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Strategy Nightwing General Discussion (1.06 and on)

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
So while I was in the lab proving NW players wrong again, I hit B3 off EF 5/5 times. Shit is cake, breh

What's your excuse NW mains?
 

AssassiN

Premium
Premium Supporter
I'm going to comment here on the whole "NW frame data" discussion that was going on in the BG's MU thread. There was no need for it there and it was beyond stupid.
I saw @GuamoKun linking the wiki-page of the frame-data, I've pointed this out a while ago to one of the site mods but the frame-data in the wiki isn't 100% correct: showing Staff D1 is +5 on block(pre-nerf), having Staff J1 as U3D3, ...
Staff D1 is +3 on block, Escrima D1 is around +5 on block(can't remember) and F2 has a 10 frame-startup. This has been set in stone since day 0 patch(except for the Staff D1 nerf).
NW doesn't have any block-infinites, one that comes close(and is a gimmick) is repeating 112, U3 in the corner.

It's like @HeroesNZ said, why do you think NW players in general follow-up D1 with F213?
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
Just finished watching these and posted in RM PM. You didn't play it poorly. Every match you pretty much had the life lead but you dropped or missed IAWD or missed a set up giving him momentum and a chance to catch up.

I play this super lame. I end all combos in SS and check him with constant GP. I don't ever go in unless I have to or unless I need to switch sides. I always mb flip kick on block strings so I can safely switch sides or get the combo. I make him chase me the entire game. You can stuff all his wakeups, ALL OF THEM, with GP from jump distance or farther. Even MB hook charge's armor doesn't activate instantly giving you a window to stuff it.

If you master stuffing his wakeups, he can never get in for free. He should take hella damage chasing you down to catch you. While in chase, he is open to b2 flip kick mb to switch sides and possibly you catch him for damage. (practice getting good damage off of b2 flip kick mb on hit. I do b2 mb flip kick b2 GS or GS cancel). Other than knowing how to play defense against lobo and his tic setups, thats what I do.

I need to play Decay.
 
Just finished watching these and posted in RM PM. You didn't play it poorly. Every match you pretty much had the life lead but you dropped or missed IAWD or missed a set up giving him momentum and a chance to catch up.

I play this super lame. I end all combos in SS and check him with constant GP. I don't ever go in unless I have to or unless I need to switch sides. I always mb flip kick on block strings so I can safely switch sides or get the combo. I make him chase me the entire game. You can stuff all his wakeups, ALL OF THEM, with GP from jump distance or farther. Even MB hook charge's armor doesn't activate instantly giving you a window to stuff it.

If you master stuffing his wakeups, he can never get in for free. He should take hella damage chasing you down to catch you. While in chase, he is open to b2 flip kick mb to switch sides and possibly you catch him for damage. (practice getting good damage off of b2 flip kick mb on hit. I do b2 mb flip kick b2 GS or GS cancel). Other than knowing how to play defense against lobo and his tic setups, thats what I do.

I need to play Decay.
Whats your set up for stuffing wake ups with ground pound? or do you just...

Wing it



So it seems like most of the time youre in staff stancce zoning with ground pound. I'll try more of that next time. I'll also look into those flip kick set ups
 

Decay

King of the Bill
I can react to flip kick cross up offline. Online it is a little more godlike than it is supposed to be. I think lobo has a hard time against a particularly zone heavy NW though, and if you're in staff stance I can't really poke out of things easily. I can only react to the mixups and react to flying grayson and down 2 it. But other than that it's like you out-footsie me and Fly, staff spin is a pretty good wake-up lol you can neutral jump it and punish, you get knocked down by the back of it
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
Whats your set up for stuffing wake ups with ground pound? or do you just...

Wing it



So it seems like most of the time youre in staff stancce zoning with ground pound. I'll try more of that next time. I'll also look into those flip kick set ups
Just go into practice mode and set Lobo to random wakeup and practice your bnb into GP. It is soooooo easy to stuff from the right distance. It forces him to try and jump or back dash. both are what you want him to do. don't get me wrong...I use LOTS of wing dings and GS. Gs is just to get him to jump but wing dings all day. Just on knock down I usually prefer to be in staff to stuff wakeups and to get in that extra chip. It trains them to block on get up giving you other options.

I can react to flip kick cross up offline. Online it is a little more godlike than it is supposed to be. I think lobo has a hard time against a particularly zone heavy NW though, and if you're in staff stance I can't really poke out of things easily. I can only react to the mixups and react to flying grayson and down 2 it. But other than that it's like you out-footsie me and Fly, staff spin is a pretty good wake-up lol you can neutral jump it and punish, you get knocked down by the back of it
I know it is...:cool:
I just like to troll:DOGE
 

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
I can react to flip kick cross up offline. Online it is a little more godlike than it is supposed to be. I think lobo has a hard time against a particularly zone heavy NW though, and if you're in staff stance I can't really poke out of things easily. I can only react to the mixups and react to flying grayson and down 2 it. But other than that it's like you out-footsie me and Fly, staff spin is a pretty good wake-up lol you can neutral jump it and punish, you get knocked down by the back of it
One of my least favorite characters to play against online. It's not honest at all playing him. If you're not actively looking for flipkick, you'll get hit with it 99% of the time. You have to assume they'll do it after every block string which leaves you open to whatever other online shenaningans god knows nw players do.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
One of my least favorite characters to play against online. It's not honest at all playing him. If you're not actively looking for flipkick, you'll get hit with it 99% of the time. You have to assume they'll do it after every block string which leaves you open to whatever other online shenaningans god knows nw players do.
I don't use flip kick setups almost at all unless I am switching sides or baiting a counter poke. I play very defensive and footsie based both online and off. This is the difference between online success and offline success.

We all know online favors the aggressor. I'm fine with losing sets online all day cause i miss timed stuffing a wakeup or dropped a corner combo...but offline I play the same way and its much more effective.
 

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
I don't use flip kick setups almost at all unless I am switching sides or baiting a counter poke. I play very defensive and footsie based both online and off. This is the difference between online success and offline success.

We all know online favors the aggressor. I'm fine with losing sets online all day cause i miss timed stuffing a wakeup or dropped a corner combo...but offline I play the same way and its much more effective.
Ya. Most NW mains were born online, though. You don't have the habits 90% of the nw population do. I appreciated that during our set way back when.
 
@DarthArma
Even though im late, I'll give you my intake on the matchup.
I really just lame out zoning lobo. I see no reason to go in lobo unless he has a huge health lead.
I really just spam gs and wd until he gets in. The only problem is that he might load up a nuclear shell. Which isn't even a big problem. Just dont use wingdings(He can punish wd with a nuke shell) and use gs sparingly.
Now personally, I have trouble stuffing lobos wakeups. So instead I have setups that bait it into a punish. For example, in staff, Jump back1 beats out his charge on wu. In escrima you can nj2 it(It's a little tricky). Or wingding it.
 

gpmoney

CORN | gpmoney. Saltier than a bag of chips.
@DarthArma I used to play this MU alot. I played phillpops at ufgt in a long casual and it helped me alot. Like fly said you didnt play it bad The key to beating lobo is spacing and patience. Im gonna need you to optimize them combos bro!!!! I know combos dont win the game but there are times when you take 28% when you could be taking 38-40% and it would make the match smoother and blah blah blah. Its kinda hard to zone lobo due to his dash being so good and that nuke shot range. If lobo blocks 1 staff GB he gets a free dash and the next whiffs, he can go under wing dings easily if done wrong. If you want I can record a set and upload it so you can get a gist of it. You where a lil too predictable on frame traps and pressure. decay air grabbed and poked out of them a few times. Im gonn also need less flying graysons bruh lol.
 
@DarthArma Im gonna need you to optimize them combos bro!!!! I know combos dont win the game but there are times when you take 28% when you could be taking 38-40% and it would make the match smoother and blah blah blah.
I'm gonna need you to give me some details, because those are pretty much fighting words