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Match-up Discussion My April Joker matchup chart

Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Note that this is my personal opinion of the matchups, these numbers do not represent the opinions of the entire Joker community but simply mine.

Lately been seeing some misconceptions about Joker and it has been half a year since I made one. This is my opinion of the character I'm going to EVO with.

Aquaman 4-6
Ares 4-6
Bane 4-6 with the current hotfix
Batgirl 4-6
Batman 4-6
Black Adam 4-6
Catwoman 5-5
Cyborg 6-4 potentialy 7-3. Will play this at evo with relaxedstate
Deasthstroke 4-6
Doomsday 4-6
Flash 3-7
Green Arrow 6-4
Green Lantern 4-6
Harley Quinn 4-6
Hawkgirl 5-5
Green Lantern 4-6
Killer Frost 5-5
Lex Luthor 5-5
Lobo 5-5
MMH 4-6 ( 3-7 on certain stages)
Nightwing 6-4
Raven 4-6 potential 5-5
Scorpion 5-5
Shazam 6-4
Sinestro 4-6
Grundy 4-6
Superman 4-6
WoWo 3-7
Zatanna 4-6
Zod 2-8 ( 3-7 in some stages )

Advantage matchups - 4
Even matchups - 6
Disadvantage matchups - 15
Heavy disadvantaged matchups - 3
Subzero - Kenshi matchups - 1
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
juicepouch said:
can you elaborate on the grundy MU? I've never played a good joker so I'm just curious
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J3 and D2 are good in footsies, grundy is slow and teeth are good at keeping him out. Resets still work on him. He has damage going for him and MB swamp hands are good vs the occasional gunshot you should throw in this matchup.

SoundsLikePAUSE said:
Out of curiosity, why do you think he beats GA?
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Joker has

Inferior zoning
Better Damage
Better conversions
Better wallcarry
100% corner resets
Better footsie tools by far
Better anti air
Better J3

I think that all these give Joker a slight edge over Green Arrow. Not much, but just a little. GA's zoning is something to be respected, even if it's not that top-tier and you will be caught by the occasional mixup but I just can't see why a GA is not outplaying a Joker player when winning this matchup.
STB Shujinkydink said:
out of curiositywhy does he beat NW?
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J3 dominance, D2 to check any movement, inability of NW to ever corner joker ( because one conversion means going into reset city, population : nightwing ), mediocre mixups. Up close Joker has the advantage and while NW can zone Joker to an extent, the damage is pitiful in escrima and really seeable + competable in staff.

This is a set I've ran with Chongo. One of the things I would say he hasn't yet added in his game is trip guarding Joker jumps like @Prycemonsta and knowing when to play very aggressive. It could change in the future, just like every other matchup on this list.


he beats Cyborg that bad? lol
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I believe it's 6-4 with 7-3 potential. I believe it is most likely to end up 6-4.

Joker completely dominates Cyborg up close and the fact that Joker has a 16f straight gunshot that can hit between perfect IANBS means that he gets to knock Cyborg done while trading damage and receiving 2 or even up to 3 free dashes. The only thing Cyborg has going for him is chip damage and alternating between IANBs and normal grounded fireballs which always trade in Cyborg's favor when it comes to recovering from the trade. That is quite weak since one good read and Joker is in.

Cyborg can not compete up close, is very ineffective fullscreen unless with a huge lifelead and relies on outsmarting the Joker player in a distance where one bad read from the Cyborg player means Joker enters. His grapple serves him poorly as Joker can simply jump back 3 to punish Cyborg for 11% minimum into crowbar setups.

Cyborg has holes in his strings which Joker can full combo punish, D1 SD is not a true blockstring unless from max range, has no footsie tools whatsoever and cannot establish a comeback unless he opens up Joker while having no mixups or ambiguous crossups outside of the corner, the one place Joker loves Cyborg being.
 
SEV

SEV

Noob
Why do you feel Joker v Flash is 3-7? I can see him potentially winning but it doesn't seem that bad.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
SEV said:
Why do you feel Joker v Flash is 3-7? I can see him potentially winning but it doesn't seem that bad.
Click to expand...
Several reasons.

Flash does not have to come to Joker. Joker can not force him to move in any way whatsoever. Gunshot can be punished on reaction with lightning charge, jumps with trip guard b22 or lightning uppercut on reaction. Flash can sit back and play a very reactionary game while waiting for his trait to fill up. Once he has the lifelead then Joker must come to him with his only way to approach being a a punishable d2, reactable jump, gunshot and dash in.

Flash severely outdamages Joker, has ways to outright open him up with 50-50s, something important the Joker lacks until he actually opens you up "manually", has much better midscreen setups and can be extremely overwhelming in the corner to the point where Joker does not want to get cornered, even if it means a J2 could bring him 100% in return.
 
mfkaoz

mfkaoz

Banned
I feel like Shazam vs Joker is a 5-5. Shazam doesn't have to care about Joker's teeth setups whether it's midscreen or in the corner because of his teleport. Joker can try to zone with gunshots and bait teleports with teeth but once Shazam gets in and gets his oki game going Joker is pretty much fucked.
Why do you feel like Joker wins it?
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
mfkaoz said:
I feel like Shazam vs Joker is a 5-5. Shazam doesn't have to care about Joker's teeth setups whether it's midscreen or in the corner because of his teleport. Joker can try to zone with gunshots and bait teleports with teeth but once Shazam gets in and gets his oki game going Joker is pretty much fucked.
Why do you feel like Joker wins it?
Click to expand...
I actually agree with this. Shazam can be rough and ignores our guaranteed stuff, we break pretty even in the neutral game, and his oki can be a problem.
 
Relaxedstate

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
@Qwark28 I definitely do not think Joker beat cyborg 7-3 lol 5-5 or 6-4 right now

I agree that IaFb is ineffective against a Joker player whom is well versed in his gun frame data as is grapple.
But groundfireball and charge ground fireball go a long way in this MU. Joker overall is better at footsies and damage, and it is easier for Joker to make a comeback when down on life than it is for Cyborg to make a comeback when low on life. I have some new stuff for this MU as well, we definitely need to play soon! EVO too of course :)

Have you gotten a chance to play any other Cyborgs?
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Relaxedstate said:
@Qwark28 I definitely do not think Joker beat cyborg 7-3 lol 5-5 or 6-4 right now

I agree that IaFb is ineffective against a Joker player whom is well versed in his gun frame data as is grapple.
But groundfireball and charge ground fireball go a long way in this MU. Joker overall is better at footsies and damage, and it is easier for Joker to make a comeback when down on life than it is for Cyborg to make a comeback when low on life. I have some new stuff for this MU as well, we definitely need to play soon! EVO too of course :)

Have you gotten a chance to play any other Cyborgs?
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I haven't found anyone on your lvl or will to lvl up in the matchup. I'll be glad to re-run it.
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Noob
Why do you think it's 5-5 vs KF? She wins the zoning, the corner and the knockdown game. Joker can't wake-up at all, plus her d2 is good enough for his jump ins. Parry beats crowbar and mb f3/teeth setups. I've played great Jokers and yeah, sometimes my health bars disappears, but it's much easier for KF to get her game going and I've rarely ever lost to him.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
teh_kingdunch said:
Why do you think it's 5-5 vs KF? She wins the zoning, the corner and the knockdown game. Joker can't wake-up at all, plus her d2 is good enough for his jump ins. Parry beats crowbar and mb f3/teeth setups. I've played great Jokers and yeah, sometimes my health bars disappears, but it's much easier for KF to get her game going and I've rarely ever lost to him.
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How does she win the corner game? How does she zone Joker? All he has to do is jump daggers and gunshot punish icebergs. This is a lifelead based zoning war. parry can be baited just like crowbar can, if youre parrying mb f3 teeth resets then thats the jokers fault for not letting the teeth hit 2 frames later.
Her D2 anti airs jumps when they're not done properly, if he can jump on aquaman he can jump on KF.

who have you played
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Noob
Qwark28 said:
How does she win the corner game? How does she zone Joker? All he has to do is jump daggers and gunshot punish icebergs. This is a lifelead based zoning war. parry can be baited just like crowbar can, if youre parrying mb f3 teeth resets then thats the jokers fault for not letting the teeth hit 2 frames later.
Her D2 anti airs jumps when they're not done properly, if he can jump on aquaman he can jump on KF.

who have you played
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KF can play her zoning game ( which is about building meter, not trying to hit you). Sure you can jump daggers or duck em, anyone can. No KF will throw iceberg just like that, gun punishes it, but you can't use gun as well, cuz of our iceberg. If we have super you can't jump daggers, Joker has no air special to delay his fall. In the corner, KF can reverse WUs with the command grab and Joker's acid blossom recovers so bad, we can punish after our whiffed grab for full combo into the same setup until he is dead ( if you don't WU you get hit by the grab obviously). There is a small window in delayed WU when it will comes in the right direction and this doesn't work in all corners, but still vs Joker's wake-ups it's really good. Mid screen after our meterless vortex, if you try to wake-up with the flower, our slide trades with it and we can continue the combo ( totalling 60% into a metered vortex and 1 wrong guess means death, or 70% for 1 bar). About the teeth setups, it's possible they mistimed them, that would explain why it worked only a few times. Yeah the D2 is not really consistent, but I feel it's good enough for the most part. Sure Joker has options and amazing setups, I'm not saying KF destroys him. When either character gets his game going it probably means the end, but KF has a much easier time to open up Joker and keep him at a distance. Personally I think it's 6-4 KF.
 
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