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MK11 Kano Discussion

SwiftEagle

Apprentice
The point is why? the character is already messed up. No good mids, no good real mixups, just a bunch of yolo 50/50's and now a completely nerfed CMD.
Character bias by the developers. Scrub friendly characters like Scorpion Geras can guarantee the younger players and casuals in general easy wins. There's no incentive for them to play if they keep getting their asses beat. If they have a fighting chance, they'll stick around, and probably by time crystals too. On top of this, the developers have admitted to loving the ninja characters. That's why they never get touched when the patches roll in, but there's changes for everyone else.
 

CO-KANO

psn: UNFUCxWITABLE_1
Yo, ive been having more and more difficulties beating other players, seems like now that theyve learned the matchup, its easier for them to counter and punish kano...how is everyone navigating the closing skill gap and how do you approach a situation in regards to footsies, rushdown and defense. Help. Heres a video of some gameplay let me know how yall feel.
 

SwiftEagle

Apprentice
Yo, ive been having more and more difficulties beating other players, seems like now that theyve learned the matchup, its easier for them to counter and punish kano...how is everyone navigating the closing skill gap and how do you approach a situation in regards to footsies, rushdown and defense. Help. Heres a video of some gameplay let me know how yall feel. N
It's the same thing with all the low tier characters. They're getting worse as the weeks go by. Without a mid starter you just have to space a lot and a Bauer the hell out of B3 to get in.
 
As I stated in my forum a while back. Enjoy the wins now because It's gonna get harder once people know how to beat him. I've been beating top players with Kano. However, it's due to the following
  1. Opponents mistakes
  2. Opponents not properly punishing me or respecting me too much.
If someone isn't making a ton of mistakes and respecting me, then its no way I'll be winning as much as I am. When I get beat badly, it's extremely convincing, demoralizing, and nothing I could do to prevent the ass beating. I watch my matches over to learn and I'm not really getting much for it because my options are so limited. Just hope they fuck up and good luck.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Just started learning Kano. I have some questions:

What is the purpose of b1? I understand that if they mash d1 that b1 will beat it after your own d1 om hit, and that it is special cancellable. However, I feel like you get a bigger reward for using f2 after a d1 on hit. How should I use b1?

Likewise, What is b2 for? It seems slow for an anti-air and is very unsafe. The damage off it feels pretty whatever. What's the best way to implement it?
 

kcd117

Kombatant
Just started learning Kano. I have some questions:

What is the purpose of b1? I understand that if they mash d1 that b1 will beat it after your own d1 om hit, and that it is special cancellable. However, I feel like you get a bigger reward for using f2 after a d1 on hit. How should I use b1?

Likewise, What is b2 for? It seems slow for an anti-air and is very unsafe. The damage off it feels pretty whatever. What's the best way to implement it?
I feel like purpose-wise his moveset would be very complete if not for his frame data being garbage.

I use his B1 xx knife toss a lot when I want to create space to zone people a bit.
 

CO-KANO

psn: UNFUCxWITABLE_1
Seems like more and more people are quitting with the more i play kano ,
This week’s fighting matches it was like 30 people that quit. Are people that upset with kano’s playstyle?
 
I'd played 512 matches online as Kano before I saw my first Quitality. The majority of messages from opponents have been remarkably friendly too; Kongeniality! My win rate is only around 54% though so I'm only giving the incentive to rage quit to half of my foes.

I'm new to the series from a competitive standpoint, despite playing since the original in arcades; what are Kano's best anti-air options? D2 is strong enough but I find I frequently get beaten out by regular ol' jumping kicks. I am yet to drill the timing but I feel there might be a more reliable choice I'm overlooking? Are there buttons which can low-profile a jump-in attempt?

B2 works if I'm really early (or guess correctly) and there's combo opportunity after but I've not built awareness for it yet. How are his standing 3 or 4? Or should I just jab 1 into a juggle?
 

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
My win/lose rate with Kano isn't very impressive neither. I got my first quitalities mostly in the first weeks, but now i feel that people know better the matchup and is becoming increasingly harder to get my wins. However, I absolutely love the character concept and gameplan in MK11, regardless of his flaws (specially if compared to the top tiers).

As for the anti-airs, I go mostly for S1,F1xxDBF2 or S1,F1xxBF3. For people jumping from afar I go for S3, F1 or B2, but I only use B2 for predictable players if I read a jump in.
 

SwiftEagle

Apprentice
My win/lose rate with Kano isn't very impressive neither. I got my first quitalities mostly in the first weeks, but now i feel that people know better the matchup and is becoming increasingly harder to get my wins. However, I absolutely love the character concept and gameplan in MK11, regardless of his flaws (specially if compared to the top tiers).

As for the anti-airs, I go mostly for S1,F1xxDBF2 or S1,F1xxBF3. For people jumping from afar I go for S3, F1 or B2, but I only use B2 for predictable players if I read a jump in.
Johnny Cage suffers from the same issue. The longer the game is out, the harder it's getting to win. The only option is to play twice as much as everyone else, because you can't make mistakes.
 

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
Just started learning Kano. I have some questions:

What is the purpose of b1? I understand that if they mash d1 that b1 will beat it after your own d1 om hit, and that it is special cancellable. However, I feel like you get a bigger reward for using f2 after a d1 on hit. How should I use b1?

Likewise, What is b2 for? It seems slow for an anti-air and is very unsafe. The damage off it feels pretty whatever. What's the best way to implement it?
I use b1 mostly as an spacing tool. Even taking on account its long recovery, I find it very useful against aggressive players. On hit or even on block, I alternate blade toss cancels and back dash cancels into a B3 or B2, that catches a lot of those heavy rush down players trying to conterattack inmediately (usually they cannot close the gap fast enough and I go for the whiff punish).

As for b2, appart from this, I only use it as an anti air if I make a read. It is useful too for punishing very unsafe movements with some pushback, like that Liu's Dragon Kick, or Sub Zero Slide.
Johnny Cage suffers from the same issue. The longer the game is out, the harder it's getting to win. The only option is to play twice as much as everyone else, because you can't make mistakes.
Yeah, I don't know Johnny as much, but I feel that both Kano and Johnny are honest and balanced chars (having balanced strengths and weaknesses) that naturally need work in order to win. In my humble opinion, the game is balanced and I believe that these chars don't need great buffs, only minor adjustments (at least in the case of Kano). As many others have said, I'd be happy with S2 being a mid, as in its current state, the string 24(1+3) has two flaws: starting with a high and having a noticeable gap between 4 and (1+3). Being one of his main tools, I feel that having two flaws in the same string is a bit too much.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
I think I settled on Kano for my secondary, are you all mostly using Kustom or the tourney variations?

I am not that attached to his manhandled moves all that much so I've been using Snake Bite and Lumbar Check you can get some crazy fun combos, but I feel like manhandled moves are better for pressuring opponents that block and turtle a lot.
 

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
I think I settled on Kano for my secondary, are you all mostly using Kustom or the tourney variations?

I am not that attached to his manhandled moves all that much so I've been using Snake Bite and Lumbar Check you can get some crazy fun combos, but I feel like manhandled moves are better for pressuring opponents that block and turtle a lot.
In my case, I use ripper tourney variation (mostly). Snake Bite is good, but i prefer manhadled over it, mainly because of the (pseudo)mixups and the opportunity to include Rack Off and Lumbar Check in the loadout.
Manhandled, as you said, is good for pressure and condition your opponents, playing a kind of 50/50, between 24(3+1) and 24xxDBF2. In addition, without manhandled, I always miss the F43 string.
The main problem with 24(1+3) is that S2 is a high. To avoid possible punishes I abuse pokes and B3's in order to condition the opponent. Theoretically, D1 jails into 2, but it’s a 1frame link almost impossible to get online (at least for me). In any case, note that the startup of 24 is only 11 frames and 22 is only 14, so it´s impossible to punish 2 after a successful D1, even if the opponent goes for a neutral crouch (if he/she tries to hit you, he/she eats your next hit). Then, you can get your 50/50, opting either for 1+3 for a full combo, or your command grab.

PD: By the way, my secondary is Cassie (although I'm still trash with her), so, looking at your avatar, its seems that we have our mains inverted. XD
 
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Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
In my case, I use ripper tourney variation (mostly). Snake Bite is good, but i prefer manhadled over it, mainly because of the (pseudo)mixups and the opportunity to include Rack Off and Lumbar Check in the loadout.
Manhandled, as you said, is good for pressure and condition your opponents, playing a kind of 50/50, between 24(3+1) and 24xxDBF2. In addition, without manhandled, I always miss the F43 string.
The main problem with 24(1+3) is that S2 is a high. To avoid possible punishes I abuse pokes and B3's in order to condition the opponent. Theoretically, D1 jails into 2, but it’s a 1frame link almost impossible to get online (at least for me). In any case, note that the startup of 24 is only 11 frames and 22 is only 14, so it´s impossible to punish 2 after a successful D1, even if the opponent goes for a neutral crouch (if he/she tries to hit you, he/she eats your next hit). Then, you can get your 50/50, opting either for 1+3 for a full combo, or your command grab.

PD: By the way, my secondary is Cassie (although I'm still trash with her), so, looking at your avatar, its seems that we have our mains inverted. XD
Yeah, most of his good tools are highs, like his F1 I think is an advancing move but it's a high (and I think it may stagger?) I use a grab after it hits. I think I'm going to experiment more with his variations since the only real set I played was with his Ripper variation. Tho I tried out his laser beam instead of the knife throw and it's kinda sweet that it KBs and it looks awesome.

Ahahahah! Yeah we do!
 

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
In my case, I use ripper tourney variation (mostly). Snake Bite is good, but i prefer manhadled over it, mainly because of the (pseudo)mixups and the opportunity to include Rack Off and Lumbar Check in the loadout.
Manhandled, as you said, is good for pressure and condition your opponents, playing a kind of 50/50, between 24(3+1) and 24xxDBF2. In addition, without manhandled, I always miss the F43 string.
The main problem with 24(1+3) is that S2 is a high. To avoid possible punishes I abuse pokes and B3's in order to condition the opponent. Theoretically, D1 jails into 2, but it’s a 1frame link almost impossible to get online (at least for me). In any case, note that the startup of 24 is only 11 frames and 22 is only 14, so it´s impossible to punish 2 after a successful D1, even if the opponent goes for a neutral crouch (if he/she tries to hit you, he/she eats your next hit). Then, you can get your 50/50, opting either for 1+3 for a full combo, or your command grab.

PD: By the way, my secondary is Cassie (although I'm still trash with her), so, looking at your avatar, its seems that we have our mains inverted. XD
Kano really feels like someone that would benefit greatly from custom variations being tournament-legal.