New to harley, need help.

[Qwark28]

112 is +21 and 33 is is 21 f and 33 is +8
It's like a ghetto infinite

So basically she has huge advantage to set up her mixup game, interesting. What stops someone from simply blocking the overhead on reaction since its so slow?

 

[Laos_boy]

So basically she has huge advantage to set up her mixup game, interesting. What stops someone from simply blocking the overhead on reaction since its so slow?

I posted tech a while back using 112 in to f13 or f1trantrum for a high low mix up.

 

[RM Truth]

Take it for what you will, but someone suggested in my thread that the best stage for her is Wayne Manor Great Room. :\

 

[DoctrineDark]

Qwark28 me too, also I have some vortex for harley but im not sure if it is new, someone help me?

 

[KIllaByte]

So basically she has huge advantage to set up her mixup game, interesting. What stops someone from simply blocking the overhead on reaction since its so slow?

The Back + 2 low option is 8 frames, and leads to slightly greater damage- and has better range.
The defending player must first ensure that they're not being shot in the toes by B2, which leads to defending players doing this preemptively, instead of guessing.

If approaching from a jump in, Harley Quinn can cancel her jump attack into air gunshot for an instant overhead, blowing up the player for preemptively blocking low. This gunshot connecting leads to what I think is a safe jump on most characters, though I haven't tested HARD- as I'd need another living person.
There's three things that can happen off of that jump in situation.
Exceptionally quick overhead-
Super Quick Low
Slowish overhead.
It's tougher than most think.
They have to be wary of all of those options when reacting to the 27 frame overhead.

Another footsies option: cancelling B2 Low into something else- I often take a big risk and cancel into MB overhead bounce. This risk usually pays off. It is two bars, but tow bars earning 40% more than we normally would have is worth it.

 

[KIllaByte]

Take it for what you will, but someone suggested in my thread that the best stage for her is Wayne Manor Great Room. :\

I was about to bring in my post from there, will do it now.

Harley Quinn's best stage is Wayne Manor's Great Room.
In both corners, there are corner bomb placements. This gives her 5 way mixups in the corner, off of her 1, 1, 2 string hard knockdown option. She can go low, side switch overhead, normal overhead (with armor), throw, and also do an unblockable, difficult to escape 20% bomb, into corner combos for crazy meterless damage.

In addition to this, the Piano adds 20% to any combo, as it OTGs and is the fastest interactable in the game for gadget characters. Power characters are absolutely awful with the piano, while gadgets get 20% free if positioned correctly.

Also, the chandelier is detrimental to the game of keepaway characters, and helps Harley get close, to eventually open up the opponent and take them to either corner, where she's at her best on this stage.​

The chair is silly, but its damage is huge. Ending combos with the forward gunshot special move when next to the chair leads to a setup that needs to be tech roll wakeupped as well.​

 

[Qwark28]

The Back + 2 low option is 8 frames, and leads to slightly greater damage- and has better range.
The defending player must first ensure that they're not being shot in the toes by B2, which leads to defending players doing this preemptively, instead of guessing.

If approaching from a jump in, Harley Quinn can cancel her jump attack into air gunshot for an instant overhead, blowing up the player for preemptively blocking low. This gunshot connecting leads to what I think is a safe jump on most characters, though I haven't tested HARD- as I'd need another living person.
There's three things that can happen off of that jump in situation.
Exceptionally quick overhead-
Super Quick Low
Slowish overhead.
It's tougher than most think.
They have to be wary of all of those options when reacting to the 27 frame overhead.

Another footsies option: cancelling B2 Low into something else- I often take a big risk and cancel into MB overhead bounce. This risk usually pays off. It is two bars, but tow bars earning 40% more than we normally would have is worth it.

So basically I need to gamble and hit them with air gunshots to condition them.

What are her cupcake bomb and toy gun uses for? I assume cupcake bomb is meant to stop things like cyborg zoning or jumpers from far away?

 

[KIllaByte]

So basically I need to gamble and hit them with air gunshots to condition them.

What are her cupcake bomb and toy gun uses for? I assume cupcake bomb is meant to stop things like cyborg zoning or jumpers from far away?

You've learned quickly: her gameplay is not very different from the theme of her trait.
1 of 3 things could happen randomly, and the opponent had better guess properly.
The Non meterburned cupcake bomb is only found useful off of the 1, 1, 2 hard knockdown- where it stuffs wakeups as an overhead that is absolutely guaranteed to strike. That magic tech was found by @Burgess.

You're still mostly correct in your cupcake hypothesis as well- as the EX version is the one used to anti air jumps from point blank to 3/4ths screen away, for a combo from any of these ranges. Cupcake bombs are not fullscreen, though.
That's where the toy gun is more useful for Harley players, in the matchups where she can give herself time to use it.

Toy gun speed, size, and blockability, and start up frames all change based upon how the Halrey player ambiguously presses buttons, with the exception of the meterburn.
It's tricky, and surprisingly difficult to jump over.
The charged meterburn is a great finsihing tool against characters you can launch fullscreen away.
Bane, Lex, Gundy.. them.

 

[RM Truth]

I believe after a blocked cupcake you also get a free gunshot.

 

[KIllaByte]

Harley's D2 is still abysmal- this is her prime weakness- and a reason as to why she needs to either be jumpy, or at about 1/3 screen distance away.

 

[KIllaByte]

I believe after a blocked cupcake you also get a free gunshot.

This is also true.
The meterburn version you've reminded me is amazingly positive on block.

 

[Qwark28]

You've learned quickly: her gameplay is not very different from the theme of her trait.
1 of 3 things could happen randomly, and the opponent had better guess properly.
The Non meterburned cupcake bomb is only found useful off of the 1, 1, 2 hard knockdown- where it stuffs wakeups as an overhead that is absolutely guaranteed to strike. That magic tech was found by @Burgess.

You're still mostly correct in your cupcake hypothesis as well- as the EX version is the one used to anti air jumps from point blank to 3/4ths screen away, for a combo from any of these ranges. Cupcake bombs are not fullscreen, though.
That's where the toy gun is more useful for Harley players, in the matchups where she can give herself time to use it.

Toy gun speed, size, and blockability, and start up frames all change based upon how the Halrey player ambiguously presses buttons, with the exception of the meterburn.
It's tricky, and surprisingly difficult to jump over.
The charged meterburn is a great finsihing tool against characters you can launch fullscreen away.
Bane, Lex, Gundy.. them.

So I should treat the toy gun as a lesser Zod ball.

 

[Qwark28]

Harley's D2 is still abysmal- this is her prime weakness- and a reason as to why she needs to either be jumpy, or at about 1/3 screen distance away.

I noticed, is it just the recovery or is it shitty as an AA too?

 

[RM Truth]

So I should treat the toy gun as a lesser Zod ball.

MB toy gun has no recovery on it so you can actually do good pressure strings off of it I believe

 

[KIllaByte]

So I should treat the toy gun as a lesser Zod ball.

A lesser zod ball is the best comparison.
Under those same lines- You can also follow it in as an approach tool, something I forgot to mention.

 

[KIllaByte]

I noticed, is it just the recovery or is it shitty as an AA too?

Both.
Sometimes when anti-airing, the wrong hit of the 2 hit uppercut hits, and doesn't launch the opponent.
Things get tricky if a player jumps at Harley. Something that's more local play oriented, but still more than noteworthy, is the option of Silly sliding under the opponent as they jump at you.

Your reaction time must be amazing, and most (myself included) will need to anticipate a bit, but it's a nice dodge, that gives you a jump in opportunity after they miss their stuff.
(results may vary, but usually don't.)

 

[KIllaByte]

Couple more tips of importance:
She can cover 3/4ths of the screen in less than a second- as silly slide can be cancelled into the Tantrum stance, which also has huge range on its first hit, and decent speed- and leads to her biggest combos.
Off of her tantrum stance low option: (2) a throw attempt is guaranteed. I think it needs to be teched, and I stole this from Mr. Mileena.

 

[KIllaByte]

This video of ours/mine is in another thread- but might as well bring it here for convenience purposes.
It's old- but it has a lot of tricky stuff other players still don't take advantage of, and not much has changed with Harley for a while.
It's also missing some stuff- at the time I didn't know 1, 1, 2 was a hard knockdown.
but it features a match of mine against Blind Man at the end, which I won- and then learned who I was playing against four months later.

 

[KIllaByte]

Feel free to skip over my self promotional youtube crap in the beginning.
I take you step by a step- a very gradual edited tutorial.

 

[Laos_boy]

You've play my harley , its not very great
My tips are:
Fuck aquaman

Zoning:
-Up gunshots are the best fake outs.
-Mb cupcake grants a free gunshot on block
-I only use pop pop to chip out someone

Getting in:
SS and air shots
-But characters with siesmos like aquaman and frost they can punish gun shots on whiff and sometimes on block
-But if they try to punish with a siesmo and you block you can reversal silly slide

Up close
-Most characters can duck 112 but if they do its +9 but people don't know that, so b2
-Now here's some tech that no ones uses but I use
If you familiar with skarlet she has her dash pressure if you don't know I made a thread about it. Harley can do the same with silly slide.
-Harleys grab range is terrible
- now more tech I found f13 is and overhead that's +20 on hit so you can keep looping f13 because of the threat of f1trantrum, its basiclly a 50/50
- I don't really play rushdown I'm more mix ups.

Footsies and mid Ranged.
- up shot is a really great mid ranged tool if hits it grants a combo.
But you need to make good reads.
- b2 b12 and d3 are her longest ranged normals

Other
- you posted in my trantrum cross up thread
- if you end a combo in 2u3 trantrum stance cancel into a neutral jump you will cross them up.
- d3 is her best anti jump in
- ONLINE you can backlash after a blocked cartwheel.
- THIS IS NEW TO ME. but b2 can make counter pokes whiff so if you d1 and they try to d1 you can do b2 most likely. win this is good against Frosts post slide mix up.

And
Fuck aquman

 

[KIllaByte]

For quick meterbuilding, up gunshot can be cancelled into horizontal gunshot.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

So I should treat the toy gun as a lesser Zod ball.

A very lesser Zod ball. An important note about pop pop is it does disappear after a few seconds.
I tried seeing if there were pressure set ups after MBing it or to make some unsafe things safe but if you go far enough from where it was fired it just vanishes. :/

Also if you are close enough and do a MB pop pop it's plus enough that you can either throw out a tantrum stance for a low combo starter (kinda strict on the timing) or do a jump 2 for an overhead.

 

[cR_whiteboi]

Doomsday I think is another bad MU for her.

That MU is even. deg222

 

[Qwark28]

Let's recap.

JIP 112 gives me a free 33 unless they duck the 112 at which point is +9

JIP 33 gives me a free 112 which can be hit confirmed into TS 1 for 20%, gunshot for some keepaway and silly slide for a setup or if I'm a jedi hitconfirm the 11 into TS1 for a combo which I guess will only happen on a read.

B121 does not come out on block so I shouldn't use it as a blockstring

B12 and 33 can be used as tick throws for play doctor when they respect the slide

Cartwheel can be hit confirmed from tantrum stance

During a knockdown if they don't wakeup I get a free 50/50 between play doctor and cartwheel which I assume catches backdashes

 

[cR_whiteboi]

I rarely ever see deg222 use play doctor outside of combo's.