Match-up Discussion Lolish Zatanna MU Chart

[Espio]

To deal with HG's trait, she can either hit her out of the ring at full screen, or if she's not full screen then she can do an upward trait shot. But essentially speaking she's going to be hit out of the air in some way shape or form; even if it's through a trade she's still eating damage. Also, if she's too far to get hit by the ring, then she's also too far to do anything to Zatanna. Also, if HG just wing evades through Zatanna's zoning, then all she's doing is pushing Iherself back, which is what Zatanna wants. Also, Zatanna is a very good anti-zoner, no one is zoning her lol. If Martian Manhunter, Zod, or Sinestro (the best zoners in the game) can't zone her, then how can Hawkgirl do so? Also, the reason why I said punish mace charge with a J3 was because that's HG's only reliable way of getting in, but if she goes for that then she's eating a J3.

So what you're basically admitting is that the only way she can even hit Hawkgirl in trait with her zoning is if she's full screen OR you have your situational trait shot (which let's be honest, it doesn't cover the multiple locations Hawkgirl can be in while in flight while simultaneously staying within that sweet spot range.

This all sounds incredibly different from "Trait is off limits in the match up for Hawkgirl" because that is purely misinformation.

And again, that is incorrect. Trait rings will miss me at the range where my mace tosses, MB mace tosses and what not will hit her.

As for wing evade, this is also totally false. Wing evade 3 is the most commonly used version of wing evade, which moves her forward and has good whiff recovery, I've used wing evade invincibility frames to punish interactables, the range is pretty legit on 3. I mean yeah, if Hawkgirl doesn't use wing evade correctly then she'll just be pushing herself back, but we're talking about people who are playing the match up correctly.

Nobody is arguing the match up is played with Hawkgirl zoning her out only all day, but it is easier for Hawkgirl to zone her than the reverse for Zatanna, which is less important to Hawkgirl's game in general (especially since Hawkgirl beats her pretty good in footsies with two normals lol).

You think mace charge is her only mobility tool in? Wing evade 3, MB Ground Mace toss (this is over plus 13 so she gets in at advantage), air MB mace toss, flight, solid forward walk speed etc.

It's fine if you don't agree that she loses, but your reasons for why she doesn't lose is based on misinformation more or less. I was only commenting because I was tagged to be honest.

I will recuse myself now.