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Mileena is fun but doesn't have what it takes to win a major, here's why

REO

Undead
I've been playing only Mileena for 95% of the time the past few weeks and here are her worst match-ups from bad to terrible:


Jade: 5.5 : 4.5 - She negates all forms of sais with shadows on reaction and there's nothing you can do to prevent her from getting mid-screen. Mid-screen she's dumb, you have to deal with her U+3 all day and there's nothing you can do about it besides random rolls and teleport drops which is more harm than good.

Shang Tsung: 5.5 : 4.5 - His ground skull makes it so you can't use sais at him without risk of being popped up, you have to constantly rush him down and do a ton of random teleport kicks to stop him from controlling the match. With Mileena's slow normals and Shang's pressure up close always leaving him at an advantage it's tough to get anything going.

Nightwolf: 6 : 4 - Nightwolf's reflector shuts down ground sais and his shoulder shuts down air sais, so you have to play a grounded mid-screen game. His F+3 normal goes over and crushes Mileena's D+4 and makes you never want to throw it out in risk of eating 40% just for a 3% poke.

Smoke: 6 : 4 - Smoke shuts down ground sais with his shake and can punish air sais with teleport on reaction. He can turtle while building meter with his teleports and smoke bombs. Smoke bomb also stuffs teleport drop since Mileena goes into the ground before teleporting. Overall he's just annoying and Mileena struggles when she's forced to constantly rushdown with random teleport drops and her slow normals.

Kano: 6 : 4 - It's really tough to punish Kano's up ball on reaction, sometimes it's so strict I don't even attempt to go for a roll since the risk is him recovering in time and then counter punishing me. He can throw knives purposely when you throw sais and always win the trade since Mileena's sais do 6% and Kano's knives do 9%.

Raiden: 7 : 3 - This match is just stupid, you're forced to sit their and block or jump around like a maniac. I like to switch between the two but overall there isn't much you can do since Raiden can counter just about everything you do on reaction. His vicinity traps work on Mileena so it's hell if you're ever stuck in frame traps and he just controls the match way too much for you to ever get a momentum started.

Kung Lao: 8 : 2 - It's like Kung Lao was designed to rape Mileena. He has every damn tool in the book that counters anything she can do, just a pointless match up to even consider playing through, IMO. His F+3 goes under air sais and he can hit confirm into spins for combos, dive kicks beat ground sais, teleports just give him to many options that EVEN when you know he is teleporting you have to guess if he's going to do an instant 3 then be left at advantage or 2 and many other specifics. Spin punishes ANYTHING she does (even counters D+4 range), including her enhanced teleport drop. So you are stuck playing defensive in block while he builds meter constantly chipping you to death and crossing you up. Once he has x-ray just put the controller down because you aren't doing shit.




I can go into way more depth about these chars but just wanted to make it as breif and straight to the point as possible. Considering some of these chars are very popular in tourneys you would see why you would need back-up chars to fight some of them. And if anyone wants to know what I used to come up with some of the match-up info it's from playing people who use a certain char really good from playing both off-line and online.
 

AIBOSTON

Don't be mad!
I dont know about that. I play Mileena 100% of the time. And I dont really have alot of problems VS the cast of characters you named. My problem is I get bored quickly and start attacking ramdomly. But normally I dont have a problem with any of them.
 

DIRTY

Mortal
Thanks REO, Awesome info. I've experience the Mileena Jade frustration first hand against a friend of mine with a nasty Jade. That match is a biatch. Everything you posted will be quite helpful when using my purple b*tch, Thanks again. :)
 

TheChad_87

Bad Reputation
I play Cyrax, Mileena, and Jade.

I mostly agree with all of this. Kung Lao is a NIGHTMARE! I don't think Shang is any worse than 5:5 though. I do think Jade is 6:4. It's tough to deal with her no matter what I do -_-

Glad you're using Mileena. I really think she has potential.

Also, thoughts on these?

Mileena v Kabal: 4:6, maybe even 3:7
Mileena v Reptile: 7:3
Mileena v Scorpion: 5:5
Mileena v Sheeva: 7:3
 

Gamin_Guru

Shang Bang
Surprised Shang gives you trouble as Mileena. My experience is Mileena can completely control the fight and lock me down. Prevents jump ins with D+3/4, slow start up of skulls can be punished with teleport and just an overall headache for me to fight. Guess I need to train harder.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I've been playing only Mileena for 95% of the time the past few weeks and here are her worst match-ups from bad to terrible:


Jade: 5.5 : 4.5 - She negates all forms of sais with shadows on reaction and there's nothing you can do to prevent her from getting mid-screen. Mid-screen she's dumb, you have to deal with her U+3 all day and there's nothing you can do about it besides random rolls and teleport drops which is more harm than good.

Shang Tsung: 5.5 : 4.5 - His ground skull makes it so you can't use sais at him without risk of being popped up, you have to constantly rush him down and do a ton of random teleport kicks to stop him from controlling the match. With Mileena's slow normals and Shang's pressure up close always leaving him at an advantage it's tough to get anything going.

Nightwolf: 6 : 4 - Nightwolf's reflector shuts down ground sais and his shoulder shuts down air sais, so you have to play a grounded mid-screen game. His F+3 normal goes over and crushes Mileena's D+4 and makes you never want to throw it out in risk of eating 40% just for a 3% poke.

Smoke: 6 : 4 - Smoke shuts down ground sais with his shake and can punish air sais with teleport on reaction. He can turtle while building meter with his teleports and smoke bombs. Smoke bomb also stuffs teleport drop since Mileena goes into the ground before teleporting. Overall he's just annoying and Mileena struggles when she's forced to constantly rushdown with random teleport drops and her slow normals.

Kano: 6 : 4 - It's really tough to punish Kano's up ball on reaction, sometimes it's so strict I don't even attempt to go for a roll since the risk is him recovering in time and then counter punishing me. He can throw knives purposely when you throw sais and always win the trade since Mileena's sais do 6% and Kano's knives do 9%.

Raiden: 7 : 3 - This match is just stupid, you're forced to sit their and block or jump around like a maniac. I like to switch between the two but overall there isn't much you can do since Raiden can counter just about everything you do on reaction. His vicinity traps work on Mileena so it's hell if you're ever stuck in frame traps and he just controls the match way too much for you to ever get a momentum started.

Kung Lao: 8 : 2 - It's like Kung Lao was designed to rape Mileena. He has every damn tool in the book that counters anything she can do, just a pointless match up to even consider playing through, IMO. His F+3 goes under air sais and he can hit confirm into spins for combos, dive kicks beat ground sais, teleports just give him to many options that EVEN when you know he is teleporting you have to guess if he's going to do an instant 3 then be left at advantage or 2 and many other specifics. Spin punishes ANYTHING she does (even counters D+4 range), including her enhanced teleport drop. So you are stuck playing defensive in block while he builds meter constantly chipping you to death and crossing you up. Once he has x-ray just put the controller down because you aren't doing shit.




I can go into way more depth about these chars but just wanted to make it as breif and straight to the point as possible. Considering some of these chars are very popular in tourneys you would see why you would need back-up chars to fight some of them. And if anyone wants to know what I used to come up with some of the match-up info it's from playing people who use a certain char really good from playing both off-line and online.
Great write up man

Look forward to discussing this in detail at evo

So who u rolling with? Cage?
 

truendymion

Apprentice
Kung Lao is designed to rape the entire cast lol! The only thing I would change about him is to make his spin super punishable just like Sub Ice Ball or Scrop Spear. He would still have all the tools to rape everyone, just not so stupid.
 

REO

Undead
I dont know about that. I play Mileena 100% of the time. And I dont really have alot of problems VS the cast of characters you named. My problem is I get bored quickly and start attacking ramdomly. But normally I dont have a problem with any of them.
It depends on who you're playing. Some random guy off the street isn't gonna beat someone who mains Mileena with Kung Lao regardless of how bad the match-up is. But if you take someone who mains Kung Lao for as long as you used Mileena, is around your level, and he has experience in the match-up, then all I can say is good luck.

I play Cyrax, Mileena, and Jade.

I mostly agree with all of this. Kung Lao is a NIGHTMARE! I don't think Shang is any worse than 5:5 though. I do think Jade is 6:4. It's tough to deal with her no matter what I do -_-

Glad you're using Mileena. I really think she has potential.

Also, thoughts on these?

Mileena v Kabal: 4:6, maybe even 3:7
Mileena v Reptile: 7:3
Mileena v Scorpion: 5:5
Mileena v Sheeva: 7:3
I feel Mileena against Kabal is 5 : 5 because they both have options to counter eachother, it mostly depends on who reads the other person better. Jade could be 6 : 4, the rest I agree with.

Awesome write up. So where does your custom 12 sided coin land when you flip it at EVO then?
Well I'm so comfortable with Mileena I can't really just drop her for a "better" char, but if there was a char I would use for a backup, it'd be Cage since he's my second best char. I've been working on Jade and Kitana as my secondaries but they're no where near ready for anything, yet.

Great write up man

Look forward to discussing this in detail at evo

So who u rolling with? Cage?
Mileena mainly, some of the match-ups like Smoke or whoever then I'll probably need to use Cage.

Surprised Shang gives you trouble as Mileena. My experience is Mileena can completely control the fight and lock me down. Prevents jump ins with D+3/4, slow start up of skulls can be punished with teleport and just an overall headache for me to fight. Guess I need to train harder.
If you see Mileena abusing D+4 on you, just do a close ground skull and she will have to think twice before throwing that poke out. Shang can use up skulls to counter react sais on trade similar to Kano, he wins the trade since his do 9%. Also his morph is pretty good in this match since Mileena is great against Mileena, lol.
 

Loot

the special effects
Kung Lao is designed to rape the entire cast lol! The only thing I would change about him is to make his spin super punishable just like Sub Ice Ball or Scrop Spear. He would still have all the tools to rape everyone, just not so stupid.
His spin is already super punishable, dunno why people think this is his best tool.
 

shura30

Shura
Kung Lao: 8 : 2 - It's like Kung Lao was designed to rape everyone. He has every damn tool in the book that counters anything everyone can do, just a pointless match up to even consider playing through, IMO.Spin punishes ANYTHING everyone does , So you are stuck playing defensive in block while he builds meter constantly chipping you to death and crossing you up. Once he has x-ray just put the controller down because you aren't doing shit.
fixed
 

Eazail

Mortal
I actually have alot of trouble against Milena using kung lao. I had more success using subzero. What am I doing wrong? I can't seen to punish her enhanced kick either, outside of a d1. How should I be using kung lao against her?
 

ZeroEffect

Warrior
Jade: 5.5 : 4.5 - She negates all forms of sais with shadows on reaction and there's nothing you can do to prevent her from getting mid-screen. Mid-screen she's dumb, you have to deal with her U+3 all day and there's nothing you can do about it besides random rolls and teleport drops which is more harm than good.
So... maybe now people will listen to me about Jade.
 

Abudabi

Mortal
geeze in high level play mileena vs these chararacters, shes really fucked. Then again I'd love for a tournament player to prove this wrong and unleash the awesome.
 

xQCBx

HxC Femme-Fatale
His spin is already super punishable, dunno why people think this is his best tool.
When it's used properly, it becomes one of THE best tools in the entire game.
Not to mention punishing with it grants combo damage.

I dont know about that. I play Mileena 100% of the time. And I dont really have alot of problems VS the cast of characters you named. My problem is I get bored quickly and start attacking ramdomly. But normally I dont have a problem with any of them.
I don't think you've attended any majors, or have played any honestly-skilled players then.

Mileena is only a tank when you control the match, and have conquered both Mental, and Technical games during the match. Other than that, it's pure skill and ability to overcome the opponent. I wish I had gotten the chance to play REO at ECT3, but unfortunately I couldn't. Everything he mentioned is true to the very last period.
Mileena is an underdog, shoutout to those who rep for her.

And shoutouts to REO again, for this eye-opening and honest write-up.
Good luck at EVO, unfortunately i don't have the expenses to attend.
So I'll just be another player in the shadows this year. x[
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
REO, thanks for the write up.

The game needs a patch for Kung Lao. I've already talked to Tom and he agrees. The spin is by far the dumbest move in the game. It's like an LP Tiger Uppercut that hits in three different directions... that launches for almost 40% of damage. One way to make it balance would be to remove its "back" active frames, so that Kung Lao has to deal with cross ups like 99% of characters in the game.
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
lol I think just like that. The game is based around him. I always picture a "skill tree" like scheme and on the top of it is KL Spin. Its the anti-everything. NOT BROKEN but tuu damn powerful. Anti crossups and setups combos anyone? LOL
 

Phase 3

Feels Good Man
I do agree that on paper, Mileena seems to have a whole boatload of problems.

She needs to rely on specials that are extremely punishable, she has very slow normals, and her damage output isn't godlike. That said, I think she's not nearly as bad as the widely accepted analysis of her strengths and weaknesses would suggest.

Mileena has these great tools for players who are good at reading their opponent, making adjustments, and analyzing matches mid-fight. In fact, almost all of her best tools require a lot of insight. This, on paper, just makes it seem like Mileena suffers because when suggesting a strategy, how can you wholeheartedly endorse an unsafe approach, or an approach that's particularly risky? It's hard to even give advice with her, because Mileena is one of those characters that really needs to fight the player, sometimes moreso than she needs to fight the specific character. A lot of characters are far more consistent, and are much better suited for following a reliable, unflinching gameplan. Because of this, Mileena definitely isn't suited for everyone, and it's easy to point out her weaknesses.

The nice thing about Mileena is, she has a lot of great tools that can work provided the player has a grasp on his opponent. I've been playing Mileena since the demo, and I've had pretty good success with her. I play a lot of fantastic players (SwiftTomHanks, AC1964, Eazail, etc), and during my time attending tournaments and weeklies, I've come to the conclusion that perhaps Mileena isn't the best pick for tournaments; however, I find she can excel in extended sessions.

Mileena has a lot of tools to change her style and gameplan fluidly, and she definitely has to tools to exploit weakness. The only problem with this is, a lot of these tools can be unsafe, or they require, as previously stated, insight. In a tournament setting, you only have two or three matches to gather information and formulate a strategy. It's hard to just experiment with Mileena because a lot of her best tools are punishable, and Mileena doesn't really have the consistent, formulaic gameplan that many other characters can safely abide to. I feel she really needs to mold to her opponent. That said, Mileena, in my eyes, suffers when there isn't much time to adjust. On the flipside, I feel I typically come out on top in First to 10's or extended casuals because you're given so much time to analyze the player and use Mileena's natural ability to exploit weakness and comfortably attack in a variety of situations.

If anything is holding Mileena back in major tournaments, I feel it's this. When I typically play new players for the first time with Mileena, it can get messy. It has to be. Her best tools carry a huge risk, but once I make the adjustment, or once I've gathered information, I feel really confident in her ability as a character.

All of this isn't to say that other characters can't benefit from reading the opponent or thrive in the hands of an analytical player, I'm just saying it feels more required and, at times, it feels as though Mileena gains an even greater benefit from it.

Anyway, I don't feel things are quite as grim as it looks on paper, especially in the matchups outlined. She has her weaknesses, but they're just so much easier to point out and graph than her strengths.
 

Vulcan Hades

Champion
Well to be fair, following OP's mentality only the top 5-8 characters of this game are really tourney viable (aka don't need a backup character for the terrible matchups).

Mileena is still more viable than a shit load of characters in this game. :p

Good matchups analysis though. I can't wait to see your Mileena and Johnny Cage in action. :)
 

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
Very good analysis, REO is doing pretty well with Mileena gameplay, but, he is very realistic about Mileena chances in a tourney, and bring very cool arguments in this match-up analysis here.

Anyway, since I love Mileena and she is my main character in MK9, I wish him all good luck if he decides to keep up with Mileena there, against all those good players that will be there

War, REO, wish you the best in EVO !!
 

PimpUigi

Sex Kick
I was going to say this exact stuff about all of those characters apart from Shang Tsung and Jade (haven't played any yet).
I didn't want to get flamed more for being pessimistic since the Scorpion thread and all...just better to let the famous players tell it like it is, so I just left it at Smoke.

Great post REO.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
It is the only move in the game that can be considered a gtf off me move.

Every jump in, on reaction, zero start up frames, leads to huge damage, it can't get much better. It can interupt frame traps, that spin is awesome!