cR_whiteboi
Jobbers are mouthpieces for gods.
I agree with the DD Number.
It's a 5-5. She can zone him out very well and punish his B113 with 112. Trait and fireball do a good number to keep him at bay. Though when he does get in he can go to town on her, but since Batman has reactable mixups this isn't too much of an issue. Grapple hook is essentially his only way of catching backward teleports, but it's super risky as I can easily teleport behind you and full combo you.
I know that was a typo lol. I don't think it's that bad, just because if he does catch her he can do decent work on her with his damaging combos. But yeah it's pretty bad haha. And yes, divekick is the primary reason BA beats her; it shuts down her zoning and trait so she's forced to fight up close when she doesn't want to. Though she can do J3 to punish his divekick if she suspects he's going to throw a ring at her, but that's about it.
Black Zatanna is hotter brah.
Look above for when I discussed Superman DD and DS
Because Bane has a very hard time getting in while DD does not. DD can MB Venom all day and destroy her, but Bane has to sit there and eat rings and if he does a raging charge, she can teleport behind and full combo punish with MB Puppet Master. He also doesn't really have an answer for her trait and she can get out of his oki easily due to her teleport. He also can't really stop her from running away. Bane's only hope is to corner her, but since Zatanna's zoning and runaway game is so good in this MU that chance will seldom come.
It's not that bad haha. See above for why I said it's a 7-3 and not an 8-2
Hmm, I've played you a good amount of times so I could possibly see it, but I think she still goes even with him since she can still zone pretty well and if she thinks you'll shotgun to interrupt her runaway, I believe she can teleport behind you and punish. Also I believe trait and MB Fireball do good work at keeping him out. I also think this is one of those MU's where whichever character can get their momentum going is going to win; if he gets in he wins, if she can zone then she wins
She doesn't destroy him with the zoning. If anything they're about even
Oops. I forgot to clarify. I do thinks its 5-5 but she can zone him and he out footsies her
Having answers does not mean that it's not a losing match up (more on that below).
This is completely untrue, you kind of ignored the points I made in my previous post, I'll restate them for clarity's sake. The only place where her zoning with rings will hit Hawkgirl while in flight is full screen distance, anywhere else they will not. Hawkgirl's sweet spot range to avoid her zoning is much bigger than Zatanna's window of control to zone her while Hawkgirl is in trait.
None of this is match up specific or relevant for why Zatanna wins or goes 5-5 because everyone can whiff punish a mace charge with jump normals. When it comes to match ups being even or in your character's favor there has to be something special or unique your character does to either equally check said character or limit them in a notable way . One of your points is inaccurate and the other is a universal option everyone can do.
I agree on this and to add on:
Really? I've always thought escrima was the better option in this mu. NW needs to be more mobile against zatanna.
Yeah, you get the mobility, but staff on hit is enough to stuff her ring if she was to throw one. And it's plus on block, so it may stuff it, of it'll trade and you'll recover faster. It's really useful when you have a health lead.
My shite doomsday barely loses to you so shouldn't that be an indictment on the matchup. Also the top doomsdays body the top Zatanna so that should say something. If there is a matchup to ask Florida about, it's this one (along with HQ and GL). It's super telling when Deg goes Harley instead of Zatanna in this mu.
No it doesn't, we barely play that MU and we haven't played in a while.
I'm not saying they can't be wrong ... I'm just saying I would value the opinions of the top DD's and top Zatanna in this particular matchup than I would of anyone else.
I do not think it' a 5-5 because:
Zatanna shouldn't use trait in this MU nor should she be zoning much. Though DS can punish trance from full screen, if you're not really trying to zone (which you shouldn't be), then that does not really matter because it's not going to happen. Also, her d2 is actually quite good for antiairing him; I've found that even when I'm fighting a DS that knows how to properly space his jump attacks, it'll just trade. But if a trade happens DS is not getting a combo off of that J3 or J2. Also, oki is one of the best things about DS, but Zatanna can get out of it fairly easily; the DS has to know that she's going to teleport. And if he guesses wrong she can whiff punish and get a full combo in.
To deal with HG's trait, she can either hit her out of the ring at full screen, or if she's not full screen then she can do an upward trait shot. But essentially speaking she's going to be hit out of the air in some way shape or form; even if it's through a trade she's still eating damage. Also, if she's too far to get hit by the ring, then she's also too far to do anything to Zatanna. Also, if HG just wing evades through Zatanna's zoning, then all she's doing is pushing Iherself back, which is what Zatanna wants. Also, Zatanna is a very good anti-zoner, no one is zoning her lol. If Martian Manhunter, Zod, or Sinestro (the best zoners in the game) can't zone her, then how can Hawkgirl do so?
Also, the reason why I said punish mace charge with a J3 was because that's HG's only reliable way of getting in, but if she goes for that then she's eating a J3.
Grundy can mb swamp hands ring on reaction. The risk reward is just too far in Grundy's favour to think that zoning is a proper option. You might get a ring off or two but it doesn't mean anything when you get 4% if he has health trait. And everyone does more damage then Zatanna, who normally gets about 30% normally for a vortex, so it does greatly impact the damage potential of her vortex, especially when he makes the same amount back in one hit that Zatanna does for guessing right twice. Grundy doesn't give a shit about her zoning if he has meter, and walking corpse cancels are very hard to deal with in trait.I do not think it' a 5-5 because:
- Zatanna can punish MB Teleport with 112
- She wins up close
- Far better mix ups/vortex options
- Outdamages and outfootsies him
- She's much, much safer than him
Zatanna is essentially a much better version of Scorpion.
Zatanna shouldn't use trait in this MU nor should she be zoning much. Though DS can punish trance from full screen, if you're not really trying to zone (which you shouldn't be), then that does not really matter because it's not going to happen. Also, her d2 is actually quite good for antiairing him; I've found that even when I'm fighting a DS that knows how to properly space his jump attacks, it'll just trade. But if a trade happens DS is not getting a combo off of that J3 or J2. Also, oki is one of the best things about DS, but Zatanna can get out of it fairly easily; the DS has to know that she's going to teleport. And if he guesses wrong she can whiff punish and get a full combo in.
As for Grundy, everyone has to deal with his cray cray damage, so that's not really Zatanna specific. Also, you can zone him if he has a bar; it's really a guessing game for both characters. If she thinks he's going to ex swamp hands, then simply block. But if he keeps doing that eventually he will run out of meter and can't do it anymore, so it's back to full screen zoning. I think it's 6-4 when Grundy doesn't have meter and 5-5 when he does, but since he's gonna be doing ex swamp hands a lot to try and stop your zoning, he's going to run out of meter and then it'll be 6-4 again.
As for DD, FWIW Deg too thinks it's 4-6, but like I said DD will pretty much always have meter so he will get in. Trait is very good yes, but when are you going to pull that out when he's always in your face?
To deal with HG's trait, she can either hit her out of the ring at full screen, or if she's not full screen then she can do an upward trait shot. But essentially speaking she's going to be hit out of the air in some way shape or form; even if it's through a trade she's still eating damage. Also, if she's too far to get hit by the ring, then she's also too far to do anything to Zatanna. Also, if HG just wing evades through Zatanna's zoning, then all she's doing is pushing Iherself back, which is what Zatanna wants. Also, Zatanna is a very good anti-zoner, no one is zoning her lol. If Martian Manhunter, Zod, or Sinestro (the best zoners in the game) can't zone her, then how can Hawkgirl do so?
