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Lost to a newbie (scrub) when you shouldn't! Is this part of what makes you a better fighter?

Typical scrub answer . Take that sweet D2 to the face !! Exactly Einstein . Thats how easy it is to lose in this game .
i bet you are a killer playing DIVE KICK LOOOOOOL
First you whine about FBs and KBs and than you go straight up rant on d2, stages and throws. Actually, d2 KB is awesome and to me it's an ingenious idea. The other KB need to be balanced, ill give you that, but you can't just go whine about EVERY SINGLE MECHANIC that mk11 has.
 

Kenshi-Keanu-Kool

D1 mashing is the tactic when skill fails !
i never whine about FB . Thats like the special . its all good . KB are stupid has hell . Takes out all the IQ of the game - The wake up system is great , the block system is good . The spam BS its pretty balanced , there are great thing in the game . But KB i feel like its a mechanic for beginners to have a chance to win .
 
I don't think anyone's posted this in this thread yet, but "Playing to Win" by David Sirlin is a fantastic read.

It really goes over the mindset to have when competing, and discusses in detail the mental hurdles we place upon ourselves, and cling to, that prevent us from improving and winning.

I recommend this e-book to anyone, as its application goes beyond just video games.
 
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i never whine about FB . Thats like the special . its all good . KB are stupid has hell . Takes out all the IQ of the game - The wake up system is great , the block system is good . The spam BS its pretty balanced , there are great thing in the game . But KB i feel like its a mechanic for beginners to have a chance to win .
You said that the game encourage scrubs and noobish plays. CBs are imbalanced, just because some characters can land them easily than others and they need a tune for sure. FBs are boring and given to the players freely.. but all of this is offtopic, i still believe that the better player, even if he looses to some mechanics abuse or CB or spammed FBs, should adapt easily and abuse the real cheap stuff on the opponent, let's say in a best of three scenario the "better player" lose, maybe he played with frustration in his mind, or maybe he's just another scrub.
 

Kenshi-Keanu-Kool

D1 mashing is the tactic when skill fails !
You said that the game encourage scrubs and noobish plays. CBs are imbalanced, just because some characters can land them easily than others and they need a tune for sure. FBs are boring and given to the players freely.. but all of this is offtopic, i still believe that the better player, even if he looses to some mechanics abuse or CB or spammed FBs, should adapt easily and abuse the real cheap stuff on the opponent, let's say in a best of three scenario the "better player" lose, maybe he played with frustration in his mind, or maybe he's just another scrub.
your counter dict yourself .
 

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
I find this discussion quite interesting so I' d like to put in my two cents.
I think that the question discussed here cannot be adressed by simply saying "if you lose against a scrub you are an scrub, git gud".
We have to take on account that, in the process of learning a FG there is a huge gap between knowing something, trying to apply it and doing it efficiently (and consistently). Someone that is in this process, call it intermediate player, isn't an scrub by any means, but can perfectly lose against a supposedly worse player due to the fact that many times it is easier to land a move than to defend ourselves against it. I'll explain myself:
As I see it, an scrub is someone that doesn't care about learning and improving. Some of them are merely casuals that plays a FG a few days and inmediately goes for a new videogame, whch is fine, but there are others that really want to win but doesn't care about adquiring a deep knowledge of the game, which is fine too. These players tend to simply search for something that works and they doesn't really care to go further and learn about things such as fundamentals, matchups, adaptation, etc. I want to make it clear that I don't have anything against them and I don't even like to use the term "scrub"; they are not playing the game wrongly, but they lack knowledge in many ways and, in the long run, they end up losing against anyone interesting in learning because they are never going to adquire it. However, in the meanwhile, they usually get a lot of wins.
This second type of these so called "scrubs", while easily beaten by high level players, are dangerous for an intermediate player, specially in short sets, as they tend to use few moves and strategies that, while beatable, are difficult to punish consistently, as it may require high dexterity, very good reflexes, etc. in order to do so. Many times it's way easier to win against another intermediate player than against an scrub that uses just one "cheap" tactic, even knowing how to punish it. And yes, at a high level play there's no such a thing as a 'cheap' move or tactic (if the game is balanced) but you know it is way different at an intermediate level, where most of us (mere humans) still struggle to react to some punishable stuff (it is our fault, of course, but it doesn´t neccessarily mean that we are worse than our opponent overall)
To summarise: yes, blaming your opponent for your loses does make you an scrub, but one can perfectly lose against a bad player without being an scrub or being bad at all, it's part of the process of learning the game. However, it can be fustrating that, after a good amount of practice, a simple sequence of movements can beat you regardless the fact that you know how to punish it.


Edit: By the way, I've found some of the posts here very helpful and full of good advise!!!.
 
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CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I find this discussion quite interesting so I' d like to put in my two cents.
I think that the question discussed here cannot be adressed by simply saying "if you lose against a scrub you are an scrub, git gud".
We have to take on account that, in the process of learning a FG there is a huge gap between knowing something, trying to apply it and doing it efficiently (and consistently). Someone that is in this process, call it intermediate player, isn't an scrub by any means, but can perfectly lose against a supposedly worse player due to the fact that many times it is easier to land a move than to defend ourselves against it. I'll explain myself:
As I see it, an scrub is someone that doesn't care about learning and improving. Some of them are merely casuals that plays a FG a few days and inmediately goes for a new videogame, whch is fine, but there are others that really want to win but doesn't care about adquiring a deep knowledge of the game, which is fine too. These players tend to simply search for something that works and they doesn't really care to go further and learn about things such as fundamentals, matchups, adaptation, etc. I want to make it clear that I don't have anything against them and I don't even like to use the term "scrub"; they are not playing the game wrongly, but they lack knowledge in many ways and, in the long run, they end up losing against anyone interesting in learning because they are never going to adquire it. However, in the meanwhile, they usually get a lot of wins.
This second type of these so called "scrubs", while easily beaten by high level players, are dangerous for an intermediate player, specially in short sets, as they tend to use few moves and strategies that, while beatable, are difficult to punish consistently, as it may require high dexterity, very good reflexes, etc. in order to do so. Many times it's way easier to win against another intermediate player than against an scrub that uses just one "cheap" tactic, even knowing how to punish it. And yes, at a high level play there's no such a thing as a 'cheap' move or tactic (if the game is balanced) but you know it is way different at an intermediate level, where most of us (mere humans) still struggle to react to some punishable stuff (it is our fault, of course, but it doesn´t neccessarily mean that we are worse than our opponent overall)
To summarise: yes, blaming your opponent for your loses does make you an scrub, but one can perfectly lose against a bad player without being an scrub or being bad at all, it's part of the process of learning the game. However, it can be fustrating that, after a good amount of practice, a simple sequence of movements can beat you regardless the fact that you know how to punish it.


Edit: By the way, I've found some of the posts here very helpful and full of good advise!!!.
I think the point isn’t about whether you lose. It can happen, even to the best and even in tournament. I think the point is about your attitude about losing.

When someone uses a tactic over and over, that person is trying to teach you something. So when, instead of of learning from it, you come to TYM and complain that you are losing to ‘scrub’ tactics, or that someone is using ‘scrub’ offense against you, it’s ultimately YOU who are the scrub who needs to level up. That person is doing what they need to do to win, and you are losing to it, even though you claim it’s predictable, and crying instead of leveling up.
 

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
I think the point isn’t about whether you lose. It can happen, even to the best and even in tournament. I think the point is about your attitude about losing.

When someone uses a tactic over and over, that person is trying to teach you something. So when, instead of of learning from it, you come to TYM and complain that you are losing to ‘scrub’ tactics, or that someone is using ‘scrub’ offense against you, it’s ultimately YOU who are the scrub who needs to level up. That person is doing what they need to do to win, and you are losing to it, even though you claim it’s predictable, and crying instead of leveling up.
Yeah, absolutely. I didn´t mean otherwise, but perhaps I explained myself poorly. In fact there is not such a thing as a scrub tactic, as everything usable is legit. Ultimately, it's your fault if your are not able to defend against it, so you need to practice more, that's all. My point is that losing doesn't neccesarily make you a worse player if you try to learn from it, but winning by itself without caring about learning does. Therefore, as your said, it is all about attitude, but this attitude can be present whether you lose or you win, and a player that cares about learning can lose against someone who does not.

To make it clear, I'm no trying to justify my personal loses (I'm aware of my million flaws as a player), only noting something that I think could happen to many people at an intermediate level.

PD: The only thing I don't fully agree with is the sentece "When someone uses a tactic over and over, that person is trying to teach you something". Sometimes, it happens that a better player tries to teach you something this way, but you know that's not always the case.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
PD: The only thing I don't fully agree with is the sentece "When someone uses a tactic over and over, that person is trying to teach you something". Sometimes, it happens that a better player tries to teach you something this way, but you know that's not always the case.
This.

I had this Baraka player get salty as hell because I was 'spamming combos', so instead of trying to get in or trying to whiff punish me, he just spammed his blade sparks. Maybe you can argue he was trying to teach me patience, but if anything he was hindering his own progress or just didn't care at all and wanted a W.
 
Honestly, a lot of otherwise good players don’t know how to counter weird stuff, even if that weird stuff is simple. It’s an unexpected play style and throws them off, even if they’re just doing the same thing over and over again.

For instance, sometimes I like to relax at the end of a long day by getting drunk and bashing people over the head with Shao Kahn’s hammer. I literally just jump in and uppercut the entire match while yelling BAM!!! (Seriously, try it, it’s a great stress reliever). Most often, I die quickly, but it’s not uncommon to come up against someone with a great record who just is unable to deal with it. It’s a weird thing to come up against and that just throws them off. I need to mercy them and stand there do that I don’t unintentionally get a win (because that would be a bit dickish to get one that way).

One of the things against fighting other people is that you need to be able to deal with unexpected actions. If you get stuck in a particular mindset about how a fight is going to go, you’re less able to adapt when it goes a different way.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
This.

I had this Baraka player get salty as hell because I was 'spamming combos', so instead of trying to get in or trying to whiff punish me, he just spammed his blade sparks. Maybe you can argue he was trying to teach me patience, but if anything he was hindering his own progress or just didn't care at all and wanted a W.
I don’t mean this in the literal sense. But what I’m saying is, when someone is doing the same thing over and other, that person is forcing a lesson on you, and it’s up to you to either learn that lesson or not.

I have no sympathy for anyone who refuses to learn the lesson and just cries instead.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
I don’t mean this in the literal sense. But what I’m saying is, when someone is doing the same thing over and other, that person is forcing a lesson on you, and it’s up to you to either learn that lesson or not.

I have no sympathy for anyone who refuses to learn the lesson and just cries instead.
I absolutely agree. It's also our responsibility to adapt to the crap they're doing and find a way to blow them up for it. I just agreed with CriticalDrop that intention is different from person to person, and their end goal isn't to make us learn, that's not their responsibility, their end goal is to win.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I absolutely agree. It's also our responsibility to adapt to the crap they're doing and find a way to blow them up for it. I just agreed with CriticalDrop that intention is different from person to person, and their end goal isn't to make us learn, that's not their responsibility, their end goal is to win.
It might not be the goal, but it’s definitely the effect, either way. That person is helping you learn something whether they like it or not :)