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Match-up Discussion My April Joker matchup chart

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Eezeepeezee
I'm not convinced of NW still but over all I think joker is good. With so few 3-7 MU he can win
The only things that will hurt Nightwing in this matchup. Is that Nightwing does not have a good anti air in escrima and his air to airs will be beat out and in staff his ground pound is not the best at tracking. But i also can not see this being in jokers favor.
 

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Eezeepeezee
J3 and D2 are good in footsies, grundy is slow and teeth are good at keeping him out. Resets still work on him. He has damage going for him and MB swamp hands are good vs the occasional gunshot you should throw in this matchup.


Joker has

Inferior zoning
Better Damage
Better conversions
Better wallcarry
100% corner resets
Better footsie tools by far
Better anti air
Better J3

I think that all these give Joker a slight edge over Green Arrow. Not much, but just a little. GA's zoning is something to be respected, even if it's not that top-tier and you will be caught by the occasional mixup but I just can't see why a GA is not outplaying a Joker player when winning this matchup.

J3 dominance, D2 to check any movement, inability of NW to ever corner joker ( because one conversion means going into reset city, population : nightwing ), mediocre mixups. Up close Joker has the advantage and while NW can zone Joker to an extent, the damage is pitiful in escrima and really seeable + competable in staff.

This is a set I've ran with Chongo. One of the things I would say he hasn't yet added in his game is trip guarding Joker jumps like @Prycemonsta and knowing when to play very aggressive. It could change in the future, just like every other matchup on this list.




I believe it's 6-4 with 7-3 potential. I believe it is most likely to end up 6-4.

Joker completely dominates Cyborg up close and the fact that Joker has a 16f straight gunshot that can hit between perfect IANBS means that he gets to knock Cyborg done while trading damage and receiving 2 or even up to 3 free dashes. The only thing Cyborg has going for him is chip damage and alternating between IANBs and normal grounded fireballs which always trade in Cyborg's favor when it comes to recovering from the trade. That is quite weak since one good read and Joker is in.

Cyborg can not compete up close, is very ineffective fullscreen unless with a huge lifelead and relies on outsmarting the Joker player in a distance where one bad read from the Cyborg player means Joker enters. His grapple serves him poorly as Joker can simply jump back 3 to punish Cyborg for 11% minimum into crowbar setups.

Cyborg has holes in his strings which Joker can full combo punish, D1 SD is not a true blockstring unless from max range, has no footsie tools whatsoever and cannot establish a comeback unless he opens up Joker while having no mixups or ambiguous crossups outside of the corner, the one place Joker loves Cyborg being.
Ya the one thing i'm glad you said is that matchups can change at any time if feel that's one thing people have to think about is that we are still only in one year into the game and i'm glad to see what we all have done with it. Also would you be up for some games sometime? I feel that we could show each other something about the matchup.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Joker has several B1 teeth setups that he can do off of crowbar in the corner. It used to be 5-5 pre-patch but crowbar allowed Joker to get some resets and a vortex going in the corner.
 
I actually agree with this. Shazam can be rough and ignores our guaranteed stuff, we break pretty even in the neutral game, and his oki can be a problem.
I agree with 5-5, although, I feel this is one of the fewer MU's where you can actually utilize Joker's "Canister zoning" due to the fact that he has to respect the Gun shot, and the low canister stuffs the torpedo.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Joker has several B1 teeth setups that he can do off of crowbar in the corner. It used to be 5-5 pre-patch but crowbar allowed Joker to get some resets and a vortex going in the corner.
We can only do the metered stuff though right? So it's either the blockable OTG stuff off teeth -> b13 or if they respect the OTG then opening up the 50/50 stuff.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Something Grundy players don't do: MB SH to every jump in. This is free damage for Grundy... especially against Joker (who doesn't have multihitting jump attacks).

I'd say you're right. Both Characters negate each others wakeups to a degree, and both rely on resets to maximize damage.

I'd say a real joker player could make hay on using his Parry against d2~trait. But that is so hard to do ;)
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
We can only do the metered stuff though right? So it's either the blockable OTG stuff off teeth -> b13 or if they respect the OTG then opening up the 50/50 stuff.
No

B1 teeth out of a crowbar into either B13 or j2 if he tries to jump
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Something Grundy players don't do: MB SH to every jump in. This is free damage for Grundy... especially against Joker (who doesn't have multihitting jump attacks).

I'd say you're right. Both Characters negate each others wakeups to a degree, and both rely on resets to maximize damage.

I'd say a real joker player could make hay on using his Parry against d2~trait. But that is so hard to do ;)
No reason to parry d2 trait whatsoever. Just jump or insta j2/mb f3

Joker jumps and recovers way too fast to do mb sh. when 99% of the cast can only AA him on a read then a non armoured at the beginning slow ass mb sh will not work. the main problem in the MU is grundys damage, armour and air snatch along with jokers gunshot being just an antizoning tool.
 

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
The only things that will hurt Nightwing in this matchup. Is that Nightwing does not have a good anti air in escrima and his air to airs will be beat out and in staff his ground pound is not the best at tracking. But i also can not see this being in jokers favor.
online, NW's anti air is trash.

Offline it's more viable.

If you don't know how to dash away from Joker's jump ins and sit there blocking them like a fool to end up being in 50/50 town, then expect to lose.

NW vs Joker is 5-5. Both can destroy each other in the corner since they don't have good wake ups. Nightwing's zoning is better and neutral is goes about even depending on your playstyle.

Qwark gotta be crazy to think the match up is 6-4 just because he gets free D1s and cross over J2s which is only viable online which inputs are in zombie mode.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
online, NW's anti air is trash.

Offline it's more viable.

If you don't know how to dash away from Joker's jump ins and sit there blocking them like a fool to end up being in 50/50 town, then expect to lose.

NW vs Joker is 5-5. Both can destroy each other in the corner since they don't have good wake ups. Nightwing's zoning is better and neutral is goes about even depending on your playstyle.

Qwark gotta be crazy to think the match up is 6-4 just because he gets free D1s and cross over J2s which is only viable online which inputs are in zombie mode.
"Note that this is my personal opinion of the matchups, these numbers do not represent the opinions of the entire Joker community but simply mine."
matchups can change
But I'm sure you can tell me which top Joker player you have played offline.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
No

B1 teeth out of a crowbar into either B13 or j2 if he tries to jump
Yeah, I use that from time to time, but people tend to start poking out of it pretty easily after it get's done once or twice. In Shazam's case, I believe he can cancel the poke into torpedo and escape all b1 teeth setups, no?
 
Joker has several B1 teeth setups that he can do off of crowbar in the corner. It used to be 5-5 pre-patch but crowbar allowed Joker to get some resets and a vortex going in the corner.
No

B1 teeth out of a crowbar into either B13 or j2 if he tries to jump
It's still blockable, plus if he has meter he can just pushblock. Then it's back to the neutral game.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
It's still blockable, plus if he has meter he can just pushblock. Then it's back to the neutral game.
Yeah, I use that from time to time, but people tend to start poking out of it pretty easily after it get's done once or twice. In Shazam's case, I believe he can cancel the poke into torpedo and escape all b1 teeth setups, no?
It's not blockable if you do it properly and if he pushblocks the particular setup he gets launched by teeth.

you space b1 correctly and he can't poke you out of it, he must do either a jump, a B2 or some other risky shit.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
It's not blockable if you do it properly and if he pushblocks the particular setup he gets launched by teeth.

you space b1 correctly and he can't poke you out of it, he must do either a jump, a B2 or some other risky shit.
We'll the problem that I find with it is you either do it fast to make it un-pokeable but blockable, or slower to make in unblockable but pokeable. So I guess it's more like a 50/50 in that sense. But I'm pretty sure they can poke regardless of the timing... on block, the cancel advantage of b1 into teeth isn't large enough to guarantee the next b1 to hit before they have an opportunity to poke. Maybe you're talking about on hit though?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
We'll the problem that I find with it is you either do it fast to make it un-pokeable but blockable, or slower to make in unblockable but pokeable. So I guess it's more like a 50/50 in that sense. But I'm pretty sure they can poke regardless of the timing... on block, the cancel advantage of b1 into teeth isn't large enough to guarantee the next b1 to hit before they have an opportunity to poke. Maybe you're talking about on hit though?
No, the fast b13 is not unpokeable, they can throw you out of teeth and teeth will launch both of you and put you in a good distance away so he's cornered but escapes the setup. He can also d2 you if you do it too close.

what matters

timing to make it unblockable
distance to make it unpokeable

the 50-50 is, will he move or will he stay? if he stays, unblockable into the same situation with 30% less. If he presses buttons do a fast j2 to hit him out of teleport, dash, b2, neutral or diagonal jump. sweeps, d1s and the likes will get launched by teeth because you waited a split second before moving.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
No, the fast b13 is not unpokeable, they can throw you out of teeth and teeth will launch both of you and put you in a good distance away so he's cornered but escapes the setup. He can also d2 you if you do it too close.

what matters

timing to make it unblockable
distance to make it unpokeable

the 50-50 is, will he move or will he stay? if he stays, unblockable into the same situation with 30% less. If he presses buttons do a fast j2 to hit him out of teleport, dash, b2, neutral or diagonal jump. sweeps, d1s and the likes will get launched by teeth because you waited a split second before moving.
Word. Have you ever tried A2A j1 there against jump out attempts on read? It might juggle them on teeth and would lead to a 50+% combo. Things like that vary in effectiveness based on the jump arc of the character and timing of the jump, so I'm not sure it would work, but it might.
 

DraCuILa

Mute Jokester
What are some tips for fighting green arrow? If anyone can send me a link or give advice that would be great.
Another question, is b3 really +6 cause it seems like every time someone blocks it they have the advantage maybe cause they're mashing or I'm just late or what...
Last question when it comes to GA should i use the 212 string or 32?
 
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Qwark28

Joker waiting room
What are some tips for fighting green arrow? If anyone can send me a link or give advice that would be great.
Another question, is b3 really +6 cause it seems like every time someone blocks it they have the advantage maybe cause they're mashing or I'm just late or what...
Last question when it comes to GA should i use the 212 string or 32?
Don't be discouraged by normal arrows and know their frame data. Abuse j1 and j3, outfootsie him with d2 and sweep. use crowbar setups and bait and punish savage blasts