Strategy "Lighten up, will ya?!" Dr. Quinzel's trait

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

This thread is for changes to, discussion of, theory in, and all things regarding Harley's TRAIT.

There are places to discuss everything else about her you would want to talk about, like which costume is the best. (insurgency lol)

I'd like to first state that it is widely accepted that her trait is among the worst in the game and is Harley's true drawback. Sure, there are others, but this thread isn't for that.

Currently, to the best of my knowledge, Harley has no real safe setups to use a trait. There are a few options, all of which are non viable in any real match. In the event you are able to successfully trait up, there really isn't much to be gained as a result with the exception of the lucky dynamite which is a gigantic gamble in itself.

Some changes I've heard and some of their pros and cons:
1. Keep it the same but make it much safer.
This would be a viable option if the startup and/or recovery were MUCH faster
2. Make it selectable or remove buffs
This would be an amazing option. If they were selectable i imagine only one use per item per lifebar or extended recovery. This applies moreso to the dynamite which would be an amazing tool in which the possibilities are obvious. The recovery or limited usage of some sort would prevent it becoming overpowered.
3. Change it altogether
This is the most interesting. One of my suggestions I've made on another post would be similar to aquamans trait but with a different effect. She could activate the trait while being combo'd to cut damage received. Another might be to have double shots come from her guns/cupcakes for a time, similar to meter burning but withiut the cost of a meter. The following meter burn would result in an extra shot as normal.

These options would all not only have viable applications but they will be within realistic standards of character traits.

So.... I'd like to see what everyone has to say about ol' Harley and her trait.
Remember, lets be honest, realistic, and have fun. Harley is a great character but this trait is, as was stated above, USELESS.

 

[Sonho]

why not make specific strings that decides which trait"item" she gets?
Lets say you do a f13 , you will get the damage buff (Mr J picture) or somthing like that? Then you can actually combo in to the trait, use it and get the stuff you actually want.

 

[FlipinFlava]

imo make it selectable with better recovery, but there's a chance nothing happens with a huge recovery a la her fully charged pop pop

the chance for failure would need to be really high though, like 30-50%

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

That pop pop mess is bull, theres a chance of it failing when its barely charged too >_>
I like your thinking though, it's still a gamble, but at least theres a reward lol. Currently, you cant even call it a gamble because its a Lose lose situation.

selecting trait via prerequisite combo strings? That might be interesting... Like, you can get the bomb if you start a combo with b121 since thats one of her least likely combo starters. Then again, you might be better off just doing a regular combo instead of 2 smaller ones.

 

[FlipinFlava]

i've never seen pop pop fail unless i fully charged it
maybe you were going for a lvl 2 charge and held it too long?

 

[Saint Connor]

Just make the buffs safe. I can deal with the randomness of the trait, but it should in no way be random AND punishable. It's complete bullshit and makes it completely useless. What's the point of the HP regen buff if I get blown up for it, negating it's use? This is the simplest fix for NRS.

 

[FlipinFlava]

i feel like they'd have to nerf her in other ways if it was safe though because that damage boost is pretty significant

i would rather have her the way she currently is with a slightly less useless trait

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

i've never seen pop pop fail unless i fully charged it
maybe you were going for a lvl 2 charge and held it too long?

I been in the training room plenty of times lol. And theres no way to go for level 2 and accidentally charge all the way to level 4.

Back on topic, I agree with connor. If it were safer you could go for universal trait setups or try a setup that fits each trait and gamble your positioning for desired trait. As it is now, it actually has decent cooldown. Recovery and startup are the real issues

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

i feel like they'd have to nerf her in other ways if it was safe though because that damage boost is pretty significant

i would rather have her the way she currently is with a slightly less useless trait

That damage boost is only 33% chance and is comparable to other damage boosts in the game.

 

[Issen]

I'm not a Harley player, so apologies if I'm not in a position to speak.
Anyway, I think that it would be at least somewhat helpful to you guys if Harley's trait worked in a more similar manner to Platinum The Trinity's Drive in BlazBlue, that being this -- all of the items run in a cycle (i.e. it will always go dynamite > photo > plant or something), with the only 'random' element being what item you start with in a match.
I'm sure this has been suggested before, but I think it would be a very big help to you guys if it worked like that.

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

That would be a really nice addition but currently the problem is not the randomness. Its the fact that this trait is SO unsafe that we have no viable setup or situation to use it. I would even argue that in a situation that we did safely use the trait i believe the time and effort would have been better placed elsewhere, like okis, space control, or even blocking lol. Almost any wakeup blows our trait if we dont get a miracle dynamite, and that thing has a tiny hitbox and only reaches sweep

*edit*
youre a little more right than i thought actually lol. Knowing what would come out does slightly increase the safety factor even the order is randomly set at match start. But if the bomb isnt up first, the other 2 traits are still 100% unsafe anywhere anytime =\

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

This was posted by Burgesssssss in the buff wish list. I'll delete this repost if its against any rules or Burgesssssss asks me to.

"I've been thinking about her trait again.

I get what NRS were going for. She's mentally unstable and this causes her to be unpredictable in regards to what she pulls out of her bag. However, if they were trying to be true to her character, why does she get a damage boost and health regen? She has no superpowers. I think the health regen might be due to some sort of weird Poison Ivy healing plant thing, but the Joker picture? Does she just get some sort of inspiration after tongue-ing Mr. J that makes her inflict more damage?

That being said, the Poison Ivy plant isn't really Harley Quinn specific, which is a bit meh in my opinion. 1/3 of her personal trait is technically a trait of another character.

The Bomb totally makes sense, but it's the uncertainty of if you're going to get it or not that sucks. I've heard people say it would be OP if you could choose the bomb, as it would be an endless loop of unblockable resets. (Ares laughs at this btw) A solution would just be to have longer cooldown, or a limited amount of times you can use each item of her trait.

Thinking about alternatives to her trait, I came up with some suggestions. I know the likelihood of a brand new trait is slim to none, but it didn't stop me from thinking it over. Due to her not having any superpowers, I was thinking that instead of character buffs for Harley, her trait could have de-buffs for your opponent due to that magic syringe she carries about with her from Play Doctor. It could use the same animation as Play Doctor, and you could select which de-buff to choose from my pressing any of the directions and 4. Different coloured particles could glow to indicate which de-buff is active. All would remain active for the length of her current trait, but would take longer to recharge due to them not sucking so hard. The icon on the HUD could be a syringe refilling to determine when it's ready to use again.

b4- Resistance Reduction - Causes the opponent to take more damage. Pretty much the same properties as the Joker picture, except reversed.
f4- Damage Reduction - Causes the opponent to inflict less damage.
u4- Drowsyness- Causes the opponents speed to decrease. Similar to the Flash's, but not as slow, and gravity of combos is not affected.
d4- Bomb - Same as the current bomb, but with a longer recharge time.

One can dream..."

 

[Burgesssssss]

STEALIN' MAH IDEAZ.

 

[Saint Connor]

i feel like they'd have to nerf her in other ways if it was safe though because that damage boost is pretty significant

Except for the fact that it requires you to actually land a hit to benefit from the damage. It's not like Supe's trait that you can just activate mid combo. It requires setup followed by a mixup, that realistically, Harley doesn't have a whole lot of considering that they would more than likely be back on their feet by this time. Nevermind the fact the buff only lasts, like what, 6 seconds? Add the fact that getting said trait is completely random.

I'm asking this to be safe, not broken. I don't mind that I have to work my way back in and actually earn the damage. But I do mind the fact that the trait is useless in its current state. At this point, I might as well remove 4 from my stick and call it a day when playing her.

b4- Resistance Reduction - Causes the opponent to take more damage. Pretty much the same properties as the Joker picture, except reversed.
f4- Damage Reduction - Causes the opponent to inflict less damage.
u4- Drowsyness- Causes the opponents speed to decrease. Similar to the Flash's, but not as slow, and gravity of combos is not affected.
d4- Bomb - Same as the current bomb, but with a longer recharge time.

I'm assuming this would be separate from Play Doctor as combining this type of trait with PD would be OP as hell. Traited MB PDs anyone? With that in mind, I do like the idea. It reminds me of Valentine from Skull Girls.

P.S.- In regards to the Poison Ivy rose, Harley gained a power boost from "Red" in the comics. This is probably tribute to that.

 

[KamkaziChicila]

I don't think you guys understand if you make her Trait selectable and faster then she'll be broken. Say for example say 112 cancel into trait and you choose bomb, which is unblockable, your opponent takes free 30+% for no effort and after the combo is done she'll have trait ready to use again. We can't have it selectable, it just won't happen unless you want to lose unblock able bomb which I can't live without.

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

I don't think you guys understand if you make her Trait selectable and faster then she'll be broken. Say for example say 112 cancel into trait and you choose bomb, which is unblockable, your opponent takes free 30+% for no effort and after the combo is done she'll have trait ready to use again. We can't have it selectable, it just won't happen unless you want to lose unblock able bomb which I can't live without.

This is why i have suggested such things as a selectable trait with 1 use per item per life bar.

On a side note: i'd do something waaaaaay dirtier than 112 trait cancel lol

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

So far the most realistic way to buff the trait is to decrease startup and recovery. It will still be random, but safe.

 

[redeyes]

it sucks.

 

[KamkaziChicila]

This is why i have suggested such things as a selectable trait with 1 use per item per life bar.

You still can choose Bomb and still be OD with unblockables.

So far the most realistic way to buff the trait is to decrease startup and recovery. It will still be random, but safe.

Yea, this is most likely the only thing NRS will give for Harley's trait. They won't had do more damage off picture or more Health off Rose. I would love to be able to control the bomb distance, but that's pushing it already..

 

[Prinz]

why not make specific strings that decides which trait"item" she gets?
Lets say you do a f13 , you will get the damage buff (Mr J picture) or somthing like that? Then you can actually combo in to the trait, use it and get the stuff you actually want.

This is a good idea. I like it.

 

[Burgesssssss]

I'm assuming this would be separate from Play Doctor as combining this type of trait with PD would be OP as hell. Traited MB PDs anyone? With that in mind, I do like the idea. It reminds me of Valentine from Skull Girls.

Yeah in my mind it's not a special move which you can use trait to enhance, it's a seperate move on it's own, which cannot be MBd. It would do 10% damage like non MB PD, and scale accordingly in combos. Maybe she could yell "yikes", or add a little taunt or something, just to distinguish it from PD.

I do get that infinite unblockable bombs could be OPd, which is why I'd suggest a longer cool down, or maybe you have to reload the syringe yourself after the combo, which then starts the recharge. This would still work to the surprise factor that Harley gets when she pulls out a bomb, as she's meaning to grab a syringe, in comparison to now where she (I assume) wants to grab the Ivy Flower or Joker Picture.

Regarding her trait as it is at the moment, Ares can simply end combos and then start another with an unblockable. While he has no cooldown, the latest patch did make it a guessing game. Both pre and post patch, invulnerable wakeup moves stuffed his reset, and currently, invulnerable wakeups stuff Harley's trait bomb too, so it really might not be that OP'd. Especially with a longer cooldown.

PS. Can someone please tell me how to get the "so and so said" while quoting? lol

 

[cpmd4]

I like her unpredictable trait, though I wouldn't mind the cycle suggestion. The only thing it needs, in my opinion, is less recovery on both her damage boost and health regen, they are WAY too unsafe. Bomb is good as is.

 

[serge]

You can get the trait out very safely after a MB cupcakes. In this case the best is usually the flower or sometimes the joker picture.

 

[Sasuga]

I don't know, I harley use it. da da tsssss.

And her best costume is the Arkham one. ^_^

 

[natey2k4]

I think the easiest way to make the trait safe is to make the bomb have a larger screen distance.

The biggest reason the trait is unsafe right now, is because you have to be so close for the bomb (which is fine), but the other two traits take FOREVER and open you up to a full combo.

It's the only trait in the game (that I know of) that is a free combo to the opponent rather than assistance to to the player.

If the bomb was a further distance bomb with a slightly larger hitbox, everything would be fine, because you could back off and use the trait (buff the damage increase a few seconds so we can move back in).

So the fix;

Bomb gets a bigger hitbox, longer toss (2 Harley dashes away) - similar distance to cupcake bomb.
Mr. J picture gets a two second buff. (up close becomes a game of luck - if you get it, you get a longer damage buff, but if you don't, you basically open yourself up to a free 30-50% combo)
Flower stays the same.