Official Killer Frost Apology Thread

[DevilMaySpy]

From most normalized to least normalized.

1. Scorpion (from top 5 to low tier)
2. Cyborg (from top 5 to low tier)
3. Black Adam (from top 3 to mid tier)
4. Killer Frost (from top 5 to mid tier)
5. Batman and Deathstroke (from top 5 to high mid tier)
6. Superman (from the best character in the game to top 10)

Most buffs.

1. The Flash (from high mid tier to top 5)
2. Bane and Sinestro (from mid tier to top 10)
3. Lobo (from low mid tier to high mid tier)

M2Dave with the most rational post in the thread.

 

[SidTheHaze]

Since when does tournament placing have anything to do with how good a character is? Sonicfox is the only person winning anything with batgirl, does that make her not top 5? Does all of chrigG's and Saltface's placings with GA and HQ mean they're top 10 contenders?

You misread what I was saying. I was responding to your post about how some people might not think he is top 5, that could be due to the fact that he hasn't anything since toryuken. some people may think how could this character be top 5 if he cant win anything, results may not have a major impact in tiers but you can't rule them out Completely........btw flash is sitting at the cusp of top 5, he could possibly be replaced by someone in the 5-10....as of right now he is my definitive #5

 

[Rude]

Tym has become 99% talking about perceived, vague, and usually opinionated things about match up charts and 1% about competitive strategy discussion. It's like 6 months away from being trmk.org.

I'm not being negative @Rude, so relax. I'm just hoping that when MKX comes out everyone can get back to strategy and less about who is/was/can'/won't/never could be in the top 5 etc.

No, I agree this time. This place has fallen off.

 

[Treadmill]

Aquaman has not won anything since Theo quit the game. Has Aquaman been demoted to high mid tier? Also, Zod has never won a major tournament. Confirmed mediocre?

Some of you fools need to use your brain once in a while.

The Flash community sold NRS a bill the first three months of the game. He was portrayed as a character who did limited damage and who had to work too hard to get in.

I know right? You'd have to be an IDIOT to think Zod is mediocre....................

 

[JnTonioo]

 

[BaronVonRupert]

KF can get 70-80% guaranteed for a modest 2 bars and beyond that has a large amount of options from her freeze grab that all lead to big damage. She's a pretty good character it's just that she's crippled online and most don't have the insane execution required to pull this stuff off in game, me included.
KF's potential hasn't been shown; she's the C.Viper of this game.

 

[TKB]

You misread what I was saying. I was responding to your post about how some people might not think he is top 5, that could be due to the fact that he hasn't anything since toryuken. some people may think how could this character be top 5 if he cant win anything, results may not have a major impact in tiers but you can't rule them out Completely........btw flash is sitting at the cusp of top 5, he could possibly be replaced by someone in the 5-10....as of right now he is my definitive #5

Fair enough man I misunderstood what you meant. He is in my number 5 spot too although arguing the order of top 5 is pretty much pointless lol

 

[M2Dave]

Fair enough man I misunderstood what you meant. He is in my number 5 spot too although arguing the order of top 5 is pretty much pointless lol

Actually, it is not.

S+ Martian Manhunter
S Aquaman, Batgirl, Zod (probably better match up chart than Batgirl but loses 7:3 to MMH)

 

[ForeverKing]

Lol the notion that Flash still isn't top 5 to some people blows my mind.

I used to think so as well. But Sinestro honestly can be debatable for that spot. Flash and Sinestro are for sure #5 and #6 but it's debatable which is which. It can be debated that Flash loses no matchups, but it can also be debated that Flash loses to Martian and Aquaman. If the latter is the case, it can be debated that Sinestro also only loses to Martian and Aqua but bodies way more characters than Flash

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I used to think so as well. But Sinestro honestly can be debatable for that spot. Flash and Sinestro are for sure #5 and #6 but it's debatable which is which. It can be debated that Flash loses no matchups, but it can also be debated that Flash loses to Martian and Aquaman. If the latter is the case, it can be debated that Sinestro also only loses to Martian and Aqua but bodies way more characters than Flash

Sinestro is 7th. Bane is a better character.

 

[M2Dave]

Sinestro is 7th. Bane is a better character.

 

[ForeverKing]

Sinestro is 7th. Bane is a better character.

Bane isn't on the level of Flash and Sinestro as far as having a balanced matchup chart. Bane loses to Flash Zatanna and Batgirl guaranteed, Martian Lex Zod and others are debatable. Sinestro's and Flash's matchup charts are superior. Bane is like 7-9 territory on the tier list

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Bane isn't on the level of Flash and Sinestro as far as having a balanced matchup chart. Bane loses to Flash Zatanna and Batgirl guaranteed, Martian Lex Zod and others are debatable. Sinestro's and Flash's matchup charts are superior. Bane is like 7-9 territory on the tier list

I'll concede Flash and Zatanna, but I think him losing to Batgirl is debateable. He outfootises her and DESTROYS her for guessing wrong on the cartwheel. It goes without saying that the oki game is also atrocious. I also think that Bane probably dominates as many characters as Sinestro does, if not more.

 

[ForeverKing]

I'll concede Flash and Zatanna, but I think him losing to Batgirl is debateable. He outfootises her and DESTROYS her for guessing wrong on the cartwheel. It goes without saying that the oki game is also atrocious. I also think that Bane probably dominates as many characters as Sinestro does, if not more.

I'm starting to think Martian isn't debatable as well. Jupiter destroys every Bane he plays in tournament 3-0. And when I play my little bro in long sets offline Martian vs Bane the score will usually be like 30-7 me. I guess I'm waiting to play Max in a long set before I decide for sure but it's starting to almost look undeniably Martian's favor

Bane does dominate as much as Sinestro but he also has more guaranteed losing matchups and more debatable losing matchup as well

 

[ForeverKing]

@General M2Dave what do you think about Martian vs Bane after watching me and Franco play a long set offline? I was saying it was 5-5 for so many months but I'm starting finally lean towards Martian

 

[ForeverKing]

Also I apologize for ever thinking Killer Frost could be top 10 post patch. She could be possible top 15 though

 

[Yoaks]

Lol, Dave is such a character deluxe. Every once in a while he takes a break from his usual insanity to form a really well thought out point and I'm like:

My god Olivia Wilde. B=====D~~~~

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Lol oh myles... That all youve got?

 

[Cossner]

Olivia Wilde is really hot.

 

[Youphemism]

I'll concede Flash and Zatanna, but I think him losing to Batgirl is debateable. He outfootises her and DESTROYS her for guessing wrong on the cartwheel. It goes without saying that the oki game is also atrocious. I also think that Bane probably dominates as many characters as Sinestro does, if not more.

He loses to Batgirl, we don't even have to play footsies with him since our plan here is to play as lame as possible which he can't handle amazingly. Bane doesn't even have to guess on cartwheel, he can just armour through the high and low enders and block the overhead due to the option select on cartwheel. But cartwheel gets through his armour too on hit though so he has to be careful.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

KF can get 70-80% guaranteed for a modest 2 bars and beyond that has a large amount of options from her freeze grab that all lead to big damage. She's a pretty good character it's just that she's crippled online and most don't have the insane execution required to pull this stuff off in game, me included.
KF's potential hasn't been shown; she's the C.Viper of this game.

I demand an apology for when I said no KF player would consistently get the grab reset down, and everyone told me it was easy.

Now how many months later and nobody has it down.



Why does everyone blow Myles up? He's totally right about Killer Frost.

Let's look at her weaknesses:

• Zero air control, which is super important in Injustice
  
• Low damage compared to most characters
• Very possibly reactable Vortex (19 frames is very possibly reactable.)
• Zero good footsies tools
• Zero good pressure tools
• No way to get in on characters if she is at a life defecit
• Can't zone against almost all the top tiers (Superman, Martian, Aquaman, maybe Zod?)
• Tied for 4th WORST Forward Dash in the game at 21 frames (Fastest forward dash is 13 frames) (thanks @Laos_boy )
• Terrible jump normals, none are even fast enough to hit off of an instant air dash.
• Low range on everything except for slide, even B3/F3
• Requires meter to go into her vortex

Honestly I can't even list her as having any true strengths aside from her MB Parry (which is admittedly very strong in some matchups) and Iceberg being a relatively good anti zoning tool.

I don't understand why people think she's so good. She lacks so many basic tools for common situations...

Also where are the KF placings? Literally the only post patch KF placing I can think of was Civil War, and that wasn't purely KF right?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I demand an apology for when I said no KF player would consistently get the grab reset down, and everyone told me it was easy.

Now how many months later and nobody has it down.



Why does everyone blow Myles up? He's totally right about Killer Frost.

Let's look at her weaknesses:

• Zero air control, which is super important in Injustice
  
• Low damage compared to most characters
• Very possibly reactable Vortex (19 frames is very possibly reactable.)
• Zero good footsies tools
• Zero good pressure tools
• No way to get in on characters if she is at a life defecit
• Can't zone against almost all the top tiers (Superman, Martian, Aquaman, maybe Zod?)
• Tied for 4th WORST Forward Dash in the game at 21 frames (Fastest forward dash is 13 frames) (thanks @Laos_boy )
• Terrible jump normals, none are even fast enough to hit off of an instant air dash.
• Low range on everything except for slide, even B3/F3
• Requires meter to go into her vortex

Honestly I can't even list her as having any true strengths aside from her MB Parry (which is admittedly very strong in some matchups) and Iceberg being a relatively good anti zoning tool.

I don't understand why people think she's so good. She lacks so many basic tools for common situations...

Also where are the KF placings? Literally the only post patch KF placing I can think of was Civil War, and that wasn't purely KF right?

Khaotik got top 8 with her exclusively at CW.

 

[Laos_boy]

I agree with most. Other than her damage. She does have to work for it but her vortex does 39% and she gets 41% off b1u3 meterless.
111 trait cancel is +10 so i guess you get some kind of mix up.
For her to win she needs to hit a slide guess right once and hold back. But getting in and competing in footsies she pretty meh

I demand an apology for when I said no KF player would consistently get the grab reset down, and everyone told me it was easy.

Now how many months later and nobody has it down.



Why does everyone blow Myles up? He's totally right about Killer Frost.

Let's look at her weaknesses:

• Zero air control, which is super important in Injustice
  
• Low damage compared to most characters
• Very possibly reactable Vortex (19 frames is very possibly reactable.)
• Zero good footsies tools
• Zero good pressure tools
• No way to get in on characters if she is at a life defecit
• Can't zone against almost all the top tiers (Superman, Martian, Aquaman, maybe Zod?)
• Tied for 4th WORST Forward Dash in the game at 21 frames (Fastest forward dash is 13 frames) (thanks @Laos_boy )
• Terrible jump normals, none are even fast enough to hit off of an instant air dash.
• Low range on everything except for slide, even B3/F3
• Requires meter to go into her vortex

Honestly I can't even list her as having any true strengths aside from her MB Parry (which is admittedly very strong in some matchups) and Iceberg being a relatively good anti zoning tool.

I don't understand why people think she's so good. She lacks so many basic tools for common situations...

Also where are the KF placings? Literally the only post patch KF placing I can think of was Civil War, and that wasn't purely KF right?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Khaotik got top 8 with her exclusively at CW.

Okay, did Astronout use her for like one game in that tournament? I think that may have confused me.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I agree with most. Other than her damage. She does have to work for it but her vortex does 39% and she gets 41% off b1u3 meterless.

But neither ending in a Vortex right?