What's new

MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

Going to be tough to say until we get out there and get working. I can speak to one MU though. Geras....Cage definitely doesn't win that one anymore. It's likely a losing MU for Cage at this point.
The only big change I see is us not being able to low profile 2,1,2 anymore. I think his new requirements for the sand trap KB are honestly okay in that he is punishable when he is missing them and it presumably goes away when you block it. Maybe this goes back to even, but I don’t see it being losing.
 
The only big change I see is us not being able to low profile 2,1,2 anymore. I think his new requirements for the sand trap KB are honestly okay in that he is punishable when he is missing them and it presumably goes away when you block it. Maybe this goes back to even, but I don’t see it being losing.
I can definitely see Johnny losing now. He won because he made geras main pressure string whiff and nothing whiffed against geras. Now u have to deal with f212 pressure and mind games and that 6 frame d1 that can disrespect Johnny plus frames. Geras also has the benefits of having practical KBs, thats nice for him
 
i don't think he has a single winning matchup now.
I don’t know if that is true but even if it is, I feel like we got closer to being 5-5 with the entire cast after the patch rather than further away from it. That’s all I really want is us to be 5-5 with everyone. Bare minimum, Cassie, Jacqui, Erron and Scorpion became way easier to deal with. We got some small wins against some other characters and besides forceballs, none of our other moves whiff now. I wanted more for Johnny too but I think his viability after the patch went up a bit more than people think.
 
I tried some of the stuff posted here, and a lot of it works now, aside from trying to use camera flash after B3. I just don't see myself coming around to using Cage without hitting somebody below the belt. I'm too used to it lol. I wish they would've based one of his variations on his command grab somehow. It has Cage's best brutality too.
 
I can definitely see Johnny losing now. He won because he made geras main pressure string whiff and nothing whiffed against geras. Now u have to deal with f212 pressure and mind games and that 6 frame d1 that can disrespect Johnny plus frames. Geras also has the benefits of having practical KBs, thats nice for him
Is there anything special he has against us? I feel like this is a 5-5 at worst unless Geras is 6-4 against everyone. Seems like a pretty standard matchup for both characters after the patch.
 
Is there anything special he has against us? I feel like this is a 5-5 at worst unless Geras is 6-4 against everyone. Seems like a pretty standard matchup for both characters after the patch.
KBs win games and geras is just a better character. Out damages johnny. Can't really zone him that much and his 6 frame d1 means he has the best chance of striking first. But im too salty right now from these Johnny "buffs". So I'm going off speculation atm
 

Madog32

PSN: ImaGiveItToUBaby
The only big change I see is us not being able to low profile 2,1,2 anymore. I think his new requirements for the sand trap KB are honestly okay in that he is punishable when he is missing them and it presumably goes away when you block it. Maybe this goes back to even, but I don’t see it being losing.
Wow cool. Is this actually the case?
 
I set the ai (cassie) to crouch block and did f344 ex ball and it made her stand up on the 44 and jailed forceball. This is correct right? I only had like 2 min to test.
AI is bad in that situation.
I set Johnny Cage doing F344xxBF2 AMP and REALLY crouch blocked the string and forceball whiffed as usual. Nothing changed.
 
Guys you gave me hope about Showstopper. I will give him a new try for sure. The problem is that I don't trust my execution for Fatal Blow cancels combos, so I'll have to work on that.

By the way... The more I play Johnny, the more I land the f43 KB. I don't know if people are so sure that I will not try it that they release the block button or I just make good reads but I didn't know it could work that much. it doesn't mean that the requirement is okay, because it's not, but I think it is not THAT useless.

Against Kabal, if you read the air projectile, then f43 and it's a free KB
 
Hi all. Been Johnny main since arma. Can anyone tell me if his jailing has changed since the patch. Like down 3 into f344? Is this stuff easier to pull off?
 

Snibbor

Yarrrr Matey
Hi all. Been Johnny main since arma. Can anyone tell me if his jailing has changed since the patch. Like down 3 into f344? Is this stuff easier to pull off?
Pretty sure d3 is only +10 or so, which means it will not jail into f3 and your opponent can poke out of it. D4 on hit still jails a f3. The patch really didn’t do a whole lot for Johnny except a few minor things, and people are saying it’s made showstopper a more viable variation now.
 
Pretty sure d3 is only +10 or so, which means it will not jail into f3 and your opponent can poke out of it. D4 on hit still jails a f3. The patch really didn’t do a whole lot for Johnny except a few minor things, and people are saying it’s made showstopper a more viable variation now.
Oh man this hurts. I played a bunch of matches on kL last night and got my ass handed to me . Went 3w 4L still about as good as I do before the patch. But it’s who I lost to that hurt. Kollector and Kotal... and devorah. It could be I never play against them that did me in. But still idk if it got tougher for cage or easier. Kinda soon to tell.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Ok, so, apart from the fact that FORCEBALLS DO NOT WORK, I tried FB cancels a bit.

So I tried the following strings with the following combo: f344 -> FBC -> <string> -> glassesKB -> f344 amp camera -> j2 b2 f3 121 shadow kick.

For the <string> part we have:

a) 12 - damage : 457.93
The best string to use, ever, especially online. Since we don't have an f1, it will always come out straight out of the dash cancel and the frame window is EXTREMELY generous you can even do it in 150 ping.

b) 233 - damage : 456.37
This string suffers from the same problem as 34, as you need to dash clean and not hold forward as you do the string(otherwise you will get f2 and fail). However, because of the fast startup of 2, it's a lot more easier than 34. However, the damage scaling is worse than 12, and it's harder to do, so literally no reason to do this ever

c) f344 - damage: 472.66
This string, although f3 is a lot more slower than 3, will come out straight out of the dash cancel and it actually feels easier to do than 34. The damage is nice to, so I would most surely choose this approach offline.

d) 34 - damage: 497.84
The best one although the hardest one to pull off, it gives you the biggest damage but you need to actually grind your ass off to do it, and online in >100 ping I wish you the best of luck. You need to clean dash cancel with exact 2 forwards and lift your finger off the direction as you do 34 (otherwise you will get f3 and lose). It feels horrible imo and I would only go for this if you have a shitload of time to practice at home to become a pro.

In conclusion, if you're not extremely elitist, f344 is the way to go offline as you only lose 2.5% damage.

However, if you really want to just do the combo and do not care about timing and online, I suggest just doing 12. It is a 4% damage difference indeed, but if you have to choose between losing 4% or dropping the combo and getting teabagged, I would suggest you choose losing 4%.

Happy canceling.
 

Owerbart

I miss you
Is there anything special he has against us? I feel like this is a 5-5 at worst unless Geras is 6-4 against everyone. Seems like a pretty standard matchup for both characters after the patch.
it's not that he's saying Geras some special tech against Johnny. It's a losing matchup for Johnny now because Geras is just a better character overall. Imagine a Formula 1 Car vs a bike. Nothing wrong with a Bike, it's just that a Formula 1 Car is faster.
 

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
Ok, so, apart from the fact that FORCEBALLS DO NOT WORK, I tried FB cancels a bit.

So I tried the following strings with the following combo: f344 -> FBC -> <string> -> glassesKB -> f344 amp camera -> j2 b2 f3 121 shadow kick.

For the <string> part we have:

a) 12 - damage : 457.93
The best string to use, ever, especially online. Since we don't have an f1, it will always come out straight out of the dash cancel and the frame window is EXTREMELY generous you can even do it in 150 ping.

b) 233 - damage : 456.37
This string suffers from the same problem as 34, as you need to dash clean and not hold forward as you do the string(otherwise you will get f2 and fail). However, because of the fast startup of 2, it's a lot more easier than 34. However, the damage scaling is worse than 12, and it's harder to do, so literally no reason to do this ever

c) f344 - damage: 472.66
This string, although f3 is a lot more slower than 3, will come out straight out of the dash cancel and it actually feels easier to do than 34. The damage is nice to, so I would most surely choose this approach offline.

d) 34 - damage: 497.84
The best one although the hardest one to pull off, it gives you the biggest damage but you need to actually grind your ass off to do it, and online in >100 ping I wish you the best of luck. You need to clean dash cancel with exact 2 forwards and lift your finger off the direction as you do 34 (otherwise you will get f3 and lose). It feels horrible imo and I would only go for this if you have a shitload of time to practice at home to become a pro.

In conclusion, if you're not extremely elitist, f344 is the way to go offline as you only lose 2.5% damage.

However, if you really want to just do the combo and do not care about timing and online, I suggest just doing 12. It is a 4% damage difference indeed, but if you have to choose between losing 4% or dropping the combo and getting teabagged, I would suggest you choose losing 4%.

Happy canceling.
Great stuff, thanks.

I was trying to do the 34 follow-up, but it always seems to go to F344 instead. I'm not able to do it right now since I'm away from my PS4 so I'm not able to check the damage that it does in comparison to the other options, but I was labbing it last night and I know that you can also follow up the FBC with his F4 into the Glasses KB.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Frost is 100% no doubt a 3-7 now. You can't zone her, your buttons don't even begin to compete, and of course shit balls whiff.
Cage should have an 11f mid, period. I held out on saying this before, but after the patch it's clear NRS has no problems tossing out faster mids like confetti, if Frost gets to have an 11f mid starting hit confirmable string that's half screen pushback, then cage's f3 has no reason whatsoever to be a high in this game. Fuck me, even D'VORAH got a faster mid, and that shit hits you across the atlantic.
The universal changes in combination with all the low tier buffs just destroyed him, now that downpokes are better universally you get fucked by downpokes even more. It's fucking egregious that you have to punish these stupid ass pokes on a hard read because your only options to stuff them are brutally bad on whiff. Jump ins aren't even worth it because you might as well be the fucking floor when you're d4ing. What a joke, man.
Edit 2: his grab is still the absolute worst in the game. Not only does he lack a good mid to not get cucked in the chin trying them, but NEITHER have a single KB or any oki.
I'm just astounded that people still think this character is good. How is he good?
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Frost is 100% no doubt a 3-7 now. You can't zone her, your buttons don't even begin to compete, and of course shit balls whiff.
Cage should have an 11f mid, period. I held out on saying this before, but after the patch it's clear NRS has no problems tossing out faster mids like confetti, if Frost gets to have an 11f mid starting hit confirmable string that's half screen pushback, then cage's f3 has no reason whatsoever to be a high in this game. Fuck me, even D'VORAH got a faster mid, and that shit hits you across the atlantic.
The universal changes in combination with all the low tier buffs just destroyed him, now that downpokes are better universally you get fucked by downpokes even more.
Yeah, I was holding out hope that F2was going to be changed to a mid. It’s disheartening.

Played a bunch of KL when I got home. Played 3 Jacquis in a row. I basically wanted to drop kick the controller. She gets to be so awesome....her nerfs meant nothing.
 
Frost is 100% no doubt a 3-7 now. You can't zone her, your buttons don't even begin to compete, and of course shit balls whiff.
Cage should have an 11f mid, period. I held out on saying this before, but after the patch it's clear NRS has no problems tossing out faster mids like confetti, if Frost gets to have an 11f mid starting hit confirmable string that's half screen pushback, then cage's f3 has no reason whatsoever to be a high in this game. Fuck me, even D'VORAH got a faster mid, and that shit hits you across the atlantic.
The universal changes in combination with all the low tier buffs just destroyed him, now that downpokes are better universally you get fucked by downpokes even more. It's fucking egregious that you have to punish these stupid ass pokes on a hard read because your only options to stuff them are brutally bad on whiff. Jump ins aren't even worth it because you might as well be the fucking floor when you're d4ing. What a joke, man.
Edit 2: his grab is still the absolute worst in the game. Not only does he lack a good mid to not get cucked in the chin trying them, but NEITHER have a single KB or any oki.
I'm just astounded that people still think this character is good. How is he good?
I honestly think it’s people riding Kombats clout and a mixture of stubborn people/people not wanting to be annoyed by shills.
 

Owerbart

I miss you
just played a little bit of KL with showstopper (god roght now) and god is that variation still dreadful. Getting camera out is literally impossible. And it is still shitty to link from an aa.

i don't know how kotal is doing but this kharacter was literally left untouched.