Question Looking At Certain Character's Defensive Backdashes

[Marinjuana]

Tremor's backdash doesn't have the same evasive properties as Alien's. It still gets hit by highs. It just visually looks like it low profiles.

It can actually duck certain high projectiles at a sweet spot during his roll. It's noticeable if you do it against Tremor's own bf2. It's not in any way a viable strategy of avoidance though.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Didn't MK9 have broke zoning? Kenshi, Kabal, Freddy, etc.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Didn't MK9 have broke zoning? Kenshi, Kabal, Freddy, etc.

MK9 didn't had enough defensive moves either aside from Wakeup attack with invincibility, and frame durability armor moves. backdashes were way shorter, but attacking didn't cover half-screen either. Unblocking didn't cost a frame, so even without reversals you could punish -13 moves with a 13f startup command normal. The blockstun of some moves where hideous, but it wasn't a thing felt across the whole cast.

Training mode was @$$

 

[Ze Dingo]

Liu literally had pseudo infinites off a full screen armoured move.

Behave.

Your entire character's variation can be summed up with "DAT KNEE"

 

[thlityoursloat]

MK9 didn't had enough defensive moves either aside from Wakeup attack with invincibility, and frame durability armor moves. backdashes were way shorter, but attacking didn't cover half-screen either. Unblocking didn't cost a frame, so even without reversals you could punish -13 moves with a 13f startup command normal. The blockstun of some moves where hideous, but it wasn't a thing felt across the whole cast.

Training mode was @$$

Yeah, training mode is vomit tier.
It doesn't look like it doesn't take a frame to unblock, for me unblocking is unresponsive as hell. I'd unblock and it would take what feels like 5 frames until I can press a button. In MKX, unblocking and pressing a button feels more responsive.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Yeah, training mode is vomit tier.
It doesn't look like it doesn't take a frame to unblock, for me unblocking is unresponsive as hell. I'd unblock and it would take what feels like 5 frames until I can press a button. In MKX, unblocking and pressing a button feels more responsive.

Not at all, in MK9 you could release block the next frame after you block something, proof of that, you could punish minus moves with matching startup normals, in this MK, you can't punish a -11 move with a 11f startup normal, you have to use a reversal special.

Kotal F2 is -11, try to punish with KL F2 which is 11f startup, no matter how earlier you release the block, you can't punish that with said move.

What happened in MK9 is that some cancels had ridiculous blockstuns and there was a stance lock, if you block something standing, you will remain standing until every blockstring ends, even if you could block oh low mixups, the stance jail was a key part of the game.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Kudos to putting this together, but its kinda inaccurate.

You're right that the demo vid wasn't the most scientific, but did you read my post above with Goro and Scorp? I actually measured the invincibility frames there, so it's a way cleaner proof of concept.

If you or anyone else has a refutation to that video, I'd love to hear it--I just want to discover the truth at the end of the day but I think the evidence is really beyond question in that video.

short distance backdashes like Kenshi, Mileena, Goro and so forth

Mileena's backdash has the 8th longest distance of the roster at over 15% above average.

 

[the.hamburglar]

Liu literally had pseudo infinites off a full screen armoured move.

Behave.

Explain.

 

[Wigy]

Your entire character's variation can be summed up with "DAT KNEE"

You can do that with like every character

 

[Wigy]

Explain.

Im not going to the effort. Do some research.

Basically takeda before the patch, if he was touched by df liu was fucked, Along with any character who didnt have past armour and a 7f poke

 

[Ze Dingo]

You can do that with like every character

It's not as scary.

"DAT punchwalk" "DAT ICE CLONE (that doesn't function properly)"

See? Told you

 

[the.hamburglar]

Im not going to the effort. Do some research.

Basically takeda before the patch, if he was touched by df liu was fucked, Along with any character who didnt have past armour and a 7f poke

Ohh that, yeah but now every character has a 6-9 frame poke so i dont think it applies anymore. He doesnt build a bar back so no readon to end in meterburn dragon kick that guaranteed plus two, now neutral. I think it would be fair to give him his plus two back. This is off the top of my head and i have dont no research at all but when Jc ends in ex forceball, is he not plus and builds all his meter back so theyre put in the same position? Just a simple question lol

 

[thlityoursloat]

Ohh that, yeah but now every character has a 6-9 frame poke so i dont think it applies anymore. He doesnt build a bar back so no readon to end in meterburn dragon kick that guaranteed plus two, now neutral. I think it would be fair to give him his plus two back. This is off the top of my head and i have dont no research at all but when Jc ends in ex forceball, is he not plus and builds all his meter back so theyre put in the same position? Just a simple question lol

No, because EX forceballs doesn't hit 50 times, has more pushback and he JC doesn't recover enough stamina in time.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I don't think you remember how annoying rushing down zod was...

I do and i'll take that any day over being rushed down by every character and having to hold 50/50 after 50/50. At least in Injustice there were a variety of ways you could lose lol.

 

[Wigy]

Ohh that, yeah but now every character has a 6-9 frame poke so i dont think it applies anymore. He doesnt build a bar back so no readon to end in meterburn dragon kick that guaranteed plus two, now neutral. I think it would be fair to give him his plus two back. This is off the top of my head and i have dont no research at all but when Jc ends in ex forceball, is he not plus and builds all his meter back so theyre put in the same position? Just a simple question lol

I really don't like it when people blindly make comparisons that dont take things into account.

Bf2 mb leaves you at point blank range ex forceball has pushback, jc's only followup is f3, which can be backdashed and armoured and poked if u have a 7 f move. B12 used to literally be an answer to everything, and so what you were forced to sit and block then you'd get put back into f213 fbc shit.

The risk reward was utterly stupid. Worst outcome for liu was being like -2 after b12 fbc. If he did ex fbc he was +4 also, so you could guarantee some silly chip.

There is good tools and then there is stupid and braindead.

 

[villainous monk]

I think on a purely defense stand point each characters backdash should have a unique tweak to it like alien and triborg.

Since imo mkxl is more of and offensive game were defense seems to be only a second thought from the players turn.

Where as on defense your forced to read & punish of wiffs and whatever else you need to do to counter your opponents attack into your own offense. I guess you call that my turn.

But Where's the reward for a purely defensive move? I'm not talking for individual characters but for all btw.

Back dashes costing you meter with 30% or 35% recovery and not a really good advantageous postion on the screen overall for every character is not the way to go. I just wish that the game would be a bit more balanced when it comes to an example like this. Or maybe I'm too set in my ways from past fgs.

Please correct me if I'm wrong and I'm just saying this in my opinion.

 

[the.hamburglar]

No, because EX forceballs doesn't hit 50 times, has more pushback and he JC doesn't recover enough stamina in time.

Ohhh alright, thanks for the info. If he does a throw he gets all his stamina

I really don't like it when people blindly make comparisons that dont take things into account.

Bf2 mb leaves you at point blank range ex forceball has pushback, jc's only followup is f3, which can be backdashed and armoured and poked if u have a 7 f move. B12 used to literally be an answer to everything, and so what you were forced to sit and block then you'd get put back into f213 fbc shit.

The risk reward was utterly stupid. Worst outcome for liu was being like -2 after b12 fbc. If he did ex fbc he was +4 also, so you could guarantee some silly chip.

There is good tools and then there is stupid and braindead.

i literally said i have no research and that it was just a question lol but again, every character has a good poke that can beat it so theres that. Also the chip damage thing being nerfed and all affected him pretty badly. Also is the pushback crazy bad in the corner? Just another question so dont trip out. Back1,2 cancel is not that great besides a hard read on an armor break. on block, If you do a regular cancel then you can jump out, or do whatever you wanna do like start your pressure.

 

[Wigy]

Ohhh alright, thanks for the info. If he does a throw he gets all his stamina

i literally said i have no research and that it was just a question lol but again, every character has a good poke that can beat it so theres that. Also the chip damage thing being nerfed and all affected him pretty badly. Also is the pushback crazy bad in the corner? Just another question so dont trip out. Back1,2 cancel is not that great besides a hard read on an armor break. on block, If you do a regular cancel then you can jump out, or do whatever you wanna do like start your pressure.

Thats true but the meta before was if you block then f213 came out and you were back in the blockstring.

You only get f3 from ex forceballs anywhere, in the corner obviously backdash isnt viable.

Sorry for jumping the gun, people on here always make real stupid comparisons between liu and jc