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Video/Tutorial - Johnny Cage MR.Cage´s issues and a way to play around it

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Thank you for making this. If we keep making posts and keep this discussion alive I have hope there's still a chance for a fix. If another patch drops and there's no fixes I dont know what I'm going to do. I've tried 3/4 of the cast and only enjoyed Johnny. Dont forget to tweet these video links out to NRS staff. Just posting at TYM wont get the job done.
 

stamatis

Όσα δε φτάνει η αλεπού. ........
Thank you for making this. If we keep making posts and keep this discussion alive I have hope there's still a chance for a fix. If another patch drops and there's no fixes I dont know what I'm going to do. I've tried 3/4 of the cast and only enjoyed Johnny. Dont forget to tweet these video links out to NRS staff. Just posting at TYM wont get the job done.
Let's hope they hear us!
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
On 114 look at the 14's height in relation to a crouching Cassie. It's not even near her, it shouldn't hit even if it's a mid - just look at it! I'd just count it as a low profile. Also, you kept taking a step back from Cassie then doing 114 to force it to whiff so you can really emphasise the whiffing but I'd say it's more like tampering with evidence, if you like. Cage struggles against small crouching hitboxes, use the overheard to condition people to stand up then use your standing 4 or whatever.

It should definitely be more consistent on charcters that aren't small female crouching characters though. I didn't know standing 4 was guarenteed after nutpunch so thanks! Nice video.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
On 114 look at the 14's height in relation to a crouching Cassie. It's not even near her, it shouldn't hit even if it's a mid - just look at it! I'd just count it as a low profile. Also, you kept taking a step back from Cassie then doing 114 to force it to whiff so you can really emphasises the whiffing but I'd say it's more like tampering with evidence, if you like.
None of the posted videos have shown Johnny and Cassie in the corner. You can be right on top of her and miss 11, 12, 114, 4, 333 (the first 3, a high, misses when she crouch blocks), B3.
 

RyuKazuya

Jesus is my Lord and Savior!
Thank you for making this. If we keep making posts and keep this discussion alive I have hope there's still a chance for a fix. If another patch drops and there's no fixes I dont know what I'm going to do. I've tried 3/4 of the cast and only enjoyed Johnny. Dont forget to tweet these video links out to NRS staff. Just posting at TYM wont get the job done.
Unfortunatly i dont have a twitter account. :/
Everyone can post this vid on twitter or facebook i give you guys the permission ^^
 

rafaw

#YouSuck
On 114 look at the 14's height in relation to a crouching Cassie. It's not even near her, it shouldn't hit even if it's a mid - just look at it! I'd just count it as a low profile. Also, you kept taking a step back from Cassie then doing 114 to force it to whiff so you can really emphasise the whiffing but I'd say it's more like tampering with evidence, if you like. Cage struggles against small crouching hitboxes, use the overheard to condition people to stand up then use your standing 4 or whatever.

It should definitely be more consistent on charcters that aren't small female crouching characters though. I didn't know standing 4 was guarenteed after nutpunch so thanks! Nice video.
How can you low profile a move crouch blocking? mid should allways hit in this case, even a high hit in crouch blocking, its for sure a hitbox issue.

Theres ways around it for sure, i use 4skrc all the time after a np but i would prefer to have the option to use 114 after that consistently, its a mid and should hit, but my safe options at the moment is just f2 and f3 after a 4skrc, so even if i use f2skrc f3 rc, its not a good pressure bc its easy to defend, if they fix it 114 will be guaranted and it opens up for a lot more pressure.

Even tho i use 4skrc into 114 all the time, never tested it might be guaranted already bc 11 comes out in 12 frames... so after a np 4skrc into 114 might be guaranted, im using it a lot and dont remember to get countered when i do it right.
 
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Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Luckily cage has a pretty good overhead to deal with all the hitbox garbage, because if you didn't then I'd probably spam Ed Boon on Twitter telling him to trim his Eye brows to see videos of Cage's normals whiffing
But you cant just F2 all the time. You cant always punish, or start any pressure with it.
 

Somea2V

Thread Referee
On 114 look at the 14's height in relation to a crouching Cassie. It's not even near her, it shouldn't hit even if it's a mid - just look at it! I'd just count it as a low profile. Also, you kept taking a step back from Cassie then doing 114 to force it to whiff so you can really emphasise the whiffing but I'd say it's more like tampering with evidence, if you like. Cage struggles against small crouching hitboxes, use the overheard to condition people to stand up then use your standing 4 or whatever.

It should definitely be more consistent on charcters that aren't small female crouching characters though. I didn't know standing 4 was guarenteed after nutpunch so thanks! Nice video.
Except that crouch blocking should never be considered a low profile, much less against mid-hitting moves (you know, attacks that should connect regardless of how you block).

And besides, the trend amongst other characters is that you can crouch under high hits but you'll be connected with if you crouch block. Instead, Cage's high hits get low profiled by a crouch-block. These things don't make sense with how the game is supposed to function.

On topic: Great video. Sadly, I think we're past trying to get NRS to care their game doesn't function properly. It, sadly, is on us to develop a separate set of tactics to continue to use our favorite character.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
But you cant just F2 all the time. You cant always punish, or start any pressure with it.
I know, I'm not saying it's acceptable but there's probably a 20% that any hitbox issues regarding small characters will get fixed, less so for someone like JC who I know the NRS testers think is fine. Moves whiffing for bullshit reasons has been happening since 2011 and there's been much worse examples than Mkx, hell Shazam's 20 frame overhead that was -18(I think) whiffed 70% of the time and that problem was never fixed.

Do I want it fixed? Absolutely

Chances of it happening: Slim to none.
 
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NRS rarely fixes hitbox issues. Every character has hitbox issues to some extent, its somewhat worse for JC. I really hope NRS will fix these things, but for some reason they don't seem to care.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
How can you low profile a move crouch blocking? mid should allways hit in this case, even a high hit in crouch blocking, its for sure a hitbox issue.
I'm not saying "it's low profiling" I'm saying I'd just count it as a low profile or treat it that way. I agree a mid should in most-cases hit, but if you just use your head and look at the animation, it doesn't even look like it should connect regardless of what they have labelled it - which could be an accident for all we know, it might have been intended to be a high or something... Just throwing ideas out there.
 

Somea2V

Thread Referee
I'm not saying "it's low profiling" I'm saying I'd just count it as a low profile or treat it that way. I agree a mid should in most-cases hit, but if you just use your head and look at the animation, it doesn't even look like it should connect regardless of what they have labelled it - which could be an accident for all we know, it might have been intended to be a high or something... Just throwing ideas out there.
But that doesn't change the fact that in no way should a mid be "low profiled" by a crouch block regardless of how you define it. Lots of things look like they shouldn't hit and do while others don't while looking like they should. This "conundrum" is easily explained by looking at the game mechanics. However in this case, the product we see does not match up with the game's mechanics or how they function.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
I'm not saying "it's low profiling" I'm saying I'd just count it as a low profile or treat it that way. I agree a mid should in most-cases hit, but if you just use your head and look at the animation, it doesn't even look like it should connect regardless of what they have labelled it - which could be an accident for all we know, it might have been intended to be a high or something... Just throwing ideas out there.
Johnny cage would be the only character in the game who has a High hitting move in a string that is not the first hit.
 

rafaw

#YouSuck
I'm not saying "it's low profiling" I'm saying I'd just count it as a low profile or treat it that way. I agree a mid should in most-cases hit, but if you just use your head and look at the animation, it doesn't even look like it should connect regardless of what they have labelled it - which could be an accident for all we know, it might have been intended to be a high or something... Just throwing ideas out there.
Im using my head, are you? even if they designed it to be a high(whitch i doubt) its suposed to hit crouch block, the game mecanics says it and it should be a rule.
Im not saying "ohhh my god its impossible to play JC", i just dont agree with this, it goes agains the "rules" that the game is suposed to follow.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Im using my head, are you? even if they designed it to be a high(whitch i doubt) its suposed to hit crouch block, the game mecanics says it and it should be a rule.
Im not saying "ohhh my god its impossible to play JC", i just dont agree with this, it goes agains the "rules" that the game is suposed to follow.
MK9 and now MKX are both 2d fighters that use 3d hitboxes. This is basically just saying that if your fist doesnt connect with cassies face its a whiff. It was an issue in mk9 as well a bunch of characters could avoid mids by just crouch blocking.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
He's doing it against Cassie. That's a big part of it.

I'm not ripping the thread or video though. I think they're both good and make great points.

Cassie is the game's lowest profiling crouching block character though and she causes these kinds of issues for many moves by many characters.
 
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rafaw

#YouSuck
MK9 and now MKX are both 2d fighters that use 3d hitboxes. This is basically just saying that if your fist doesnt connect with cassies face its a whiff. It was an issue in mk9 as well a bunch of characters could avoid mids by just crouch blocking.
Yeah i remember, 3d hitboxes is really dumb in a 2d fg!
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
MK9 and now MKX are both 2d fighters that use 3d hitboxes. This is basically just saying that if your fist doesnt connect with cassies face its a whiff. It was an issue in mk9 as well a bunch of characters could avoid mids by just crouch blocking.
Yeah i remember, 3d hitboxes is really dumb in a 2d fg!
I think it needs to be tweaked and better explained, but the 3d hitboxes are a step forward in terms of realism.

If you throw a kick meant for someone's face and it instead catches their shoulder, that's not a hit - but more like a whiff.

Its raw, I agree - and not explained well, but it is a step forward in terms of realism - IMO.