Lokheit
Noob
Disclaimer: I know I'm doing this too soon and I should at least wait for the stream but... #hype
As a Cryo loyalist, the news of the variation receiving a command grab took me by surprise (I thought only his neutral game would be adressed, which I still hope happens as with or without command grabs he needs it badly), specially since I've never practiced with a command grab character, at least not too much (a bit of Erron and that's mostly it).
We still need to know how it will work, it's very probably the Cold Blooded animation (renamed to Polar Puncture apparently... probably F421+3 will be the universal version of the move now with F42 still being able to cancel into the new command grab), but we don't know if you will be able to special cancel the command into hammer (which means pre-patch Cold Blooded), or maybe it will need a post execution meterburn for the cancel (many of the new gifs show later meter burns to continue with combos) or if you won't be able to cancel it but now it would be plus instead of neutral on hit (I really hope it's not the vanilla 0 version which killed momentum a lot), etc...
Basically no matter what happens EVERY SINGLE combo is going to change, which means lots of extra fun in the lab optimizing and refining them (even if it can be cancelled into hammer, for example specially in the corner all of the old F421+3 would now be B12Command).
But the most important part is optimizing the fact that now he has a command grab and the ability to tick throw (I've always sucked at defending against tick throws but I guess I will get plenty of time to make my mind to the whole thing by practicing it on offense now).
Some time ago I created a thread with a lot of Sub-Zero advanced moveset data. This included which strings would connect on hit and jail on block into every special move: https://testyourmight.com/threads/sub-zero-exhaustive-move-data.58034/
Tick throws condition (if I understand it correctly) is that the move doesn't jail on block (so there is always a way to escape them) or even on hit.
The old (current) Cold Blooded has 13 frames start up. I don't know if it will change (it's the same start up that for example Erron Black's command throw has), but if it stays in that range, checking the list we can get a list of possible tick throws by selecting the strings that won't jail into EX Burst (15 frames).
Note that some of this strings could still jail on a 13 frames move (the whole thing was done by trying each one so I only know if they connect into the available moves, I will rework the whole thing after the patch and probably change the format and make it a PDF so it's easier to read) so maybe not all of them work, but at least this gives us a reduced list of strings that are candidates for tick throws (note that overal frame data could change too):
- 1
- 123
- F12
- D1
- 2
- B3
- F33
- D3
- D4
Some interesting ones are 1 and F12 as both are neutral on block (so if you end up being able to tick throw from them, you could use them as neutral baits too.with F12 being much easier to confirm than 1 where even 11 has to be executed fast). 123 and F33 will see a lot of use too IMO if they can tick throw.
Again this is all theorycrafting and many of them could end up not tick throwing, but at least it's a preliminary list of what could happen.
Cryo's whole gameplan is about to change, his meterless damage is probably going to take a hit (depending on if the grab can be canceled into hammer without spending meter) and we still don't know if he's getting other changes (please sword starting string, please please please). But so far I'm hyped about all the time I'll spend trying to find every new possibility about this character again. It's like getting to open your favorite toy a second time lol.
PS:
And something that no one seems to be talking about... if they're taking this much effort into reworking the whole thing for multiple characters... you can be sure there are going to be plenty of secret brutalities. Cryo's brutality always looked like an incompleted one (at least it doesn't feel too brutal) so maybe as they're working with the move they added layers to it... or we could be getting a hammer brutal!
As a Cryo loyalist, the news of the variation receiving a command grab took me by surprise (I thought only his neutral game would be adressed, which I still hope happens as with or without command grabs he needs it badly), specially since I've never practiced with a command grab character, at least not too much (a bit of Erron and that's mostly it).
We still need to know how it will work, it's very probably the Cold Blooded animation (renamed to Polar Puncture apparently... probably F421+3 will be the universal version of the move now with F42 still being able to cancel into the new command grab), but we don't know if you will be able to special cancel the command into hammer (which means pre-patch Cold Blooded), or maybe it will need a post execution meterburn for the cancel (many of the new gifs show later meter burns to continue with combos) or if you won't be able to cancel it but now it would be plus instead of neutral on hit (I really hope it's not the vanilla 0 version which killed momentum a lot), etc...
Basically no matter what happens EVERY SINGLE combo is going to change, which means lots of extra fun in the lab optimizing and refining them (even if it can be cancelled into hammer, for example specially in the corner all of the old F421+3 would now be B12Command).
But the most important part is optimizing the fact that now he has a command grab and the ability to tick throw (I've always sucked at defending against tick throws but I guess I will get plenty of time to make my mind to the whole thing by practicing it on offense now).
Some time ago I created a thread with a lot of Sub-Zero advanced moveset data. This included which strings would connect on hit and jail on block into every special move: https://testyourmight.com/threads/sub-zero-exhaustive-move-data.58034/
Tick throws condition (if I understand it correctly) is that the move doesn't jail on block (so there is always a way to escape them) or even on hit.
The old (current) Cold Blooded has 13 frames start up. I don't know if it will change (it's the same start up that for example Erron Black's command throw has), but if it stays in that range, checking the list we can get a list of possible tick throws by selecting the strings that won't jail into EX Burst (15 frames).
Note that some of this strings could still jail on a 13 frames move (the whole thing was done by trying each one so I only know if they connect into the available moves, I will rework the whole thing after the patch and probably change the format and make it a PDF so it's easier to read) so maybe not all of them work, but at least this gives us a reduced list of strings that are candidates for tick throws (note that overal frame data could change too):
- 1
- 123
- F12
- D1
- 2
- B3
- F33
- D3
- D4
Some interesting ones are 1 and F12 as both are neutral on block (so if you end up being able to tick throw from them, you could use them as neutral baits too.with F12 being much easier to confirm than 1 where even 11 has to be executed fast). 123 and F33 will see a lot of use too IMO if they can tick throw.
Again this is all theorycrafting and many of them could end up not tick throwing, but at least it's a preliminary list of what could happen.
Cryo's whole gameplan is about to change, his meterless damage is probably going to take a hit (depending on if the grab can be canceled into hammer without spending meter) and we still don't know if he's getting other changes (please sword starting string, please please please). But so far I'm hyped about all the time I'll spend trying to find every new possibility about this character again. It's like getting to open your favorite toy a second time lol.
PS:
And something that no one seems to be talking about... if they're taking this much effort into reworking the whole thing for multiple characters... you can be sure there are going to be plenty of secret brutalities. Cryo's brutality always looked like an incompleted one (at least it doesn't feel too brutal) so maybe as they're working with the move they added layers to it... or we could be getting a hammer brutal!
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) but I'm getting too high knowing that every single combo is changing. I thought I would just need to learn a couple of new neutral stuff like a sword string or something, learn the distances but every combo would be the same. This changes every single combo the character has (because Cryo's combos were basically A-B-C looping F421+3 lol), the damage is going to get a hit but the gamplan is going to be completly different.
