Nightwing Fixes/Issues/Requests

[mush210]

I know exactly how big a buff that would be, hence why I'm requesting it. It would be so much easier to open people up in escrima, and you'd get really good mixups (1- d1,2 - b2, 2- d1,2 - mb flip kick, 3- d1,2 4 ground blast, 2, etc). Catwoman got that overhead normal, and that was a huge buff for her. It makes him better but not OP.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

I know exactly how big a buff that would be, hence why I'm requesting it. It would be so much easier to open people up in escrima, and you'd get really good mixups (1- d1,2 - b2, 2- d1,2 - mb flip kick, 3- d1,2 4 ground blast, 2, etc). Catwoman got that overhead normal, and that was a huge buff for her. It makes him better but not OP.

I'll agree with this, much in the same way that every Catwoman player will agree - making her F1 or F2 an overhead made her a much scarier character, but it didn't change her matchups at all. That would very much be the case with Nightwing. He would have much better mixups, but changing the properties on a move like that would not in any way change his matchups.

For all the mixup options Killer Frost has, all of her bad matchups are still decidedly bad.

 

[TakeAChance]

Escrima has the slowest d1 because staff has the best d1. I understand your pain as a batgirl main getting locked out by d1s (ours is 8 frames) but you can at least push block and switch to staff (if only temporarily). I wouldn't be opposed to a 9frame f2 for Nightwing, but I can't see why he should get a faster d1.

Imo he needs one or the other and not both.

Either adjust his d1 to be slightly faster (like 7 or 8f) or make his F2 (mid) be 7 or 8f.

That way he has a reasonable chance against a lot of the cast when he gets touched in escrima.

The reason why he needs an escrima adjustment is because it's currently way to easy to just use staff for the majority of matches. Getting stuck in escrima against someone is an extreme disadvantage. Having only a 9f option to get out of ANY poke pressure is very hard against most of the cast. Supes has an 8f advancing mid. I want an 8f non advancing mid so I have an option to counter poke.

You have to pushblock in escrima as is against a lot of the cast. Green Arrows arrow pressure is NOT a gimmick against Nightwing. He literally has to pushblock lol.

Currently, Escrima is used as a mobility tool to get to staff. That's fine and dandy, but imo this character would be insanely good if both stances were equally viable.

I think making his d1 in escrima 7 or 8f may be a bit much, but I think adjusting f2 or even 2 to be 7 or 8f would be perfect. That's all he needs to be a perfect all around character. Both stances can be utilized effectively.

 

[zuurrkk]

I agree with his b2 already being good enough, but he needs more lows in escrima. His only low normal is a slow sweep! Either make his d1 faster or a low, and you already know which I'd much prefer. Honestly, I don't see how speeding up his d1 helps all that much if it remains a mid. 113 is still better.

You trollin? So you want him to have crazy high/mid starting +frames amazing mid starters and overhead starters, and d1 to be a low? Loooolllllllllllll. Escrima stance is already really good and I don't think it's necessary to have a tool like that.

But seriously though fix Kali fury and ex staff spin. Regardless nightwing is a great fucking character that needs more skins lol

 

[TakeAChance]

I also think every nightwing player wants them to make his scatterbomb useful. Right now it's pretty much the worst special in the game.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

I don't see scatter bomb changes giving him better options against the Top 5.

A better b2
A better b1
A better d3
A better 3
A better d2
A better f2

Choose one.

Focus Dicks. Footsies.

 

[mush210]

You trollin? So you want him to have crazy high/mid starting +frames amazing mid starters and overhead starters, and d1 to be a low? Loooolllllllllllll. Escrima stance is already really good and I don't think it's necessary to have a tool like that.

But seriously though fix Kali fury and ex staff spin. Regardless nightwing is a great fucking character that needs more skins lol

On paper all of his crazy high/mid starters would be awesome, if the opponent ever had a reason to respect them. As it stands, you never have to block low when NW's in escrima, which severely lessens the usefulness of his other strings. Being a NW player that uses escrima more than staff, it'd be huge to have a low starter. As other people in this thread have stated, most use escrima for mobility and as an entry into staff, not to do damage. I don't think that was the intention when NRS designed this character.

Making d1 a low makes escrima much better (and possibly more viable in some MUs), and would balance the two stances out. In no way does this make him better than the top tier, but it would help him compete, maintain pressure, and do damage, when he gets in.

 

[Chongo]

I don't see scatter bomb changes giving him better options against the Top 5.

A better b2
A better b1
A better d3
A better 3
A better d2
A better f2

Choose one.

Focus Dicks. Footsies.

If supes can have a 8 frame advancing mid, why can't we have a 8 frame non advancing mid?

Literally, fix the MB Staff Spin and Fury whiffing on characters and make f2 8 frames, and we're set.

 

[AssassiN]

If supes can have a 8 frame advancing mid, why can't we have a 8 frame non advancing mid?

Literally, fix the MB Staff Spin and Fury whiffing on characters and make f2 8 frames, and we're set.

How about his 2 instead of F2?

 

[zuurrkk]

On paper all of his crazy high/mid starters would be awesome, if the opponent ever had a reason to respect them. As it stands, you never have to block low when NW's in escrima, which severely lessens the usefulness of his other strings. Being a NW player that uses escrima more than staff, it'd be huge to have a low starter. As other people in this thread have stated, most use escrima for mobility and as an entry into staff, not to do damage. I don't think that was the intention when NRS designed this character.

Making d1 a low makes escrima much better (and possibly more viable in some MUs), and would balance the two stances out. In no way does this make him better than the top tier, but it would help him compete, maintain pressure, and do damage, when he gets in.

Lol dude 112 and d1 2 are +1736 and +8 respectively. Of course making d1 a low would improve escrima stance. Do you know who else needs a low? Black Adam. He has no low starters and isn't respected at all. What I'm saying is that escrima has plenty of ways to get in. B2, crazy advantage high starters a cross up flip kick, etc. he doesn't need a low to get in.

"Make my character top tier pls nrs"

 

[NightwingDayZero]

If supes can have a 8 frame advancing mid, why can't we have a 8 frame non advancing mid?.

“Footsies” is oldschool slang for the mid-range ground-based aspect of fighting game strategy. It refers to a situation where both players are outside of combo range and attack each other with long-range, generally safe attacks (pokes). The ultimate goal is to control the flow of the match, bait the opponent into committing errors, and punish everything.

The hitboxes of these normals need to be adjusted to be effective, but ultimately, the end goal is the same.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

What I'm saying is that escrima has plenty of ways to get in. B2

"Make my character top tier pls nrs"

Nightwing can not play footsies with the Top 5.

6frame true highs aren't helping anyone "get in."

Yes, I am asking NRS to make Nightwing top tier. You can also check my post history where I am in support of many buff threads in many sub forums seeking for their own buffs. I believe every character should be top tier. Much in the same way Capcom is taking SSFIV ULTRA.

 

[Saitsu]

I don't see scatter bomb changes giving him better options against the Top 5.

A better b2
A better b1
A better d3
A better 3
A better d2
A better f2

Choose one.

Focus Dicks. Footsies.

A better f2 at most for punishing, that's it.

Even if we got better footsie normals, most of the matchups you mentioned would barely get any better. Because our main problem in said matchups isn't solely in a footsie battle. It's the fact that most of those characters you mentioned can live in the air and in Dick's blind spot.

I don't want braindead footsies. A twice as fast b2 with less recovery would be incredibly brain dead. As it is now he has a far reaching normal with some risk involved but with incredible payout. THAT'S HOW NORMALS LIKE THIS SHOULD BE. Aquaman can get away with having better long ranged normals like that because his game isn't as versatile.

The problem with your thought process is the fact that you're forced to use a character like Superman as context to how normals should be when his f2 is just way too stupid as it is.

 

[zuurrkk]

Nightwing can not play footsies with the Top 5.

6frame true highs aren't helping anyone "get in."

Yes, I am asking NRS to make Nightwing top tier. You can also check my post history where I am in support of many buff threads in many sub forums seeking for their own buffs. I believe every character should be top tier. Much in the same way Capcom is taking SSFIV ULTRA.

6 frame true highs that lead to +22 on block do. if they respect your overhead options then true highs shouldnt be too much of an issue. I understand your way of thinking and what you're trying to do and I respect it, As a part time nightwing player I would love to see him get a low starter but at the same time a low starter is too huge of a buff. JUST F2 1 3 STANCE CANCEL GROUND POUND BRO. Lol but seriously I think that's too big of a buff

 

[NightwingDayZero]

6 frame true highs that lead to +22 on block do. if they respect your overhead options then true highs shouldnt be too much of an issue. I understand your way of thinking and what you're trying to do and I respect it, As a part time nightwing player I would love to see him get a low starter but at the same time a low starter is too huge of a buff. JUST F2 1 3 STANCE CANCEL GROUND POUND BRO. Lol but seriously I think that's too big of a buff

Except d12 isn't going to change any MUs.

I already explained that making Catwoman's f2 an overhead made her a much scarier mixup character, but her biggest problem matchups are still problem matchups.

And I'm not asking for d12 to be a low, I'm asking for better b2 frames and hitbox.

I appreciate that you respect my opinions on design philosophy.

The problem with your thought process is the fact that you're forced to use a character like Superman as context to how normals should be when his f2 is just way too stupid as it is.

So then the options are either

A. Nerf superman - alienating and pissing off a very large portion of the Injustice community and turning players away from Injustice as a whole

Or

B. buff the rest of the cast. Increasing character variety in our Top 16s. Inspiring new players to try the game.

Imagine if EVO Grand Finals was Lex vs Lobo, Shazam vs Black Adam, or Harley vs Joker.

 

[Sajam]

Escrima's rushdown game is fine. He doesn't need lows, that's crazy talk.

If you don't believe me, then start using ground spark dash cancels more and you will see why. I think the reason so many NW players think Escrima is bad is because 90% of them start the game with stance cancel into flying Grayson. There is really only a handful of matchups I only use staff in, and other than that I escrima all day. The only changes I really want are the fixes for MB staff spin and maybe flip kick. Faster d1/better b2 would be ok, but I don't honestly think he needs it.

Really though, if I see another match where a Dick player starts the match with stance cancel into flying Grayson I'm going to hang myself.

 

[Saitsu]

Buffing every character to top tier sounds nice in theory but without proper context it's a crapshoot.

You know the reason it's good for SF4? Because they've spent the last 3 revisions nerfing the crap out of EVERY character. In SF4, it was a battle of who's the least mediocre. Most of those buffs characters are getting? Are just Capcom reverting all the nerfs characters got initially.

Buffing characters to the top tier in the wrong game has bad consequences. Trying to buff everyone to Superman's level here? Will just make every single character brain dead and make Injustice a bad game all around. A Harley vs Joker Grand Finals don't mean much if they both have brain dead options they can fall back on all day.

The reality is that for most games, buffing everyone to the current top tier is actually a moronic move. It just happens to work for SF4 because all the characters in the game are average to begin with.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

At the present build, many characters are incapable of playing footsies with the Top 5. Unfortunately the most interesting characters in the game happen to be the characters I'm referring to.

Killer Instinct 3 is coming. Piss people off with the next patch and they won't be waiting around for the next one.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Make 1 a mid instead of a high, thatll make the already good 112 string even better, easier to keep consistent pressure w Dick.

More range on f2, b1, 3 or even b2

Scatterbombs more range, MB causes juggle state (in exchange increase damage scaling, it will become a viable anti air)

Change d12 in escrima for the better, idk how, but make it better lol

Bigger hitbox on j2 would be heavenly, would make crossing up a whole lot easier, batman can cross up without a set up. Nightwing needs perfect spacing to cross up...

That's all I can thing of, if I leave w the j2 buff and the scatterbomb buff, I'd be happy.

 

[Saitsu]

At the present build, many characters are incapable of playing footsies with the Top 5. Unfortunately the most interesting characters in the game happen to be the characters I'm referring to.

Killer Instinct 3 is coming. Piss people off with the next patch and they won't be waiting around for the next one.

Except they really aren't that interesting. You know what's interesting? Characters with unique playstyles but also with Flaws.

What flaws do Batman and Superman realistically have? Or Green Lantern?

People wouldn't have cared as much for a ton of Superman if Superman was interesting to watch or play.

This isn't an MvC2 situation where the Top characters of the game actually make the game interesting. It's the opposite at this point in time.

And if people are so easily swayed to leave Injustice they weren't going to be waiting around for the next one anyway.

 

[AssassiN]

A lot of these buff suggestions are just way too much, making it look like NW is shit tier.

 

[TakeAChance]

I am telling you guys.

All he needs is his Staff spin (M) to hit all hitboxes.

His escrima fury to be fixed.

And a 8f d1 OR 8f f2.

That's it. Staff is 100% fine.

 

[zuurrkk]

I am telling you guys.

All he needs is his Staff spin (M) to hit all hitboxes.

His escrima fury to be fixed.

And a 8f d1 OR 8f f2.

That's it. Staff is 100% fine.

100% agree and I would love these changes. Anything else seems excessive.

 

[BigMilk]

I agree w this w the addition of a scatterbomb frame buff

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

His D1 should be a low.

His J2 can be buffed.