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RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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Yup there is a TESTYOURMIGHT room up right now.
 
That was a lot of fun guys, and thanks for the games!

I recorded the two hours I was there, which is now up on YouTube:

So do we want to set Saturdays at 4:00 pm eastern as the standard time for these Kasuals? And do we want to do this weekly? I also recommend we set it to a Private King of the Hill to avoid randoms joining.

@RoboCop @Evantabes @Gooberking
 

RoboCop

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That was a lot of fun guys, and thanks for the games!

I recorded the two hours I was there, which is now up on YouTube:

So do we want to set Saturdays at 4:00 pm eastern as the standard time for these Kasuals? And do we want to do this weekly? I also recommend we set it to a Private King of the Hill to avoid randoms joining.

@RoboCop @Evantabes @Gooberking
Oh wow, yeah I see that lag spike around the 44-minute mark. That was purely for the spectators, I had no lag so I doubt Roethor did either. That happens a lot of R1pper's stream. not sure what causes it.
 

RoboCop

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Sounds like R1perrr will be joining us for our next KOTH. I'd highly recommend labbing some anti-Shao tech because his Shao is a pretty huge sweat!
 

RoboCop

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I'm turning 38 on Thursday, the 23rd, and will almost certainly be doing a birthday stream most of the day. If anyone wants to get in some games, please hit me up!
 
Hey all,

Here's the video of yesterday's casuals for as long as I was present, excluding the match(es) when I was dropped from the King of the Hill, of course:

Thanks again for the games @RoboCop @Gooberking @Evantabes .

I'm going to keep with the game for a few weeks longer, but if it truly does eat simple enough inputs like pokes, I figure I'll probably end up moving on. I'm hoping it is just me and something I can adapt to, but from what you both were telling me I figure it's a game-issue, at least with online, which is such a shame. I should be playing against you guys, not fighting against the Controls.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Is there an issue with the PC and inputs? I've never had that issue with the game playing on the Xbox, personally. Not sure if others encounter the same issue
 
Is there an issue with the PC and inputs? I've never had that issue with the game playing on the Xbox, personally. Not sure if others encounter the same issue
At least offline, I haven't had any issues like what I'm describing above on PC. I really do hope it's just me though, and that it's something I can adjust to.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
At least offline, I haven't had any issues like what I'm describing above on PC. I really do hope it's just me though, and that it's something I can adjust to.
I only TLDR post

I think there are a lot of things that can make a game feel like it's "eating inputs."

- Not having enough buffering making timings so strict it feels unreliable; which would be a whole game level issue. They generally have added enough buffering in places that in and of itself that shouldn't be a problem once you get used to a game. So unlikely to be your problem

- Input timing shifting online. This game specifically adds 3 delay frames to inputs when online that changes all the timings. So you end up with things like the flawless window moving 3 frames later or counter poke timings being different. It's possible to know your counter poke timing offline but suddenly you fall outside of the buffer window online and now it comes out inconsistently. That's when people turn on the input delay option, so they don't have to learn two sets of timings.

- There is Rollback stress + v-sync. + 60hz. I don't think there is any way to know what the benchmark actually does, but it's possible it doesn't run the game while doing max rollback frames the whole time. When you hop online, rollback add extra CPU overhead and if your system occasionally misses frame delivery with V-Sync on OR you are using borderless window mode, then your game has to stop and wait for the next sync window before it can move on.. That's a long time if it's a 60hz monitor. Being a frame behind also has online implications for your opponent who's game may have to stop to wait for you to catch back up. Rollbacks specifically don't cover a player falling out of time sync.

If not already doing so try to run in exclusive Full Screen with V-Sync off when using a 60hz monitor. Adaptive sync tech can help, and so can lowering settings, and closing everything you can to give the system breathing room. Windows key + "G" will bring up the windows game bar if running and it recently added a "resources" widget to show you high impact processes running that may be affecting gaming. Or just use a high refresh rate, adaptive syncing monitor before using V-Sync. And I'm talking 165hz or more when saying high.

- Then there is the issue I've complained about since the Aftermath patch when online only, I get hitching in matches dragging my FPS AVERAGE down 5-8 frames. I point out average because it means the game is stalling long enough to show significant drops in the average. Like you could run 30 frames then stall for half a second and end up with 30fps average over 1 second which is a very different experience than 30 total spread out over one second evenly.

I've done everything possible to see if it was fixable on my end. I'm not the only one talking about it. I have a totally different computer at this point and not seen any improvement. I'm kind of suspicious that I'm actually running into GGPO spec wait states where my computer is having to wait on someone else's to catch back up. If one system falls behind the other has to literally stop and do nothing while the other catches up

Apparently that's the original GGPO strategy for dealing with systems falling out of time sync with one another. At least according to the stuff that came up when Skullgirls got their netcode improvement last year. Falling out of clock sync isn't the same thing as having to wait for inputs, and is way more likely for random computers than between identical consoles, but even v-sync on a system could push it behind a few ms at a time. It sounded like Skullgirls was doing something never done before to address this old problem and I recall it was a noticeable improvement for players who already had some of the best online. Given the timing, it seems unlikely NRS would have something similar in MK11, especially since (IIRC) one of the hallmarks of waiting on you opponent's rig is eaten inputs.

This issue sounds like something nobody can do anything about. Just hope everyone is running the game super well, and not dropping frames. I am dropping frames online, but I not sure if I'm the cause or the effect.

I'm done rambling about stuff I only half know about, and sure that anyone that tried reading it fell asleep along the way.
 
I'm done rambling about stuff I only half know about, and sure that anyone that tried reading it fell asleep along the way.
No, I didn't fall asleep at all; thanks for the informative read. I am using a 60Hz monitor, playing in 1080p, and in-game I have dynamic resolution off and both Vsync and Frame Skip on. As I recall, Frame Skip is forced on with online play regardless.

I actually posted on the official Discord asking for feedback, and some of the guys there watched some matches, and they're convinced it was not the game in these instances, but myself. Basically my timing was off when trying to poke, or I was trying to poke at points where I'd be beaten out (thus a lack of match up knowledge). Assuming they're correct, that means that what I was experiencing was me as opposed to the game, which is what I'd prefer since it means I can learn/adapt and improve my play.

Interestingly I played two Kombat League Sets yesterday, one of which had high ping (230-ish), and yet the match felt smooth. In both those Sets I didn't feel any inputs being eaten at all.

So I'll keep at it, and see how things go over the next few weeks.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
No, I didn't fall asleep at all; thanks for the informative read. I am using a 60Hz monitor, playing in 1080p, and in-game I have dynamic resolution off and both Vsync and Frame Skip on. As I recall, Frame Skip is forced on with online play regardless.

I actually posted on the official Discord asking for feedback, and some of the guys there watched some matches, and they're convinced it was not the game in these instances, but myself. Basically my timing was off when trying to poke, or I was trying to poke at points where I'd be beaten out (thus a lack of match up knowledge). Assuming they're correct, that means that what I was experiencing was me as opposed to the game, which is what I'd prefer since it means I can learn/adapt and improve my play.

Interestingly I played two Kombat League Sets yesterday, one of which had high ping (230-ish), and yet the match felt smooth. In both those Sets I didn't feel any inputs being eaten at all.

So I'll keep at it, and see how things go over the next few weeks.
Well, good luck. Most of that I cooked up over playing around with some issues and several monitors with differing abilities, and thinking through stuff. It's not like it's authoritative.
 

RoboCop

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I ended up replacing the Throw button on my hitbox. It kept not coming out during matches, so finally in training mode I was able to verify that it was only getting the input about half the time. It seems much better after replacing the button. This was maybe 2 months ago. But I doubt you're having a similar issue @Juxtapose

For other inputs, it's probably just a combination of off timings and possible rollback interference. I'm in the Arena Sets stream almost every day and see it happen to some of the best players on PS4. Whenever it happens to me, sure it's frustrating, but I just tell myself that it's probably won me uncountable matches from it happening to my opponent and I'm just not aware.

Overall, I found that when I cared about winning and losing in this game, my enjoyment of it completely vanished. It is not a fun competitive game. But as soon as I stopped worrying about the victories and just concentrated on enjoying the actual gameplay, my overall enjoyment of the game improved immensely. No longer was I frustrated getting bullied by Erron, Jacqui, and Kabal; rather it was more of a "let's see how good I can do in overcoming this bad matchup" and suddenly the actual winning or losing didn't matter anymore. It's like getting a high-score in an endless arcade game; I'm not trying to win, I'm just trying to see how well I can do. If you only care about those wins, things like the lost inputs are going to drive you insane.

One thing you might try, @Juxtapose, is to use this tool for viewing your inputs as you play. I know you like to record your matches, so just make a note of when you feel like your input was eaten and then go review aftewards. If it really was eaten by the game then you'll see it register in the overlay but not in the game. Or, you might be able to see that you did an input incorrectly, too quickly, or too early/late.
 
If you only care about those wins, things like the lost inputs are going to drive you insane.
To clarify, I actually don't care about the wins themselves, and hope I haven't come off that way.

For me, any competitive or skill based game is about learning, improving, and pushing yourself. It's about being your personal best and overcoming your own limitations, including deceptive mental blocks we create for ourselves.

If you watch my Killer Instinct casuals, you'll see I oft go 0-10 in them, but I'm having a blast playing against better players, testing myself, and making improvements.

I once went 0-40 in StarCraft II, and it was an extremely valuable learning experience.

The difference here, as I've mentioned before, is I often feel like I'm fighting with the game and its design/implementation. I don't feel I'm learning, improving, or even in a position to do so and push myself if the game itself is being the limiting factor. The fun I get from self-improvement and challenge isn't possible in that situation.

That's actually why I abandoned the game competitively a year ago, though I decided to give it another honest go since some things have changed in design.

Hopefully that makes more sense.
 

RoboCop

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To clarify, I actually don't care about the wins themselves, and hope I haven't come off that way.

For me, any competitive or skill based game is about learning, improving, and pushing yourself. It's about being your personal best and overcoming your own limitations, including deceptive mental blocks we create for ourselves.

If you watch my Killer Instinct casuals, you'll see I oft go 0-10 in them, but I'm having a blast playing against better players, testing myself, and making improvements.

I once went 0-40 in StarCraft II, and it was an extremely valuable learning experience.

The difference here, as I've mentioned before, is I often feel like I'm fighting with the game and its design/implementation. I don't feel I'm learning, improving, or even in a position to do so and push myself if the game itself is being the limiting factor. The fun I get from self-improvement and challenge isn't possible in that situation.

That's actually why I abandoned the game competitively a year ago, though I decided to give it another honest go since some things have changed in design.

Hopefully that makes more sense.
Gotcha, that makes sense.
 

RoboCop

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I have played on PC for years and suddenly everything became easier when I plugged in a controller. Suddenly was landing combos easily I never could execute on keyboard. I don't know how some of you do it.
I play on a Hitbox, but there are plenty of standard controllers and fightpads that work great on PC.
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
I may join in tomorrow depending on how my schedule looks. If I do join, I promise that my stance swaps are not me being disrespectful but instead are just my dumb monkey brain thinking I'm playing Guilty Gear.