Nightwolf Matchup Discussion Thread

[Konqrr]

I realize that there might be a matchup thread already in this forum, but the point of this thread is to discuss matchups to make the Matchup Chart as accurate as possible.

The Matchup Chart thread:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?3075-Mortal-Kombat-(2011)-Matchup-Chart

When you discuss or list what you think the matchups are, please do so in alphabetical order. Also, they should be listed in either whole numbers or .5 notations.

The current Matchup Chart for Nightwolf is as follows:
6-4 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs Cyrax
6-4 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
6-4 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
5-5 vs Kabal
6-4 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
3-7 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
6-4 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
7-3 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
6-4 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
6-4 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
6-4 vs Smoke
6-4 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

Agree? Disagree? DISCUSS!

 

[leek]

5-5 vs Sub-Zero

I feel like this is more or less 6-4 for nightwolf, You lock down any ice-balls and Ex-shoulder goes through clone.. if he hides behind clone but doesn't throw iceballs for fear of reflect you have 50/50 of lightning on him, or you can arrow spam to try and bait a slide, which you punish with full combo on block..

 

[McNasty]

6-4 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs Cyraxvery close to being in nw's favor
6-4 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
6-4 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
5-5 vs Kabal
6-4 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
7-3 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs RaidenAlmost a 3-7
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
6-4 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
6-4 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
6-4 vs Smoke
6-4 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Stryker
4-6 vs Sub-Zero

 

[leek]

4-6 vs Sub-Zero

why?

 

[McNasty]

sub zero can do nothing and win. NW has to have meter to win this one its a big waiting game lightening and arrows are combo'd/slid on reaction. NW doesnt have any pokes to stop 224 clone sub zero can mix up regular ice shot with ex. invincible wake up shoulder will be baited and punished on knock down. when it gets to the corner sub takes it.

 

[Nick T.]

sub zero can do nothing and win. NW has to have meter to win this one its a big waiting game lightening and arrows are combo'd/slid on reaction. NW doesnt have any pokes to stop 224 clone sub zero can mix up regular ice shot with ex. invincible wake up shoulder will be baited and punished on knock down. when it gets to the corner sub takes it.

Just to add to this since i play McNasty a ton in this match and he can basically write a book about this match haha....

To be fair, both characters fuck each other up in the corner, both characters have the right offensive tools, etc. IMO, it comes down to match pace as a whole. It's very similar to the Sub/JC match where Nightwolf HAS to use meter to get in. Sub can just get a lead and then just do absolutely nothing. Just wait. All of NW's specials from far away are easily punishable and don't offer any real options for him.

I also feel that Sub's offense is also a BIT safer. If NW does forward 312, or 212?? I think it is, I have a safe clone setup right there because of spacing. Even after hatchet, I can clone. So from there Sub gains momentum and NW has to just wait.

But honestly I could see how it could be 5-5, but in long sets it becomes a 4-6. It's all about how the match looks in the long run aside from the mindless rushdown shenanigans.

 

[leek]

Hmm alright. Guess on paper it seemed nice but I haven't played against many subs except online with nightwolf, shows how credible I am

 

[spongebob]

Kenshi's probably a bad matchup for him at range NW can't do anything at all against TKS, arrow is too slow on start up and so is lightning which will even sometimes pass through him as he does TKS. All he has is EX shoulder so you have to burn meter but Kenshi can then EX rising karma giving him a combo.

 

[Crackpipe]

I disagree you on the Kenshi matchup. I think NW has the advantage and is at worst 5-5. His lighting is pretty effective when you need to get in. From my experience Kenshi players hesitate for a second trying to anticipate where to TKS. This is when I start spamming lightning to some degree. I use shoulders to close the distance. Once NW gets in and keeps applying pressure, Kenshi has a hard time breaking out.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I disagree you on the Kenshi matchup. I think NW has the advantage and is at worst 5-5. His lighting is pretty effective when you need to get in. From my experience Kenshi players hesitate for a second trying to anticipate where to TKS. This is when I start spamming lightning to some degree. I use shoulders to close the distance. Once NW gets in and keeps applying pressure, Kenshi has a hard time breaking out.

Agreed but I still think a good kenshi has the edge. I mean have you ever played a real good kenshi? I havnt. I don't think there are any right now.

 

[Konqrr]

sub zero can do nothing and win. NW has to have meter to win this one its a big waiting game lightening and arrows are combo'd/slid on reaction. NW doesnt have any pokes to stop 224 clone sub zero can mix up regular ice shot with ex. invincible wake up shoulder will be baited and punished on knock down. when it gets to the corner sub takes it.

Sub has to be careful using 212~clone or 224~clone against a NW with meter. It's easy to confirm he has done the clone and use :en Shoulder to punish him. I see your point though, it seems difficult for NW.

Sub rapes everyone but Raiden in the corner...

 

[McNasty]

Sub has to be careful using 212~clone or 224~clone against a NW with meter. It's easy to confirm he has done the clone and use :en Shoulder to punish him. I see your point though, it seems difficult for NW.

Sub rapes everyone but Raiden in the corner...

even after the ex shoulder though your down a bar and still at a spacing that favors sub.

 

[PANDEMlC]

How does Nightwolf deal with Johnny, Johnny has godlike fast strings and nightwolf doesn't.

 

[HadesWTF]

I have to disagree with some of this. From my personal experiences I feel like I have a slight disadvantage against Johnny and Liu Kang, while I feel like I have a slight advantage against Kung Lao.

I just feel like those 2 have a speed advantage and lots of safe strings to counter pressure with.

Kung Lao.....well....his hat just isn't as great as everybody thinks it is.

 

[SektorCyrax]

I have to disagree with some of this. From my personal experiences I feel like I have a slight disadvantage against Johnny and Liu Kang, while I feel like I have a slight advantage against Kung Lao.

I just feel like those 2 have a speed advantage and lots of safe strings to counter pressure with.

Kung Lao.....well....his hat just isn't as great as everybody thinks it is.

noone has a slight advantage on kung lao.

I believe you aren't playing competent Laos.

 

[HadesWTF]

noone has a slight advantage on kung lao.

I believe you aren't playing competent Laos.

Kung Lao is seriously the most flowchart character in the game. They are pretty easy to beat unless they just dive kick the hell out of you. I'm not playing PL level Kung Lao, but decent and above average Lao players are very predictable.

 

[SektorCyrax]

Kung Lao is seriously the most flowchart character in the game. They are pretty easy to beat unless they just dive kick the hell out of you. I'm not playing PL level Kung Lao, but decent and above average Lao players are very predictable.

matchup discussion and info are only reliable in high level tourney play where the players are equally amazing.

otherwise in mid-level play matchups dont count, its matters who the better player is not the better character.

if that makes since. When were talking matchups were talking about each character played at their max potential

 

[shoshinsha]

Not sure if this has all been reconciled, but I have a hard time buying some of these:

4-6 Kitana: Why? His strings are better, he can easily reflect her ranged game on reaction. I don't get it.

3-7 Kung Lao: This seems extreme. I would've said 5-5 before looking at the chart, but I could see 4-6 for a couple of reasons. I can't think of anything overwhelming that makes it 3-7.

4-6 Reptile: Before seeing the chart, I would've said this was 6-4 in NW's favor. Maybe I play bad reptiles, but this is seriously one of the easiest matchups for me. Sure, you can't really use lightning, but Reptile's ranged game is out the window, and his normals are SLOWWWW.

I'm not sure about the Sub match. It's always felt about even to me. Sub is really just terrible at range, in my experience, but others seem to be more knowledgeable.

I do, however, think Cyber Sub may have a slight advantage. His strings about match NW's in utility, and he makes some of NW's normal advantages less... advantageous.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Not sure if this has all been reconciled, but I have a hard time buying some of these:

4-6 Kitana: Why? His strings are better, he can easily reflect her ranged game on reaction. I don't get it.

3-7 Kung Lao: This seems extreme. I would've said 5-5 before looking at the chart, but I could see 4-6 for a couple of reasons. I can't think of anything overwhelming that makes it 3-7.

4-6 Reptile: Before seeing the chart, I would've said this was 6-4 in NW's favor. Maybe I play bad reptiles, but this is seriously one of the easiest matchups for me. Sure, you can't really use lightning, but Reptile's ranged game is out the window, and his normals are SLOWWWW.

I'm not sure about the Sub match. It's always felt about even to me. Sub is really just terrible at range, in my experience, but others seem to be more knowledgeable.

I do, however, think Cyber Sub may have a slight advantage. His strings about match NW's in utility, and he makes some of NW's normal advantages less... advantageous.

Kit does have advantage cause iaf can go above nw head making reflect useless. And her strings are better

Kung Lao is not 7-3. I wish someone would freaking change that already. 6-4 please.

4-6 reptile is correct.reptile has cross up pressure nw has trouble with as well as eh slow ball for safe pressure...it's just a grind.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Also C. sub is is 5-5 or 6-4 nw. Parry gets stuffed...

 

[shoshinsha]

I won't argue about the rest, but I still don't see the Reptile thing. For every bar he spends on an ex slow ball to come in and pressure, you can spend a bar on ex shoulder to stop it.

Also, L0rdoftheFLY: Where did the NW image in your sig come from? I've been looking for a good, high-res image of NW for wallpaper material.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Google images...lol

 

[shoshinsha]

Oh... it's from his ending, right?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Yes my bad I thought u were talking about my avatar...lol wiidoshi on MKU made it for me. Yes it's from NW ending.

 

[csquared587]

Any tips on the Kabal matchup? I have trouble getting in with his ia fireballs and non reflectable groundsaw. I cant seem to build enough meter to consistently ex charge through it. His pressure game also locks me up with his dash cancels.

Also, if anyone wants to touch on the Johny Cage and Milllena matchups it would be appreciated.