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Lex Luthor: All the Right Tools with All the Wrong Numbers.

BDMao88

BDMao88

Filthy Casual
Dapman said:
On another note, what do you think Lex's bad match-ups are thus far, Mao? I've a couple ideas.
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Not to sure yet, everything feels well rounded and not sure if people don't care about Lex etc.

Even though superman's lasers are fast, you can still get a probe up, but you take a hit on the next laser...I still take this as a win as it disrupts the momentum and allows you to do a air charge or dash in. Unfortunately it's a guessing game I love to play.

Hawkgirl is giving me a little bit of trouble as I believe her charge move isn't punishable from what I know yet and it pushes her back.

Catwoman and Flash easily punish Lex when trying to use any of his tools.

All these matchups are still fun for me and I can't say that they are one sided =/.


Most important thing for Lex I feel is always having a probe up and punishing with a corps charge if from a distance. Trait dashing is a major factor for Lex getting in as it scares the opponent, but you need to feel out your opponent because if they have a multi hit wakeup like deathstroke you will take the hit. So you can jump it or get in but respect the wake up.

It's hard to simply say if you do a. you will get this result, because we all know it doesn't work out so easily in fighting games.
 
Malec

Malec

Apprentice
played my first online matches today and i feel like, if they ever "fix" his traid charge cancel "bug"(?), its gonna get realy hard for all lex players.
 
BDMao88

BDMao88

Filthy Casual
Malec said:
played my first online matches today and i feel like, if they ever "fix" his traid charge cancel "bug", its gonna get realy hard for all lex players.
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No way it can be a bug, if they honestly took that away I would drop Lex so fast it wouldn't even be funny. Full screen with 2 hit armor, what a joke.
 
CalDW19940

CalDW19940

Mortal
I kinda agree with the OP's comments on Lex though I hardly think he's bad. In fact so far I've not really encountered any character in particular who gives him any trouble but taht may just be due to not many players knowing how to fight Lex yet.

A lot of people say Deathstroke and in some ways yeah it's not an easy MU but a lot of Deathstrokes are pretty braindead so are pretty easy to dash in on or just corp charge punish. May be a bit harder against a Deathstroke that actually knows what they're doing.

Lex is very very reliant on a knockdown to actually do most of his stuff which isn't too bad since he can work with them very well but...the only thing I wish Lex could do is actually toss out something or trait after a throw effectively as his options are way way too slow on startup to take advantage of landing a throw in most cases unless he throws his opponent into a mine >>
 
Dapman

Dapman

Currently playing as Lex Luthor.
rev0lver said:
100% disagree with all the lex hate

hes really good just with a few really difficult matchups.
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Don't get me (or any Lex players here, I'd think) wrong, we're not gathering here to hate on Lex, we're here to discuss some of the points I've summarized in my original post. Are they true? Do they have merit? Where can the character go from here? How can we adapt? Is there more to Lex then what has been stated thus far?

Not a hate thread, my good man.

BDMao88 said:
Anyone wish that Lex's air charge was safe?
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Safe enough to drop a J+3 while falling? Hell yes! 1 more mind game wouldn't hurt us any!
 
CalDW19940

CalDW19940

Mortal
I was just thinking the other day about how Lex has to vary so much when fighting different characters, he can't really use the same strategies on multiple characters that often which isn't really a bad thing, if anything it shows how unique the devs made the roster.

When I was fighting my cousins Flash I noticed that a lot of my knockdowns could be punished due to his speed however armoring up at a slight distance from him gives you a huge advantage as Flash has trouble dealing with any resemblance of armor for the likes of Bane and Grundy and with Lex armored up he can go for a lot of straight up offensive stuff on Flash or just plow through Flash approach attempts. This in combination with the mine can force Flash to approach you in the air which Lex's axe will soon tell them is a bad idea.

Not sure if this changes the MU much but it seems to work a lot better than trying to just toss out orbs or mines like against other characters.
 
PND_Ketchup

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
You can take his slow normals and apply it from an on hit D1. That will guarantee a 50/50 as mentioned in this forum before.

B2,U3 is really good, safe on block, and a really nice way to keep the opponent in check when it comes to watching out for highs and lows, without having to commit to any unsafe vortex specials. Plus you can hitconfirm it into B2,U3,D3 for ok damage, not bad for a safe string.

Lets say you land a B3 frm his armor bait, you can go into a combo, end it in MB Vortex (Sorry, cant remember the name), hit them with a D1 and then go into your 50/50, even if you go for an overhead string instead of overhead MB vortex again, you'll still land really solid damage from the reset. Plus you can go into his low that can be hitconfirmed.

The ahrd knockdown from the corp charge is a pretty big thing, the free orb/trait/mine you get is really helpful, and can set up for more damage, not to mention the orb is great at stuffing any offense attempt.

Some characters can backdash, but you can chase it down if you read the backdash, and full combo punish them.

I agree about his corner game, it's really good so far.

The problem I find with Lex is that anyone that can even remotely stuff him at fullscreen is a handful, if he can't get anything going it's incredibly hard to land any hits because of his speed.

Sorry if I'm repeating information here, just thought I'd mention what I know up to this point.
 
rev0lver

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
The problem with Lex is that he has such an atypical playstyle that a lot of people won't be suited for. He has a billion setups and gimmicks but nothing guaranteed. Thankfully though, this suits my playstyle perfectly even though I wasn't planning on playing him before. I wish I had a cap card to show how much I've found just in the past couple days.
 
Malec

Malec

Apprentice
rev0lver said:
The problem with Lex is that he has such an atypical playstyle that a lot of people won't be suited for. He has a billion setups and gimmicks but nothing guaranteed. Thankfully though, this suits my playstyle perfectly even though I wasn't planning on playing him before. I wish I had a cap card to show how much I've found just in the past couple days.
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why is this a problem? xD i love the fact that he is underused/underrated, i hate to play the same char everyone else is playing.
lex is an awesome char, playing the demo, with his ugly default outfit and his slow motion movement and jumps, i thought i would never play this char, but now, he is just the most fun to use char for me. i realy hope he wont have to bad match ups in the long run of the game (after all the patches, nerfs/buffs). 4-6 matchups are fine for me, but starting with 3-7....i hate to be forced to use counterpicks, cause i cant win with my main cause of the matchup.
 
Wemfs

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
rev0lver said:
The problem with Lex is that he has such an atypical playstyle that a lot of people won't be suited for. He has a billion setups and gimmicks but nothing guaranteed. Thankfully though, this suits my playstyle perfectly even though I wasn't planning on playing him before. I wish I had a cap card to show how much I've found just in the past couple days.
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Please do share with us your findings
 
rev0lver

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Wemfs said:
Please do share with us your findings
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a few things i was playing around with last night over the more simple setups -

ending a combo with 11/21~far mine, j3 on hit will throw them into it. you can charge as well but this is safer.

ending with something into orb, charge then trait on hit or block. in many (but not all) circumstances the orb gives you a free trait if they try and punish. mb orb would probably guarantee it except for fast knockdown punishes like lex's charge. i'm going to work on the timing to see if i can guarantee it.

creating tough blocking situations with mines and 22d1

though it's a rare situation, a huge but awesome gimmick with super. charge on hit into far mine. if they block it, the weird pushback on the last hit of the super puts them right on the mine. trust me they'll fall for it (unless they jump the super ;_; )

orb into a projectile interactable. though they'll obviously want to avoid the interactable more than the orb, it'll make them question their movement

im not sure what to do with this yet exactly, but you can hit the top of your opponent's head with j2 or j1 and cancel into charge to go over their head. just found it interesting. i'll make some gimmick with it sometime i guess.

so yeah really gimmicky stuff but that's the point and it's who i am I WAS BORN THIS WAY
 
Fenn the Fool!

Fenn the Fool!

woohoo
From what we know now I can't see Lex being a viable character. A large chunk of the roster completely shuts down his ranged game meaning he has to go in; at close range he has no real way to keep pressure up and isn't rewarded with much when he does land a hit. His low string is great but all of his overhead and throw options are extremely low damage and don't leave you with enough advantage to set up anything. He's a really cool character, I want him to be good, but somebody's gonna have to find some crazy tech to make him playable.

Edit: those are some pretty cool gimmicks rev0lver, they really could catch some people unaware. Once.
 
Jetm

Jetm

That Guy
Fenn the Fool! said:
His low string is great but all of his overhead and throw options are extremely low damage and don't leave you with enough advantage to set up anything.

Edit: those are some pretty cool gimmicks rev0lver, they really could catch some people unaware. Once.
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Except his overhead options do, in fact, leave you with plenty of time to set up anything you want, even a mine while still maintaining advantage.
 
Wemfs

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
His f2 gives you all the time in the world to set something up. Actually yo can f2, lvl3 trait, dash forward, and still have enough time to block any wake up in the game. I tested it against luthor's 6 frame corps charge, assuming his charge is the fastest special in the game.

How bout them apples?
 
PANDEMlC

PANDEMlC

El Psy Congroo
Why is this "trait cancel" so good? Are you doing it after corps charge and then applying pressure with it?

I still plan on playing Lex I just stopped to focus more on Grundy again. But during my 100 win journey with him I didn't know about the fact that you could dash cancel his trait.
 
Jetm

Jetm

That Guy
PANDEMlC said:
Why is this "trait cancel" so good? Are you doing it after corps charge and then applying pressure with it?

I still plan on playing Lex I just stopped to focus more on Grundy again. But during my 100 win journey with him I didn't know about the fact that you could dash cancel his trait.
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Dash canceling his trait gives you the armor the second you begin dashing. But wait, there's more! As long as you hold the button, the trait still continues to charge levels despite already being active! This all means it takes less time to get his trait up and running, and you're guaranteed a level two or three as long as you use it intelligently.
 
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