Noob Saibot General Discussion Thread

[Plays2_MX]

BeyondToxin is messin with Seeing Double on stream, I'm def thinking this variation is viable, but people will adjust to blocking low.
My one issue is that damn ghost ball. Most of good Seeing Double damage is NOT able to be breakawayed. So why the F does this variation have ghost ball anyways? What's the purpose? Be better with regular spirit ball honestly.

Does he stream on Twitch or something else? I only know his YT channel.

 

[Wetdoba]

So the travel speed of slide being slower a bit is actually a buff cus it makes it more active at the end so its safer when spaced right. Here it is being -8 on its own lol

 

[OceanOne]

Any new mixup options at the corner with Seeing Double? I mean we usually are very predictable going for strings that start high and goes mid. I'm dabbling standing 4 into slide (amp) and it seems kinda okay, it's good if you hit the opponent but it's also fine if you whiff it because the slide is low ofc. If you can't be too close to the opponent though because the slide amp will whiff.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

lol Seeing double has the same issue as Dark Sabbath in that there is zero reason to ever not block low. Ever.

Ther eisn't a mixup there. He's just safe off the amp. MU knowledge will dictate, but THe amount of times you actually have to hit someone in that variation is incredibly high, knowing you don't have a projectile that can trade in a variation meant to toss out projectiles.

I'll never understand NRS>

 

[OceanOne]

It's much easier to do damage with F221 though, and it adds up both in damage and Shadow Move count.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Do you think they intended all shadow moves, including shadow moves IN STRINGS, to count... and then removed it and just have forgotten about the requirement?

The more I think about it, the more and more I think its the case.

 

[OceanOne]

Maybe they thought it would be too good. I've been getting it consistently in the second round. It's doable.

 

[xisvicious]

lol Seeing double has the same issue as Dark Sabbath in that there is zero reason to ever not block low. Ever.

Ther eisn't a mixup there. He's just safe off the amp. MU knowledge will dictate, but THe amount of times you actually have to hit someone in that variation is incredibly high, knowing you don't have a projectile that can trade in a variation meant to toss out projectiles.

I'll never understand NRS>

You can get mixups with his 112 either do the overhead or buff into is low.

 

[Dante]

It's a quite safe trash tier mixup that's hitconfirmable and you got nothing to lose other than 1bar.

 

[Hollow]

I still think even with the shadow slide buff, the variation is still weaker than the other one overall. If you catch someone with 113 and they don't meter burn the teleslam, you get to end in the fireball to put you at plus and go for 212 or a grab or back 1. Either way, you're walking away with minimum 40% every time you land a hit and have a bar.

I was playing Kustom Kombat with the Shadow Slide instead of the Sickle Scythe and Noob is so much stronger. Combo paths are better and you're able to zone way more effectively. Its so good and so much fun.

 

[Sanjo]

I think both variations are very solid and plays differently. With seeing double, I tend to play a more keep away/ zoning game. With dark sabbath, I'm much more in aggro mode. I like both gameplays so I'm pretty happy with the patch.

 

[Dante]

Sabbath is better at zoning so idk

 

[Sanjo]

Sabbath is better at zoning so idk

You are saying that because of the fireball? I think it's inferior to shadow slide as a zoning tool as it can be ducked and punished. However, it's very good offensively with the +5 restand.

 

[Hollow]

You are saying that because of the fireball? I think it's inferior to shadow slide as a zoning tool as it can be ducked and punished. However, it's very good offensively with the +5 restand.

It goes full screen and is really fast/does good damage. The slide is only a mid screen tool, and whilst still strong, i'm not sure its as good as the fireball overall.

 

[Sanjo]

It goes full screen and is really fast/does good damage. The slide is only a mid screen tool, and whilst still strong, i'm not sure its as good as the fireball overall.

Full screen zoning, unless you've got real tools like Cetrion or Shang is not very effective. The best range is a bit out of mid range, like Ryu from SF for instance. However, with its 90 damage, it does help in fireball wars as most fireball deals 60. Then again, if the opponent is fireball happy, air teleslam will put them down.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Full screen zoning, unless you've got real tools like Cetrion or Shang is not very effective. The best range is a bit out of mid range, like Ryu from SF for instance. However, with its 90 damage, it does help in fireball wars as most fireball deals 60. Then again, if the opponent is fireball happy, air teleslam will put them down.

The hilarious thing is that the shadows go away on a bad trade, so you NEVER can really trade.

I hate this aspect of Noobs game and would concede EVERY single point you've all made for Seeing Double if the shadows never went away and he could trade.

Fact of the matter is that they do go away and seeing double sounds more like a pressure variation than Dark Sabbath. You always need to be in the range of slide, you always need to find ways to push buttons.

Seems counter intuitive.

 

[Plays2_MX]

You can get mixups with his 112 either do the overhead or buff into is low.

A mixup similar like MKX Possessed Kenshi? Nice.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Does he stream on Twitch or something else? I only know his YT channel.

Yeah Twitch

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1159715948921851904

Corner set up with S.D. utilizing the slow ass ghost ball.

My first impression of S.D. last night is the shadow slide is easy to get right now but people will adjust and it will be difficult to get off soon. Has to be used surgically, precisely, just like D.S, tools

 

[OceanOne]

Sure if you're doing the Slide in neutral people will adjust but just like the B3 that some love to say "you just have to block low against Noob!" it only doesn't work in paper (and probably pro matches) but people still gotta stand to move and B3 (even into Tele Slam in Black Sabbath) works wonders. What I mean by that is the possibility of the slide in the neutral keeps the opponent in check and if it connects it does good damage and counts as 2 shadow moves. The pressure is a bit more real than we want to believe. We should play against a good Noob player using Seeing Double to really feel it. F221 was always an amazing move and now it ends in 24% (if I'm not mistaken) and 2 shadow moves each time, the KB has been happening constantly in the second round.

I'm not saying that it's better than BS or even that we should "main" Seeing Double, but it's a viable option now, it's fun to play, cool to look at and spices things up a bit.

 

[Sanjo]

Sure if you're doing the Slide in neutral people will adjust but just like the B3 that some love to say "you just have to block low against Noob!" it only doesn't work in paper (and probably pro matches) but people still gotta stand to move and B3 (even into Tele Slam in Black Sabbath) works wonders. What I mean by that is the possibility of the slide in the neutral keeps the opponent in check and if it connects it does good damage and counts as 2 shadow moves. The pressure is a bit more real than we want to believe. We should play against a good Noob player using Seeing Double to really feel it. F221 was always an amazing move and now it ends in 24% (if I'm not mistaken) and 2 shadow moves each time, the KB has been happening constantly in the second round.

I'm not saying that it's better than BS or even that we should "main" Seeing Double, but it's a viable option now, it's fun to play, cool to look at and spices things up a bit.

25% my friend! And I agree with you. This move make the opponent's approach very careful and hesitant. And when they freeze, you can mount an offense.

 

[OceanOne]

So the problem I've been running into after throwing away 300 hundred points playing with Seeing Double is:

- If you get outplayed in the first round you're at a huge disadvantage because the game is on the line and you don't have enough Shadow Moves.

- As weird as it may sound it's not that easy counting the Shadow Moves while you're thinking about the match, trying to guess right and all that stuff, so you'll very often find yourself in a situation that adds both the first 2 topics and it goes like this: You get outplayed in the first round but you still get 4 Shadow Moves. The second round starts, you get a slide where the opponent blocks the first one but gets hit by the second, so the count is in 5 when you get a punish and get 2 more, 7.
You get a F221, Slide in the neutral and ups the count to 9. The thing is... Both characters are almost in Fatal Blow zone so you desperately need that KB to pop but because you're playing a Sub Zero (for example) and you have to guess right, react to his stuff and get your combos right you lost the count and suddenly you get a Shadow Tackle Amped and it doesn't happen... It's insanely frustrating and it feels like you worked with what you had the entire match just to hit that clutch KB and you end up losing the match without ever being able to use it.

- Third and last topic, not having the Air Sickle Throw feels very weird. I literally feel like I'm playing naked. I don't know If I rely on it too much with my Black Sabbath play style, even though I only use it when guessing if the guy is going to throw a fireball or hit a button on the neutral. Still, it feels like the character loses a lot of his mobility.

That's it, I didn't changed my mind about the variation yet, I think it definitely has potential since I did won some pretty dope matches and when I dominate in the first round it's a guaranteed KB on the second or third if needed be. Like I said above, I definitely feel like I'm more exposed because instead of being defensive on mid range (like I usually am playing BS) I'm trying to keep the opponent in check by using the Slide which leaves me open for jump ins, teleports and stuff.

 

[Blade4693]

As weird as it may sound it's not that easy counting the Shadow Moves while you're thinking about the match

I actually came here to post about this. In a kasual match where you might not be playing too seriously keeping track isn't as hard nor that important but when I was trying SD in KL today I couldn't keep count for the life of me, lost track multiple times because of how many other things my mind is thinking/focusing on throughout the match.

It would be cool if they could add some sort of visual indicator to let you know you have the 10 stacked up or something. If the number was smaller there would be no need but when you are doing slide, ex slide, tackle, anti air etc. and some might connect and some don't it can be hard to keep count in the middle of an intense match imo.

 

[OceanOne]

Here's a match against a Demi God Shao Kahn from my region (South America):

It was kinda rough due to the lack of experience against Shao Kahn (was feeling the pressure at the start) and muscle memory, some times I'm still thinking what buttons I have to press in combos even though it's just a different finisher for the same combos BS has.

Since I'm already here, have you guys tried extending 212? I could only manage to connect F221 into Slide but it's kinda iffy.
PS: Yes I regretted every time I tried Ghost Ball against him but kept doing because I don't know........

 

[Sanjo]

Noob has 4 easy KBs you can land very often: d2, b1 1+3 2, f.grab and b.grab (although keeping one of them grabs is a good idea for increased mind game)
1 almost unusable: b3 1+3
And 1 "in a pinch ", the 3rd round "shadow10" KB : amp shadow tackle
You don't need to count how many shadow moves you do if you decide to keep this one as a last resort. I don't think that one should build their strategy around landing that KB as soon as possible. Noob has enough firepower to kill in 2 rounds.