General/Other - Liu Kang Liu Kang Fix Thread o_o

[RM AtK!]

hahaha YES another one of these my friends! jk

But on a real note i think Liu needs his F21 / b34 Neutral again.. Is that an unreasonable thing? I'm curious on a serious note what the community thinks about this. Would you find this as an okay rebuff?

If not, what would you recommend? I dont wana hear overhead starters or some OD dumb buff. i just am curious about reasonable small changes. Maybe even a Faster d1 d4?

 

[Triplswing]

Why does he need fixing?

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

he needs a 7 or at most 8 frame d1. 9 frame pokes suk

 

[Chris Friday]

He just needs a decent anti air, his pokes are fine.

 

[KH_Seraph]

He just needs a decent anti air, his pokes are fine.

Do you not think his standing 1 or U4 are not useful anti-airs (Legitimate question... I use standing 1 as an anti air all the time and have had success. Works great for conversions).

Liu needs to be able to beat pressure out with an equally fast or faster poke if he is going to be a rushdown character... His standing 2 in MK9 was god tier, even though it was a high.

 

[STRYKIE]

Fix his 1,1 string to properly hit S.Mid and Mid respectively on all hitboxes. Not many people know this but 112 FBRC and F44 FBRC on block into standing 1 are in fact true blockstrings but because of the hitbox issue, it's not worth putting execution into.

Give F1 a generic jab hitstun animation so that the the 2 in F12 doesn't whiff from max range.

F44 also has this issue between it's 2nd and 3rd hits at some ranges but I don't know what the specific cause is.

DB2 (not exactly sure of the actual move name, Dragon's Roar?) whiffs on hit against some female characters if linked from F44 from parallel stances. That specifically isn't a big deal but you can't help but wonder where else it might be whiffing.

In summary, just give him the Jacqui treatment and stop his stuff from selectively whiffing. If at least the above is addressed I think a lot of people will see how scary his pressure can be anyway.

Dualist might be the only variation I actually approve of legitimate buffs for. But it's a strategist's variation as it is so it's kinda difficult to suggest reasonable, obligatory buffs for. I'm not gonna be the guy.

he needs a 7 or at most 8 frame d1. 9 frame pokes suk

Tell that to Erron Black. Characters can still suffice without 6/7 frame pokes fine in this game, this isn't MK9 anymore.

 

[Chris Friday]

Do you not think his standing 1 or U4 are not useful anti-airs (Legitimate question... I use standing 1 as an anti air all the time and have had success. Works great for conversions).

Liu needs to be able to beat pressure out with an equally fast or faster poke if he is going to be a rushdown character... His standing 2 in MK9 was god tier, even though it was a high.

U4 feels unreliable in most situations and stand 1 I've had mix results with. Stand 1 works well on certain characters, but characters with fantastic jump ins seem beat out stand 1 100% of the time

Ive played Liu in mk9 and he was pretty good without any decent low pokes and I still feel the same about him in mkx

I feel that liu's pokes are not up to par with other characters because of his whiff punishes. B2 and F3 are great punishes to keep your opponent in check from throwing out too many low pokes.

As for dealing with rush down characters, I feel that defense and patience is the only counter for dealing with pressure. His pokes are below average in my opinion except for his amazing d3 and I think he can get by with his terrible pokes just like he did in mk9.

To be honest the only buff I want is an ex low fireball, I don't understand why he doesn't have one.

 

[jozuvloke]

I'd say nothing! Then again I'd say fuck liu kang too! Lol

 

[WITNESS]

 

[Pterodactyl]

Fix his 1,1 string to properly hit S.Mid and Mid respectively on all hitboxes. Not many people know this but 112 FBRC and F44 FBRC on block into standing 1 are in fact true blockstrings but because of the hitbox issue, it's not worth putting execution into.

Give F1 a generic jab hitstun animation so that the the 2 in F12 doesn't whiff from max range.

F44 also has this issue between it's 2nd and 3rd hits at some ranges but I don't know what the specific cause is.

DB2 (not exactly sure of the actual move name, Dragon's Roar?) whiffs on hit against some female characters if linked from F44 from parallel stances. That specifically isn't a big deal but you can't help but wonder where else it might be whiffing.

In summary, just give him the Jacqui treatment and stop his stuff from selectively whiffing. If at least the above is addressed I think a lot of people will see how scary his pressure can be anyway.

Dualist might be the only variation I actually approve of legitimate buffs for. But it's a strategist's variation as it is so it's kinda difficult to suggest reasonable, obligatory buffs for. I'm not gonna be the guy.


Tell that to Erron Black. Characters can still suffice without 6/7 frame pokes fine in this game, this isn't MK9 anymore.

This exactly.

Liu at base needs no more buffs, only fixes, believe it or not it's okay for characters to have flaws, shocking I know.


Dualist, however, needs a little work, though it seems like it'd be easy to accidentally make broken if they don't handle it right.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

They need to fix his Dark Fireballs running into walls on specific stages. For example, on the left side of the Mayan/Jungle Stage, if Liu Kang uses a regular or ex dark fireball and attempts to cancel it; The fireball runs into the wall and disappears before you are able to stop/leave it on the screen. It needs to at the very least avoid collision with walls in the corner of stages.

I'm also not sure if this is a bug or intentional, but Liu Kang's Dark Fireballs in Dualist also collide with Sub-Zero's Ice-Clone. It seems to me that they should pass through the clone and hit it upon activation.

 

[Chris Friday]

This exactly.

Liu at base needs no more buffs, only fixes, believe it or not it's okay for characters to have flaws, shocking I know.

What buffs did Liu get?

 

[WITNESS]

What buffs did Liu get?

He hasn't been touch

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

@STRYKIE no point in poking unless u think there going to do a high string . his fastest poke is as fast as his fastest mid. should have an 8 frame d1 . i dno wat erron blacks fastest poke is but no one shud have a 9 frame poke as fastest

 

[RM AtK!]

honestly i thought liu was fine before last patch. He needs some kinda neutral string to keep pressure in his other variations as well without the use of FbRc, or he needs a 8 frame poke to check ppl after his bf2 ex otherwise there's really no point to it. at the moment he's negative on everything so it only makes sense to have atleast a faster poke / 1-2 neutral strings to stagger.

he really doesnt need buffs at all i thought he was well balanced before they took away those neutral strings. i don't want anything unreasonable imo, i just thought those were kinda crucial to him across all variations but just my opinion.

 

[Pterodactyl]

What buffs did Liu get?

Sorry, should have said "no buffs", don't know why I put "more" there.

 

[RM AtK!]

Sorry, should have said "no buffs", don't know why I put "more" there.

lol noones asking really for much of a buff.. nothing unreasonable with what we are asking for

 

[STRYKIE]

This exactly.

Liu at base needs no more buffs, only fixes, believe it or not it's okay for characters to have flaws, shocking I know.


Dualist, however, needs a little work, though it seems like it'd be easy to accidentally make broken if they don't handle it right.

Exactly, that's why I don't really know what to say about Dualist lol.

@STRYKIE no point in poking unless u think there going to do a high string . his fastest poke is as fast as his fastest mid. should have an 8 frame d1 . i dno wat erron blacks fastest poke is but no one shud have a 9 frame poke as fastest

Well that's the thing, how many single digit mids are there in the the game that aren't punishable on block? Sometimes you just have to slow things down and scout accordingly.

honestly i thought liu was fine before last patch. He needs some kinda neutral string to keep pressure in his other variations as well without the use of FbRc, or he needs a 8 frame poke to check ppl after his bf2 ex otherwise there's really no point to it. at the moment he's negative on everything so it only makes sense to have atleast a faster poke / 1-2 neutral strings to stagger.

he really doesnt need buffs at all i thought he was well balanced before they took away those neutral strings. i don't want anything unreasonable imo, i just thought those were kinda crucial to him across all variations but just my opinion.

You can make some mid strings bare minimum neutral on block with metamorphosis changes in Dualist, at least in the respect that they aren't stamina/run cancel dependent.

Not entirely sure about Flame Fist. But he does have good defensive options there anyway.

Alas, some variations being better at some things than others is... kinda what variations are for, lol.

 

[RM AtK!]

Exactly, that's why I don't really know what to say about Dualist lol.



Well that's the thing, how many single digit mids are there in the the game that aren't punishable on block? Sometimes you just have to slow things down and scout accordingly.




You can make some mid strings bare minimum neutral on block with metamorphosis changes in Dualist, at least in the respect that they aren't stamina/run cancel dependent.

Not entirely sure about Flame Fist. But he does have good defensive options there anyway.

Alas, some variations being better at some things than others is... kinda what variations are for, lol.

strykie i appreciate your opinion my man i feel you on that, but what my suggestion was is far from unreasonable. there's vortex characters and characters that need staggers. you have to have some kinda compensation with his mechanics to make the pressure system work. when you have no vortex you should have a stagger or two to mind game and open ppl up.

 

[STRYKIE]

strykie i appreciate your opinion my man i feel you on that, but what my suggestion was is far from unreasonable. there's vortex characters and characters that need staggers. you have to have some kinda compensation with his mechanics to make the pressure system work. when you have no vortex you should have a stagger or two to mind game and open ppl up.

Not saying it was unreasonable, but I don't think neutral on block strings are absolutely necessary to apply stagger. Nobody thought they were home free if they blocked an F33 from Cage in MK9 which was -4 I think? Let's just see how the fixed hitboxes come into play first, assuming we get them.

 

[RM AtK!]

Not saying it was unreasonable, but I don't think neutral on block strings are absolutely necessary to apply stagger. Nobody thought they were home free if they blocked an F33 from Cage in MK9 which was -4 I think? Let's just see how the fixed hitboxes come into play first, assuming we get them.

if i blocked a f33 from cage he got punished if he followed up soo iono bout that

 

[arde5643]

For general fixes, I think fixing db2 whiffing on small profile characters and improving hitbox of d2 to be more vertical will go a long way.

In terms of the other variations, Dragon's Fire is fine where it is but only needs general fixes.

Flame Fist can get few buffs like EX Flame Fist with very small recovery frames so that Liu Kang can utilize it in block strings for pressure, making Windmill Punch always mid and hitting crouching opponents, as well as making EX Windmill punch safe (increase pushback or less minus on block) to improve pressure and chip damage kills.

Dualist needs all the help it can get though, what with all the bugs and very weak light stance moves. Not sure what can be done to help light stance though, the movelist by itself is so weak.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

@STRYKIE just saying he dont need a 8 frame d1 or 7 frame and he just has to scout, lol he should still have a faster poke and think majority agree same as takeda not much asking for 1 or 2 frames on his d1. and cage in mk9 f33 . if he made a move after that which 99% of cages did then theyd just get launched into a combo on that game lol.

 

[RM_Gamer]

Yup he was fine the way he used to be. Right now he has no true pressure, just a 9 hit blockstring ending in -2. I always thought they should have just made his low fb slower, and buff flame fist to make that variation viable

 

[Wigy]

his dualist variation might need tweaking, seems to be majorly lacking, could be that nobody is representing it properly yet. But with kotal and jasons healing in this game the light variation is entirely pointless and underwhelming