Nw/cage comparisons

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

So since playing cage, I have improved my nw and footsies quite a bit and I wantd to explain why.

Cages game revolves around f3. Wh f3 hits he gets a free f3 again. The opponent is forced to guess when to poke but many times eats a d3. When d3 hits cage gts a free f3 again. This is deadly and leads to massive damage. Other than 11f1 and eh fireball traps he doesn't have any other "frame traps". The other string hesitations are pseudo frame traps and NW has the same thing.

The trade off is cages f33 gets hit confirmed into nut punch for more frame traps and pseudo frame traps. nw f3 gets hit confirmed into 35% or more.

Nw pseudo traps revolve around f3, f31, d3, 122shoulder and wiff punishes. Everything nw has is safe so it's easy to counter when you creat space.

The fun thing is that d3 on hit gives him +10 on crouch hit. On standong hit he is at +3 so the opponent has 1 frame to poke out so its still practicaly free. So after a f3 you wait for F31 then poke but I just did f3 and get the d3 to hit before you poke. Then I get another f3 check. I can also throw. Everything makes the opponent guess wrong by letting go of block early. When they do I get a combo.

One thing I like doing is 122 shoulder. Shoulder is not duckable if 122 is blockedand is only -3 on block with space. I can dash back and b2 or do 122 again. I can also bait a reptile dash or other specials and punish accordingly. Not to mention with all this pressure they need to worry About lightning. I'm also at perfect range for a d4 and they are already standing from the 122 string so it will hit more likely than not.

Last thing. My other new favorite thing is dash in standing 1 then dash back. The 1 makes them block because they can't know when you will do 1221 or 122 shoulder. If it his, confirm into combo. If they are blocking to much you get eh lightning. You can also do it to bait a freeze or projectile and reflect.

Overall my point is that he is a STRONG wiff punisher with above average footsies in this game but it takes high intelligce and fundamentals to play him well. I've been playing a bunch of characters lately and I keep going back to nw.

 

[Big D]

So since playing cage, I have improved my nw and footsies quite a bit and I wantd to explain why.

Cages game revolves around f3. Wh f3 hits he gets a free f3 again. The opponent is forced to guess when to poke but many times eats a d3. When d3 hits cage gts a free f3 again. This is deadly and leads to massive damage. Other than 11f1 and eh fireball traps he doesn't have any other "frame traps". The other string hesitations are pseudo frame traps and NW has the same thing.

The trade off is cages f33 gets hit confirmed into nut punch for more frame traps and pseudo frame traps. nw f3 gets hit confirmed into 35% or more.

Nw pseudo traps revolve around f3, f31, d3, 122shoulder and wiff punishes. Everything nw has is safe so it's easy to counter when you creat space.

The fun thing is that d3 on hit gives him +10 on crouch hit. On standong hit he is at +3 so the opponent has 1 frame to poke out so its still practicaly free. So after a f3 you wait for F31 then poke but I just did f3 and get the d3 to hit before you poke. Then I get another f3 check. I can also throw. Everything makes the opponent guess wrong by letting go of block early. When they do I get a combo.

One thing I like doing is 122 shoulder. Shoulder is not duckable if 122 is blockedand is only -3 on block with space. I can dash back and b2 or do 122 again. I can also bait a reptile dash or other specials and punish accordingly. Not to mention with all this pressure they need to worry About lightning. I'm also at perfect range for a d4 and they are already standing from the 122 string so it will hit more likely than not.

Last thing. My other new favorite thing is dash in standing 1 then dash back. The 1 makes them block because they can't know when you will do 1221 or 122 shoulder. If it his, confirm into combo. If they are blocking to much you get eh lightning. You can also do it to bait a freeze or projectile and reflect.

Overall my point is that he is a STRONG wiff punisher with above average footsies in this game but it takes high intelligce and fundamentals to play him well. I've been playing a bunch of characters lately and I keep going back to nw.

I am loving the f3 mind games. It doesnt work as much on only like 3 characters that have fast normals or specials, like Kung Lao or Sektor. Even then, it is still manageable for a short amount of time and then going for a throw. It does fucking WONDERS on Kenshi. They constantly try to EX charge me away, but my D3 eats their bar almost every time.

As for the "dash in standing 1 then dash back," I have never really thought about doing it but I cant see how that can be more productive than doing a block string and then backing off.

 

[AK BeerGuyEd]

As for the "dash in standing 1 then dash back," I have never really thought about doing it but I cant see how that can be more productive than doing a block string and then backing off.

No NW expert as you and Fly are, but I think that situation would be great for some EX Lightning mind games. Dash back let the lightning fly because they are busy blocking thinking a full block string is coming. Once you do that then mind games are all over the place since they will no longer be able to just sit there and block.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

No NW expert as you and Fly are, but I think that situation would be great for some EX Lightning mind games. Dash back let the lightning fly because they are busy blocking thinking a full block string is coming. Once you do that then mind games are all over the place since they will no longer be able to just sit there and block.

That is exactly right Ed.

Honestly I started doing this because I would dash in 1221 and get wiff punished by foxy grandpa. So when you get wiff punished with 21f2 or f33nut punch as often as I have, you find a way to get around it. So as they are backing up or blocking they eat a eh lightning. That's when they start jumping or intact eating the full 122 when they don't expect it. Then hit confirm into axe for a combo.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I am loving the f3 mind games. It doesnt work as much on only like 3 characters that have fast normals or specials, like Kung Lao or Sektor. Even then, it is still manageable for a short amount of time and then going for a throw. It does fucking WONDERS on Kenshi. They constantly try to EX charge me away, but my D3 eats their bar almost every time.

As for the "dash in standing 1 then dash back," I have never really thought about doing it but I cant see how that can be more productive than doing a block string and then backing off.

It also opens up shoulder. They see standing 1 then they stand up to avoid the overheads in 1221. Then as they block or back up you get a shoulder.

 

[ripcrowley]

nw is for nubs

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

nw is for nubs

Look who decided to show...lol

 

[ripcrowley]

Lol I dont want to be left out! Not sure about your backdashing theory as I have never done it besides for lightning which is risky. 122 into shoulder sounds useful and im going to steal it lol. lately I been doing 122 but not finishing with hatchet like they expect and I follow it up with a d1 hachet. Also I do the combo 234 and with the pushback I try for a ex lightning or a charge. its not one of his well known moves so its good at throwing people off

 

[Big D]

BeerGuyEd L0rdoftheFLY I understand the concept, but here is my theory as to why I think it isnt worth the risk. When you dash up and do a standing 1, your opponent (usually regardless of skill level) is now alert at what your doing. Being that the startup for lightning/Lightning is noticeable, they have the ability to get you before it comes out. Depending on your distance, this could mean a full combo punish, which is NOT okay for Nightwolf. Especially for those that play Nightwolf or are familiar with the matchup, using this tactic against them doesnt sound efficient at all. However, I still have not tested this out for myself. Once I test it out I will be able to share my experiences, be it success or failure.

If I am wrong as to what this strategy is, please clarify it for me. Right now I understand it as dashing in, whiff a standing 1, dashing back, and Lightning.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

BeerGuyEd L0rdoftheFLY
If I am wrong as to what this strategy is, please clarify it for me. Right now I understand it as dashing in, whiff a standing 1, dashing back, and Lightning.

It isn't so cookie cutter. The idea is to commit them to block. I all you do is standing 1 dash back eh lightning you will get blown up. But let me paint you a picture...

Nw has the life lead and cage is trying to get in. I've conditioned him with 1221 122 shoulder and b221 and now he dash blocks with respect. I no do dash in standing 1 at jump distance, he instinctively blocks. Then I do eh lightning. It works IF you condition them. It's not a matter of "let me see if this works". It works under the right conditions. I wouldn't use it on iaf characters though. But I've been playing foxy and it tends to work on his characters

 

[Big D]

It isn't so cookie cutter. The idea is to commit them to block. I all you do is standing 1 dash back eh lightning you will get blown up. But let me paint you a picture...

Nw has the life lead and cage is trying to get in. I've conditioned him with 1221 122 shoulder and b221 and now he dash blocks with respect. I no do dash in standing 1 at jump distance, he instinctively blocks. Then I do eh lightning. It works IF you condition them. It's not a matter of "let me see if this works". It works under the right conditions. I wouldn't use it on iaf characters though. But I've been playing foxy and it tends to work on his characters

Ahh I see what your saying. NOW it makes sense to me lol. Before I could have sworn you meant that you literally just do a standing 1 and hope they stay blocking when you do the EX lightning. It sounds like this tactic is for late in the match, which is great, but it doesnt sound like it can work more than twice within an entire set. That being said, it would need to be used cautiously.

 

[Z-911-Z]

F3 is such a great tool honestly, it actually really helps my ass at times against Mileena where it sometimes stuffs her d4 into full combo.

Now if only it would hit low...

 

[Mr. Mileena]

The main difference between cage and NW is that NW's f3 when blocked (ducked or standing) does not grant random advantage, meaning the opponent can jump out as an option.

Night wolf's f3 is 11 frames and is -4 on block, while cage's f3 is 9 frames and neutral on block, and randomly grants random frame advantage which prevents jump outs.

Should one be hit on a failed jump out in terms of fighting nightwolf, it isn't as deadly as cage, because a mistimed jump out vs cage will leave you in yet again another reset facing more pressure, nightwolf's pressure just isn't on par with cage.

 

[Big D]

The main difference between cage and NW is that NW's f3 when blocked (ducked or standing) does not grant random advantage, meaning the opponent can jump out as an option.

Night wolf's f3 is 11 frames and is -4 on block, while cage's f3 is 9 frames and neutral on block, and randomly grants random frame advantage which prevents jump outs.

Should one be hit on a failed jump out in terms of fighting nightwolf, it isn't as deadly as cage, because a mistimed jump out vs cage will leave you in yet again another reset facing more pressure, nightwolf's pressure just isn't on par with cage.

This is all understood, its just another little tool to help NW out. There really is no comparison when concerning Cage, but its something.

 

[Z-911-Z]

We love Nightwolf and want to make this character work, too much fun playing this character. Much better than crying for buffs that's for sure. xP

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Do you find cage to be more prone to being conditioned?
I find cage players have trouble keeping up until the corner draws near.
Cage is like a raging bull and I'm a matador

 

[Big D]

We love Nightwolf and want to make this character work, too much fun playing this character. Much better than crying for buffs that's for sure. xP

We have 6-packs on our chests, crying just is not an option. The 6 pack is OP in itself!

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Do you find cage to be more prone to being conditioned?
I find cage players have trouble keeping up until the corner draws near.
Cage is like a raging bull and I'm a matador

Cage has to dash block and without a good Projectile or a reason to jump he is much more likely to be hit with eh lightning.

@bigd
Yes sparingly but if I wait till he has no meter and get that 32% toward the end of a match I'm good.

 

[trustinme]

loving the ideas in this thread guys,its great to have the best nightwolf players opinions on set ups and pressure options,loving it!

 

[Big D]

L0rdoftheFLY Very true. It sounds a bit risky overall but if it hits when he has no meter, it will be SO worth it lol. Without practicing it I can tell that some characters can be harder to use it on than others. Like, Jax can do his dash punch on reaction to get away, Cyrax can probably trade a net on reaction (depending on distance) which would atleast stop us from following up, Quan MIGHT be able to EX teleport if he reacts in time, etc. But the best part is that without the experience of learning to stay away, this will all be hindsight to them after they take all that damage a few times.

 

[Zwooosh]

Isn't nw's f3 -4 or something like that on block though? It's not really the same as the omnipotent knee.

 

[IKizzLE]

Not a NW player but I like how the top 2 NW players can have civilized discussions about their character and exchange tech and ideas. I wish all the character forums were more like this instead of the trolling.

 

[Big D]

Ifroyo It suuuuuuuuuure is...like I said before, there is no comparison when considering Cage, but NW now has a little extra tool to use.

IKizzLE Being the very few that we are, there is no room for hostility towards each other . What forums argue with each other though? I hear rumors but nothing more.

 

[Z-911-Z]

The smaller a community is, the more there's usually a bond between them. Not to sound corny or anything, but it's usually how it goes.

Nightbros before hoes.

 

[IKizzLE]

Ifroyo It suuuuuuuuuure is...like I said before, there is no comparison when considering Cage, but NW now has a little extra tool to use.

IKizzLE Being the very few that we are, there is no room for hostility towards each other . What forums argue with each other though? I hear rumors but nothing more.

Every forum always has people discrediting tech or patronizing other players. And others just have people shitting on their own character instead of figuring stuff out. For example, the day I see DJT and Tom Brady discuss tech with the rest of the SubZero forum is the day I drop Sektor.