MK9 vs other fighters depth.

[JrK]

Well that, and being able to do a combo in practice vs. being able to hit another human player are two drastically different things.

I've encountered online a share of players that got the 37% combo every time, but once I stopped them from actually being able to do it, they had nothing.

Agreed, and as said below it's 1%, but that logic isn't exclusive to MK.

I much prefer MK, and I think that it's 'easy to dive into and get wet' play will bring a lot of non-fg players into the genre. (Expecially with tournaments like the one Reo was at where they have a lot of non fighting games.)

I just don't see why anyone cares. Apples to oranges... My daddy can beat up your daddy, etc.

 

[WhooFlungPoo]

*sigh* Whatever happend to the days where you did your homework on your information instead of blindly jumping on a wagon?

Anyway, this person is probobly(Hopefully) VERY misinformed. Theres more depth to MK than other fighting game fans give it credit for. Its also still a new game so potential has yet to be discovered/exploited.

Im thinking of making an account and trying to settle things there. Anyone want to join in, or should I not even try?

Good luck convincing him. You might do a better job than I though. And ya this is total my dad can beat your dad type immaturity, but i'm in it now so i might as well follow through. :sniper:

 

[Massive Kano]

- Everybody has the same amount of health
- Everybody has the same jump properties
- Everybody has a projectile and/or a "thrusting attack"/teleport
- There are no grapplers
- The dial-a-combo system is horrendous and completely impracticable

These I definitely agree with.

All the people calling Jax and Sheeva grapplers are clueless. Grapplers don't have projectiles and, more importantly, DO have unblockable, untechable command grabs. They also tend to have things like slow walk/dash speed and low/short jump arcs. MK9 does NOT have grapplers.

Dial-a-combos are fucking lame. They were lame in MK3, they are lame in Tekken. They're just lame.

Fact is, MK is never going to be able to join the big leagues in the minds of the fighting community as a whole as long as it clings to the easy design shortcut of giving every single character a projectile and a "movement enhancer" special (teleport, lunge, etc), not to mention the same health and walk/jump properties. NRS ought to embrace this and let the series grow up. There's plenty of positive things that make MK gameplay unique (projectiles that don't cancel each another, combo breakers, stun moves, etc), but samey characters are not one of them. That's a tradition that needs to die.

 

[Jelan]

These I definitely agree with.

All the people calling Jax and Sheeva grapplers are clueless. Grapplers don't have projectiles and, more importantly, DO have unblockable, untechable command grabs. They also tend to have things like slow walk/dash speed and low/short jump arcs. MK9 does NOT have grapplers.

Dial-a-combos are fucking lame. They were lame in MK3, they are lame in Tekken. They're just lame.

Fact is, MK is never going to be able to join the big leagues in the minds of the fighting community as a whole as long as it clings to the easy design shortcut of giving every single character a projectile and a "movement enhancer" special (teleport, lunge, etc), not to mention the same health and walk/jump properties. NRS ought to embrace this and let the series grow up. There's plenty of positive things that make MK gameplay unique (projectiles that don't cancel each another, combo breakers, stun moves, etc), but samey characters are not one of them. That's a tradition that needs to die.

Dial-a-combo is great. Compared to this SF style combo system is pain and torture. And if you say characters are samey anyone can reply with "Akuma, Ken, Ryu, Evil Ryu, Oni, Gouken, Sakura, Sean, Dan" because they have hadouken shoryken and tatsu in some form. Different properties, but generally the same. And yes, 2 frame untechable high damage throws, that's what MK obviously needs.

 

[Massive Kano]

Dial-a-combo is great. Compared to this SF style combo system is pain and torture.

Maybe you could lrn2play? It's just Street Fighter. People on this board talk about SF like people on SF boards talk about VF, for fuck's sake.

And if you say characters are samey anyone can reply with "Akuma, Ken, Ryu, Evil Ryu, Oni, Gouken, Sakura, Sean, Dan" because they have hadouken shoryken and tatsu in some form.

To which anyone could reply: a) Who said shoto overkill didn't suck? b) Why limit the comparison to MK and SF? Any given fighter in the modern day is going to have more character diversity than MK.

And yes, 2 frame untechable high damage throws, that's what MK obviously needs.

Considering that nobody claims they're broken in games where they're implemented properly, I'm going to say this complaint is meritless.

 

[PND OmegaK]

Someone explain to me why 'dial-a-combo', and evey character having a projectile and teleport/advancing move is bad.

 

[Massive Kano]

Someone explain to me why 'dial-a-combo', and evey character having a projectile and teleport/advancing move is bad.

Dial-a-combo sucking is called an opinion.

More diversity in character abilities means more ways to play the game, which should be a self-evidently good thing in the context of a competitive fighter. This really shouldn't need a lot of elaboration.

 

[RagingNight]

this thread is rofl on so many levels, actually a good portion of this forum is just rofl.

People talking about other fighters like they actual know/play the game and diss other games of the same genre.

the whole "SF sucks" but yet SF3 and CVS2 are consider 2 of the best fighting games ever period

and then there are people that say "MK has no depth" which is a purely subjective statement especially when you have no/wrong information.

Why are people allowed to post/make threads like these? Like people making a whole new thread about their disc being crack, quitting online, "another form of a tier list", or "nerf/buff xyz"

Seriously mature up, and stop making threads to get attention that serve no purpose but to create an e-trainwreck

 

[CrashLand]

I don't know why people these days consider the complexity of a FG or games in general to be considered good (FG) or 'hardcore'(other games). It's more so about the gameplay, reactions, judgement, assessments, execution, creativity (MK might fall short here), and wits, mindgames. Which IMO, MK does well for it's first iteration in the competitive department.

Chess is fairy simple, yet it's complex at the same time.

You can have a Cyrax player that knows all the easy 50% BnBs and Resets, but if he lacks any of the other things mentioned above, I bet he's going to not succeed.

I agree 100%... anytime somebody starts blabbering about how <insert game here> is the greatest because it has four kinds of block, six meters and four kinds of throw techs, it just makes me want to go back to Street Fighter II. There's such a thing as elegance in design.

 

[PND OmegaK]

Dial-a-combo sucking is called an opinion.

More diversity in character abilities means more ways to play the game, which should be a self-evidently good thing in the context of a competitive fighter. This really shouldn't need a lot of elaboration.

Most discussions center around opinions, but y'know, that's cool. As far as diversity goes, the moves in MK are the most diverse I've seen in any fighter. Every projectile has unique properties, same goes for the teleports too. I'll admit that the advancing moves are pretty similar, but if the characters that have those didn't, they'd be so many one sided matchups in the game. I reckon they work in MK too, it's a very aggressive game and the moves compliment that notion.

 

[leek]

Burn it all to hell.

If I WANTED to play some shitty ass Street Fighter 4 or jackhammer-your-stick MvC3, I'd PLAY them LOL.

I play Mortal Kombat for this. It's been like this and should always be like this. This is Mortal Kombat, where things make 100% sense and others make zero. Enter Baraka's X-Ray. Look at that shit, I mean what the hell? Johnny Cage, you should be dead. Say goodbye to motor function and involuntary processes...
Then he gets back up and kicks you resetting the situation. Stage 1, all ready to go. Projectile shenanigans, reminding you of douchebaggery on MK2 arcade machines with cage and zoning on Deadpool only to mess up the stage fatality.

That's the beauty of MK. It isn't this super serious like Starcraft 2 of fighting games that SF and MvC players try to make out every competing game..it's supposed to be fun. MK was built off of ripping out your opponents spine+head and having people crowd around saying, "HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!" only to see it again and again. High level Mortal kombat is a mix between amazing gameplay and ridiculous things ACTUALLY IN the game. like said earlier x-rays.. At evo every time there was an X-ray in the top 8 there was a huge reaction in the crowd. Not necessarily because of this amazing move he pulled off but because of the hype of the whole thing. The epic looking fatalities and shit..

Keep it the way it is.. I love my MK.

Now don't get me wrong I like a good game of SF3 every once in a while, I'm nothing near good but it's kind of fun..but it just doesn't have that allure to people who don't know about the series and game itself to bring new players into the game and create an overall fun experience. You don't have to know MK to watch finals and understand what looks like Kung Lao uppercutting the shit out of Sub Zero and taking the match. Scorpion getting a random spear and pulling off a stylish 40% combo to take the round. I just can't get hyped about SF because there isn't that epic feeling to it.

 

[Ether]

Decent fighting game? Sure. Deep as other fighters? No. MK9 is a good reboot to the series and a good foundation for MK10, but the engine and design philosophies still need some work.

 

[Jelan]

Maybe you could lrn2play? It's just Street Fighter. People on this board talk about SF like people on SF boards talk about VF, for fuck's sake.

To which anyone could reply: a) Who said shoto overkill didn't suck? b) Why limit the comparison to MK and SF? Any given fighter in the modern day is going to have more character diversity than MK.

Considering that nobody claims they're broken in games where they're implemented properly, I'm going to say this complaint is meritless.

I have started learning SF and I want to be good at it. But the combo system is bad. No matter what you say you can not change my opinion on this.

Why limit it to SF vs MK? Because I hacen't played MvC nor BlazBlue so that's the only thing I can actually compare it to?

And all I can say about untechable command throws is that I don't like them for a reason.

 

[John Diablo]

even 20 years ago there was sf/mk war... war, war never changes

 

[Sasuga]

The game may be a little less technical than a SF, MvC or BlazBlue but it doesn't really matter. Every game is defined by it's mechanics and whether a certain mechanic is enjoyable or not is purely subjective.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time admitting that something they like is less complex than something similar someone else likes.

dial-a-combo btw is for MK what target combo is for SF. Links are also in MK but to a far lesser extent. Think jip into uppercut for example. (and that might even cover it , lol)

 

[Justice]

I think the last line in the OP says it all. Character depth is not the same as game depth. Sure, everyone has a projectile, movement enhancer, etc. but no two characters play alike.

Sure, MK is the "easier" game, but I've found in gaming as in life that the easier things are to do, the harder they are to master. I am able to do 9 hits of a 12 hit kombo, but I can't get those last 3 hits to connect. I must be old.

It's just like others have said, any fool can pick up and play MK, but take on Reo or Perfect Legend and see how long you last. MKs depth doesn't come entirely from game design, but from the fact that there is less of a gap between scrub and legend. A scrub with a couple of bnb's can hang with a legend, but still won't win because the scrub won't know as well what to watch out for or be as skilled in the mind games, etc.

From a certain point-of-view, I would say that Capcom games are simpler than MK simply because in those games there is more of "If I do this and this and this, I will win" whereas in MK, there is less of a guarantee.

Fact is, all these games are great for their own reasons. Someone posted a thread on here about projectiles cancelling each other out like in SF and the general response was that it wouldn't work. It's just the way the two different games are designed. There's more than enough room in this world for both games.

 

[Bovine McKow]

I'm so tired of the stigma MK has attached to it. I feel that a lot of people won't even try it because of its history. I think that in time our community can only get larger though. With all of our competitive players out there tearing it up and making this game look gnarly I have high hopes for this franchises future.

 

[shura30]

- Everybody has the same amount of health
- Everybody has the same jump properties
- Everybody has roughly the same size/speed
- Everybody has a projectile and/or a "thrusting attack"/teleport
- There are no grapplers
- There are no cross-ups
- Mix-ups are on an extremely basic level
- The dial-a-combo system is horrendous and completely impracticable
- Meter is largely irrelevant aside from combo breakers and OP X-Ray attacks
- There are no defensive mechanics (aside from breakers)
- There is no wake-up game
- etc...

lol is the first thing that comes in my mind

simplicity isn't always bad
mk is simple but still deep

you can't measure deepness on other game's features

look at breakers for example
in other games you have meter, get the combo chance -> opponent is dead
mk change the whole concept of meter handling

crossups are just a stupid and on the glitch limit guessing situation
in most games it add less pushback and allow more damaging combos for what?bad guess on an front animation that hits you on the back?seriously?i love mk's block button

still mk needs engine improvements but the game is ok as it is

 

[MagicMan357]

Why do people not like dial-a-combos in general? I mean right off the bat theyre more consistent than the random SF links that have stupid frame gaps. If anything they need to make so you have to work for high damage, it shouldnt be a regular 8 hit for 33 damage unless its a really heavy hitter of some sort. I would actually like some 1 frame links in MK though to justify some damage and add combo ability to MK.

 

[gamesun]

I honestly dont understand why people would hate on mk or hate on sf or any game that really is not a bad a game. as for what has more depth well if you compare each game there certain areas to each were one succeeds more than the other and that would be decided by personal taste. I personaly perfer MK it always caught my attention more. as for the projectiles metion that each character has one and thats y it cant be a tournament fighter i will have to disagree there since not all projectiles work the same ex. Ice and liu kangs fire ball very differnt and used differntly too.

 

[Sasuga]

Kenshi doesn't have a projectile. He has ranged attacks but not a projectile.

 

[jamessmk]

As a somewhat avid MK fan, I am not crazy for dial-a-combo's. To ms they reward a player for remembering and set of input compared to creating his own. Mk9 unlike mk3 shorten them, this way putting more control of combo developing in the hands of the player and not the CPU. As far as hating, neither should be hated, they are both just two different type of monsters

 

[WhooFlungPoo]

Anyone wanna tackle the cross up issue? Just cause a fighter can't go through a character like SF you can still jump over and create a 50/50 guessing game, not to mention a blocked JiP can lead to throw. Since it's dial a combo any JiP can lead to a combo string on block, so they guess to block High or low. Is this not a cross up?

 

[CrashLand]

Anyone wanna tackle the cross up issue? Just cause a fighter can't go through a character like SF you can still jump over and create a 50/50 guessing game, not to mention a blocked JiP can lead to throw. Since it's dial a combo any JiP can lead to a combo string on block, so they guess to block High or low. Is this not a cross up?

SF-style ambiguous cross-ups just don't work in MK for a variety of reasons, block button being big on the list... that said, who cares...

Look here, it's a Dead or Alive fan raving about how shitty Street Fighter supposedly is: http://kaonazhie.wordpress.com/2010/05/05/why-street-fighter-sucks/

Haters gonna hate ya know, and the most ignorant ones are going to yell the loudest.

The ironic thing is that if you go to Shoryuken.com most of the comments about MK9 are something like: "Wow, NRS really got their act together and made a great game! I didn't expect much but it's awesome!" And then they go back to complaining about how awful they think SFIV and MvC3 are.

I'd recommend just playing the games... if you're having fun, I guess they can't be that bad?

 

[Why]

I think the diversity in characters is what gives the game depth. Notice that every character and their combos/playstyles are completely different while SF4 now has, what, 8 shoto fighters? That's like a fifth of the cast.

I would actually like some 1 frame links in MK though to justify some damage and add combo ability to MK.

There are some combos that use neutral jump punches that are very hard to get the timing right on, not sure if they're one frame links or not, or if the extra damage it does is worth it, but is that what you're looking for?