New Ermac tech discovered.. looking for PSN user with camcorder

[Skkra]

Thanks for posting, even though it didn't pan out into anything. It never hurts to start a discussion.

Not that we should stop looking - the game is still very young - but it doesn't seem like Ermac has a ton of (or any) hidden groundbreaking tech. He DOES however seem like a very well made and solid character who a great zoning game AND a very decent close game... take a read through the frame data thread for more discussion on using his +frame and neutral frame moves and strings.

Ermac has a lot of potential... I think we are just waiting for the "Dieminion" or Ermac players to showcase his true potential on a big stage, the way Dieminion's ridiculously solid play has shown that Guile is a serious competitor.

God, it blows my mind how unexplored this game is. So many characters - Baraka comes to mind, has anyone SEEN the +frames this guy gets on block? - are so unexplored and have no big tournament name behind them. This forum is very active, I think someone from here is going to become the breakout Ermac. Maybe at Evo.

 

[zaf]

You can already get people to respect his jip by using air blast.
If it hits you CAN NOT tks when you land. So I do not know where you are getting this from.
Maybe you play people who can't block or something, but tks can be blocked after being hit with iafb.

Yes i understand what you mean about cyber sub, and there are better ways to get people respecting ermac jumping in.
Or even after block strings. Use 3,1 b3,4 and 1,2,1 to condition your opponent to block. All of these strings are 0 frame on block
So you can poke after one of these, or do another string after the other. Once your opponent gets used to you hitting them all the time
just cross over them earlier like after the 1st or 2nd string.

I do not think you can compare raidens teleport to ermacs levitate. You can get hit out before you can iafb.

but yes mixing your jump ins with iafb does open up his game, just not in block strings with levitate. I have already tried this in matches.
Its not that i am not capable of using this in matches, its just that this is not practical. This is a good step in the right direction of
trying to find things with ermac, but this alone wont confuse your opponent enough to beat them.

 

[zaf]

If you really want to mess with people, start looking more into ermacs frame data.
There is a lot of useful information there on how to be tricky and get set ups.

Like, i use this. After a f2 you are +4 on block. As soon as the move ends, do an iafb right at that spot.

 

[charlieonline]

What does the iafb after f2 grant. Is there a mix up opportunity once your opponent respects the iafb?

 

[RedSpectre221]

I feel that the iafb after gives you great spacing because the f2 knocks them forward and the iafb keeps you in that spot that helps create a safe distance this is good for fighting characters that have to get in. and also Zaf you can also hold up while in levitate to stay in the air its easier for me since i use the D-pad

 

[zaf]

Iafb after f2 keeps your opponent from jumping out and waiting for the iafb. You can then dash in and pressure however you want. Some strings and pokes will still connect after f2 so theres no need to dash.

You can also tks after f2 . More risky but pays off if you get the proper read


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[zaf]

I feel like testing this out more today.
I know i said its not viable, but I want to bring this to the lab with a friend and see if there is something just in case. Maybe there is a string with more blockstun that will work better with levitate then b11

 

[charlieonline]

Try b34 since it is 0 on block and is the end of the string you can cross over, do the hoverslam air blast, or poke. 33 also works as well as just 3.

cross over, u4 and hover slam air blast have incredibly similar animations... hell could even just go for another b34.

I remember you posting a thread saying how much you loved b34 maybe you can find something with it

 

[Metzos]

Try b34 since it is 0 on block and is the end of the string you can cross over, do the hoverslam air blast, or poke. 33 also works as well as just 3.

cross over, u4 and hover slam air blast have incredibly similar animations... hell could even just go for another b34.

I remember you posting a thread saying how much you loved b34 maybe you can find something with it

B34 can be interrupted in between by armored moves.

 

[zaf]

No i mean using string like b11 and canceling the string into levitate.
I really do not see anything that would work better, by looking at his frame data. But then again thats all on paper and this needs to be tested, not just thought out. 33 is a bad choice in any situation, its just a bad string.

I would never cross over into levitate.
I wonder how well levitate works for wake up attack? Ill try this out today too

I love b34, but peole poke out after the b3.
So i have been doing b3~ teleport and b34~teleport.
It worked a few times against some people who tried to poke out, i hit them with the teleport and into stagger.
But this sort of strategy i dont normally follow as it is too risky.
I guess using this once to teach your opponent is fine, it will stop them from poking out possibly.

 

[Roko1985]

I feel like testing this out more today.
I know i said its not viable, but I want to bring this to the lab with a friend and see if there is something just in case. Maybe there is a string with more blockstun that will work better with levitate then b11

I have one very stupid question.....cause i don't use levitate so much......En version: you can hold block and cancel into whatever you want, but the normal version if you hold block you can delay the slam but not cancel it into something.I have seen people canceling normal levitate after they have been holding him in the air into Teleport or IAB. So the question is HOW?

 

[zaf]

You just have to do it fast enough before letting go of block.
Try buffering it, but yes it is possible.

 

[SunnyD]

Is canceling levitate into a tele easier or harder on a PS3 controller? i use the controller and i can never get the hang of it

 

[zaf]

It is the same whether you do it on ps3 controller, xbox controller and a stick.
It is just the timing that you need to learn.
Also it is still just the timing you need to learn if you are trying to hold levitate and then cancel into tele or air blast

 

[charlieonline]

No i mean using string like b11 and canceling the string into levitate.
I really do not see anything that would work better, by looking at his frame data. But then again thats all on paper and this needs to be tested, not just thought out. 33 is a bad choice in any situation, its just a bad string.

I would never cross over into levitate.
I wonder how well levitate works for wake up attack? Ill try this out today too

I love b34, but peole poke out after the b3.
So i have been doing b3~ teleport and b34~teleport.
It worked a few times against some people who tried to poke out, i hit them with the teleport and into stagger.
But this sort of strategy i dont normally follow as it is too risky.
I guess using this once to teach your opponent is fine, it will stop them from poking out possibly.

I don't mean cross over into levitate I mean b34 is 0 and the animation for both levitate and crossing over are extremely similar, so on a cross up you could then do a b2 cancel or block string.

The timing for b34, 3 and b11 are all different for the levitate. 3 is by far the strictest, which is why I suggested 33 to get used to it. Although the string is bad, the cancel into levitate kills the neg frames and also is a string people tend to want to punish. Similarly to f2 tks reads, a 33 levitate tele read can work wonders.

 

[charlieonline]

I have one very stupid question.....cause i don't use levitate so much......En version: you can hold block and cancel into whatever you want, but the normal version if you hold block you can delay the slam but not cancel it into something.I have seen people canceling normal levitate after they have been holding him in the air into Teleport or IAB. So the question is HOW?

IMO the ex levitate cancel can be useful but it is extremely expensive at the cost of a bar. What is good about it is that it acts in a fashion similar to a b2 cancel such that you hold your levitate and on a good read you either blast or tele.

I have not tested recovery on simply canceling the levitate however, maybe the ex one allows you to block immediately upon landing

 

[charlieonline]

Come to think of it... I'm going to explore the ex version on the blockstrings that do not work with this tech so you can't simply be uppercutted... this would provide greater spacing for reads and might make it more safe if you decide to drop down.

 

[charlieonline]

Okay a few things here.. I'm in the lab now busting some things.. and although there is the close proximiter version of this that hits you on block and makes you safe... the ones that don't work, meaning the combos that whiff up close, build meter in the same fashion as 121 fireball but you are safe.

For instance, b114 canceled into air blast builds more than half a bar and is safer than b114 fireball for the same effect. People can't jump after this but testing needs to be done on if anything actually punishes this. So maybe this can simply be used as an extension of b114 to build more meter, ala Quan Chi.

You know, I really don't think it's that bad man.. jip b114 levitate air blast cancel and one b11 levitate cancel builds over a full bar. I really don't think people will be reacting all the time to a b11 cancel because the b114 cancel can also occur and they can't punish that... then of course you can just b11 full combo.

Edit: Okay you can also perform this at the end of a combo but I don't see much use for it yet. Gonna have to dig deeper on that one or cal l in the Check.

 

[KamikazeJD]

Man.. What am I missing here? Levitate up close is super punishable. I dont get why you'd want to run that risk bro. Fullscreen levitate is a much better option but alot of ex moves can hit u or at least close the gap to get to you.
U gotta think about it this way. B114 levitate airblast is safe for u... Right? If your opponent is too hesitant and blocks that whole string yes, it is. But EVERY character has an answer for an up close levitate that makes it nowhere near worth it. Not sure if im correct? Ask me to explain and ill go chara by chara and show that an upclose levitate airblast leads to full combo for your opponent.
Next, you can cancel both versions of levitate into air blast or teleport. I go ddu (hold blk), 2, db 2 for ab cuz of the negative edge in this game. I honestly believe en levitate is waste of meter. Go lab it up m see if its somethin better than jus faster levitate, drop, and recovery cuz I dont think it does..
Maybe ur doin somethin different than wat everyones thinkin.. If thats the case, record it.. Cuz right now this looks like a bad no no fir mac users

 

[Roko1985]

Man.. What am I missing here? Levitate up close is super punishable. I dont get why you'd want to run that risk bro. Fullscreen levitate is a much better option but alot of ex moves can hit u or at least close the gap to get to you.
U gotta think about it this way. B114 levitate airblast is safe for u... Right? If your opponent is too hesitant and blocks that whole string yes, it is. But EVERY character has an answer for an up close levitate that makes it nowhere near worth it. Not sure if im correct? Ask me to explain and ill go chara by chara and show that an upclose levitate airblast leads to full combo for your opponent.
Next, you can cancel both versions of levitate into air blast or teleport. I go ddu (hold blk), 2, db 2 for ab cuz of the negative edge in this game. I honestly believe en levitate is waste of meter. Go lab it up m see if its somethin better than jus faster levitate, drop, and recovery cuz I dont think it does..
Maybe ur doin somethin different than wat everyones thinkin.. If thats the case, record it.. Cuz right now this looks like a bad no no fir mac users

He is actualy not that crazy.I just went to the lab to check his theory and i was suprised.Not really how he said it , but similar.After JIP b34 levitate air blast is very good. It has a push back and you go for 121 or 312 after it. If they block low the levitate will not come out and you can d1 or d3 poke them. Another think: After block strings with push back you can cancel them into levitate and then cancel it(so he come to the ground) and then you 121 wich comes very fast or f2. That is what i tryed so far.............

 

[KamikazeJD]

I guess I labbed it wrong or somethin.. Cuz I know that you ca nt iafb after levitate. You can do a fb at its peak but iafb wont come out cuz levitate has to finish. Ill go check again tho..

 

[zaf]

Kami is right. air blast only comes out at the peak of levitate. Its not an iafb.

This really is not safe. You can be hit out of levitate before air blast or tele can come out. I tested this extensively with jer yesterday. If you want I can get him to share what he saw but he will just agree with me.

After several ways to poke out we tested character special moves. He was able to teleport on reaction with skarlet when he saw the levitate.

B34 is even worse to use then b11,b114. This is because you are at neutral frames after the 4. This makes it even easier to punish.

So after testing this even more I come to the conclusion this is not worth using. The best thing to get out of this is air blast on hit which just means some small advantage or maybe none from how high up you are.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

B1, throw

Useful.

 

[zaf]

So is b1 f4

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[Roko1985]

Kami is right. air blast only comes out at the peak of levitate. Its not an iafb.

This really is not safe. You can be hit out of levitate before air blast or tele can come out. I tested this extensively with jer yesterday. If you want I can get him to share what he saw but he will just agree with me.

After several ways to poke out we tested character special moves. He was able to teleport on reaction with skarlet when he saw the levitate.

B34 is even worse to use then b11,b114. This is because you are at neutral frames after the 4. This makes it even easier to punish.

So after testing this even more I come to the conclusion this is not worth using. The best thing to get out of this is air blast on hit which just means some small advantage or maybe none from how high up you are.

What if you use levitate cancel(after blocked strings with push back) to continue preassure......is there something similar to Sindels cancel? It seems that 121 comes very fast after you cancel the levitate.