Week Two mains dropped her for other characters, like Johnny, Geras, etc. And the Great Liu Kang Takeover was before his nerf as well. Yes they are both still very strong; but we haven't been seeing nearly as much of some characters as we have of Cage, Geras, and others since, and that's what I wanted to point out.

And:

2) I'm not going to focus on SonicFox and Ninja, as both of them are good enough to be outliers, and are significantly better almost everybody with any character they main. (The rest of the field isn't currently stacking Top 8s with Joker, for example.) So among everybody else, Johnny Cage has been one of the clear standouts to this point, and probably the best-represented character in tournament Top 8's overall.
 

@MylesWright_

I'll be back 3ing
Comparing Jacqui to top tiers of previous games is kind of a moot point. The power level of characters in MK11 is lower
If you have a throw that doesn't send someone fullscreen you are already better than half the game
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
This is all a publicity ploy to get her balanced properly, which she has mostly gone by avoiding.

Her buttons and frames are beyond absurd. Just like with Geras we're so numb to how OP she is that we've adjusted and accepted it. Even with some balancing she'd still be top 5 easily just not such a carrying broken character.

Cetrion, who comprises like 5% of the mk11 community at most, lost her standing plus frames. She's had her tele nerfed.
Liu lost his plus frames. Not that he ever needed them.
Geras became punishable. Wow imagine that.

Jacqui has everything you could possibly want in a character across 3 variations. Balance her, the community is doing this to speak up on the matter. Kratos in his post said it himself. It's a publicity ploy. Hope it works too.
 
It's been an ongoing grievance of mine that a large part of the NRS community only plays NRS games and have no clue what the standards for FGs in general are.

Banning Jacqui is absolutely batshit crazy. You don't ban characters unless things get extremely dire. It's an act of last resort, not "this character is OP and I don't play her"
 

MKfanatic98

Primordal
With that said, she shouldn't be ban. But she should be getting some serious nerfs. If Johnny gets it so should she. NRS loves her, Liu Kang and Cetrion. You can tell by the discrepancy of those 3 characters vs the other top tier characters.
I would rather NRS buff everyone else to her caliber so that the game would be little more faster but that also comes with issues too.