Lex Luthor: All the Right Tools with All the Wrong Numbers.

[Dapman]

Before anything is stated, I would like to say that this game is still very young, and my opinion is based on about 150 games of nothing but Lex Luthor. It's no secret by now that Lex is considered by many to be one of the worst characters in the game. Whether or not this holds true has yet to be verified, though the points I will be making below should be enough to compile a decent and balanced viewpoint on his major strengths and weaknesses.

Pros:
- Great trap potential through mines.
- Zoning can be decent with proper execution.
- Corps charge is a nice punisher.
- J+3 is an insane jumping overhead with nice damage and priority (gives a free corps charge if it connects).
- Gravity pull has decent range and can be used to set up a majority of Lex's combos (though it is unsafe).
- Probes are great for knocking opponents out of combos or buying time/space for Luthor's space game.
- His unblockable laser is handy for extending combos in the corner (meter burn) and can be useful when probe/s or a mine are set up.
- Trait is good for rushdown or trading with other characters normals.
- Anti-air is ok with J+3, Corps Charge, and U+3 covering all his AA options.

Cons:
- Lex has very slow normals, with one of his main strings (1,1,2) whiffing on crouching opponents despite the first two hits being mids.
- His standing overhead options are slow (F+2 and B+2).
- Most of Lex's special moves have huge start up times and are only useful in a handful of matches where breathing room can be attained.
- Completely shut down by characters with faster projectiles (does not allow him time to set up mines/probes due to being shot out of them).
- Start up time on his trait is rather long, though it can be made slightly safer if the Lex player begins dashing while holding down 4.
- Has very few tools to deal with fast rushdown characters (save for D+1 or Corps Charge punishing only the most unsafe strings/specials up close).
- Terrible projectiles (d,b+1 does a measly 3 percent uncharged).

This is generally what I have managed to compile in my 150+ sessions of Luthor play, and no this doesn't mean I'm dropping the character. I still have a lot of fun with him and thoroughly enjoy his play style. Unless I've missed a key aspect to how he's supposed to be played, I could see him receiving some buffs in the future.

I would appreciate the input of fellow Lex players and am more then open to changing or rearranging some things on the list if I have missed anything. Thank you for your time, gentlemen.

 

[PANDEMlC]

All sounds spot on to me.

 

[xWildx]

I never really see Lex players take advantage of his trait during the knockdown of his Corps Charge.

 

[PANDEMlC]

I never really see Lex players take advantage of his trait during the knockdown of his Corps Charge.

You see Lex players? I think I'm going to write down every Lex player I see from now on that I run into. I've maybe seen... 2 max. Both were just casual players messing around with no real idea how to use him too.

 

[Dapman]

I never really see Lex players take advantage of his trait during the knockdown of his Corps Charge.

I think most characters can punish lex during their wake-up for trying to go into trait after corps charge. It was deduced as not being free in the Lex strategy thread, I believe. Though I thought for a good while that trait was free after a corps charge knockdown. I was disappointed when I found out that it is not.

Any character with a fast special/normal near Luthor as he enters the trait animation can whack him out of it.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

His overhead is actually fast for an overhead; try playing Catwoman or Green Lantern I think Lex's is about 15 frames, which is among some of the faster overheads in the game.

I honestly have more trouble with really strong zoners than rushdown characters. Since Lex's d1 leads to 50/50, even rushdown characters have to be careful or they'll end up combo'ed and knocked back to fullscreen where you can set up traps again.

I'm trying to get better at backdashing and punishing, and also at mixing up my strings on jump-in.

 

[xWildx]

I think most characters can punish lex during their wake-up for trying to go into trait after corps charge. It was deduced as not being free in the Lex strategy thread, I believe. Though I thought for a good while that trait was free after a corps charge knockdown. I was disappointed when I found out that it is not.

Any character with a fast special/normal near Luthor as he enters the trait animation can whack him out of it.

I understand, I made a topic equally questioning Catwoman's viability, it spurred on some good tech talk haha. We just have to abuse training mode a little harder

 

[Dapman]

His overhead is actually fast for an overhead; try playing Catwoman or Green Lantern I think Lex's is about 15 frames, which is among some of the faster overheads in the game.

I honestly have more trouble with really strong zoners than rushdown characters. Since Lex's d1 leads to 50/50, even rushdown characters have to be careful or they'll end up combo'ed and knocked back to fullscreen where you can set up traps again.

I'm trying to get better at backdashing and punishing, and also at mixing up my strings on jump-in.

How do you feel about his dash? I was going to list it under cons but I wasn't sure if it was just me.. or if it's rather lackluster. Visually, it appears (and feels, if that sounds right) really slow, with slight delay near the end of the dash. Other characters feel crisp and smooth as they dash forward or backwards. Just me?

 

[Wemfs]

Everything sounds correct to me.

I see Lex as a momentum based character with a potentially very strong corner game. I think he has all the tools needed to be a formidable opponent against any character on the roster. We just have to put the puzzle pieces together. When to trait, when to probe, when to do this and that, what to do after, and all that jazz. I have high hopes for this character. Keep at it my fellow Lex mains!

 

[volkmair]

It seems like Lex is very dependent on you knowing each match up very well and what to do. While some characters can have 1 game plan for every matchup with Lex you need to know which of his tools are viable as they can either be great or useless depending on who you are against. This doesn't make Lex bad as such just that you need to be very aware of how to use his toolset.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I haven't fought a single Luthor on PSN yet. Idk why Live gets the luck of the more diverse online cast .

 

[Dapman]

It seems like Lex is very dependent on you knowing each match up very well and what to do. While some characters can have 1 game plan for every matchup with Lex you need to know which of his tools are viable as they can either be great or useless depending on who you are against. This doesn't make Lex bad as such just that you need to be very aware of how to use his toolset.

I'll be ready to chip in some input when the match-up discussion sees some updates, that's for certain. I've an idea of how some match-ups are probably going to end up, though I'd still rather leave room for a hopeful turn around of my assumptions.

 

[BDMao88]

Lex is not a zoner and you should never just hang back with him. He is a space controller...yes, it is as bad ass as it sounds.

It's very easy to duck under projectiles to get a probe out then trait dash and then all hell breaks loose with your opponent looking like a deer in headlights. I like how Lex is very situational, as with a trait dash I can practically get in your face for an easy grab unless you're DS and wake up with a multi hit attack, I can go for a overhead/low , or do a ji2/3 or away 3.

I love d1 pressure, but fighting characters like NW in his pole stance is a pain, but d3 has great range.

If Lex recovered quickly from an air charge or had a move like aquaman where he could pound the ground with his staff for an instant hit he would be beyond broken.

Lex is far from the bottom and people find him very hard to fight against in the right hands.

Now if I could only find a use for his stupid lance...

 

[BDMao88]

I think people stay away from Lex because he is huge, bald, and no massive combos. *yes a full combo on to a mine is beyond unpractical*

What is more practical though is finishing a combo with a mine, crossing your fingers they land on it and doing another combo which the highest total amount doing both combos would be 74% with two bars. This only works with a close or medium mine as you can only corps charge a far mine or use it to get a oribtal out etc...

 

[Dapman]

Lex is not a zoner and you should never just hang back with him. He is a space controller...yes, it is as bad ass as it sounds.

It's very easy to duck under projectiles to get a probe out then trait dash and then all hell breaks loose with your opponent looking like a deer in headlights. I like how Lex is very situational, as with a trait dash I can practically get in your face for an easy grab unless you're DS and wake up with a multi hit attack, I can go for a overhead/low , or do a ji2/3 or away 3.

I love d1 pressure, but fighting characters like NW in his pole stance is a pain, but d3 has great range.

If Lex recovered quickly from an air charge or had a move like aquaman where he could pound the ground with his staff for an instant hit he would be beyond broken.

Lex is far from the bottom and people find him very hard to fight against in the right hands.

Now if I could only find a use for his stupid lance...

I'd like to touch on this bolded part of your post.

Which characters can you get a free probe out of after ducking their projectiles? Any that come to mind? Most characters have faster specials (especially projectiles) then Lex does (barring corps charge, maybe).

As for your comments on the lance... well, I haven't found any use for it. Its damage is too low to trade, the range is reduced on a 1 second charge and the increase in damage is only 3 percent. A full charge does unblockable 10 percent but charges WAY too slow. I don't think it has many uses save for maybe poking someone with very low life.

 

[BDMao88]

Dapman
So far only char I really have a problem with MIGHT be harley. I still rather get a probe out even if it means taking a hit. You should be punishing a lot with corps charge as it allows you to probe and trait charge.

I have injustice for either system, if you play anyone else I'm more than willing to play with you.

 

[GoodLifeGodLike]

Lex is all I play. I find I have success when I'm in their face, especially zoners, Lex is terrible if hes full screen against zoners. On knockdown I lay out mines and jump in with that ginormous ax as they crouch to block the mine, following up with corp charge on hit. I think the key is to abuse the probes, those give us the time we need to lay mines or use trait, I love tossing out two, pretty much gives you a free throw plus the two hits they give you. I don't think he's low tier at all, mixing in jip3, mines, probes, the reach of d3 and the lance blasts are enough to play with their heads.

 

[Dapman]

Dapman
So far only char I really have a problem with MIGHT be harley. I still rather get a probe out even if it means taking a hit. You should be punishing a lot with corps charge as it allows you to probe and trait charge.

I have injustice for either system, if you play anyone else I'm more than willing to play with you.

Harley's are a pain in my ass, and so is any character with fast normals and quick projectile attacks. Sometimes Deathstrokes can also be a pain because not all of them are so 1-dimensional in their strategy.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

I haven't even played anyone, but I am certain that Black Adam will be a horrendous MU for Lex.

 

[BDMao88]

Harley's are a pain in my ass, and so is any character with fast normals and quick projectile attacks. Sometimes Deathstrokes can also be a pain because not all of them are so 1-dimensional in their strategy.

I understand, things don't feel like an instant win, it's like we have to constantly work our ass off for it. I just get a lot of pleasure from using Lex for some reason, I tried him a little in the demo and since than I've been in love. I feel very passionate about him and feel like he has a lot going for him.

Honestly whole reason why I even chose Lex in the demo is because he is such a D-bag which makes it a bit funny using him, plus at the time I wasn't a fan of Superman.

Anytime I fight someone it's either horribly one sided in my favor or we go back and forth and this is for any character. Whenever I say ggs, I always get them saying how frustrating it is to fight Lex....so far my experience is it's all about respecting that probe. Yes you can dodge it, but this is a fighting game and it's all about making reads.

Worst thing about lex....being crossed up...I want to break the game right now.

 

[BDMao88]

I haven't even played anyone, but I am certain that Black Adam will be a horrendous MU for Lex.

Almost forgot....he is haha. but with time if you know how to fight people it's enjoyable. Game just came out, find a great black adam player and play over and over.

 

[Dapman]

I understand, things don't feel like an instant win, it's like we have to constantly work our ass off for it. I just get a lot of pleasure from using Lex for some reason, I tried him a little in the demo and since than I've been in love. I feel very passionate about him and feel like he has a lot going for him.

Anytime I fight someone it's either horribly one sided in my favor or we go back and forth and this is for any character. Whenever I say ggs, I always get them saying how frustrating it is to fight Lex....so far my experience is it's all about respecting that probe. Yes you can dodge it, but this is a fighting game and it's all about making reads.

Worst thing about lex....being crossed up...I want to break the game right now.

Yep, and that's another issue I've been having. On top of having to work very hard for all my wins, it seems as though being crossed up with Lex is one of the most annoying things ever. I had a really good Harley crap all over me throughout a match because it seemed as though she was crossing me up despite my actual block decisions. Hit box? No idea, what a pain.

As much as I enjoy Lex's play style, he is most definitely a character for masochists. We could very easily pick other characters and win more often and with much less effort. Oddly, there's just something enjoyable about his gadget-reliant method of play..

 

[BDMao88]

Oddly, there's just something enjoyable about his gadget-reliant method of play..

I think it's the lazy side of me...haha

 

[Dapman]

On another note, what do you think Lex's bad match-ups are thus far, Mao? I've a couple ideas.

 

[Jetm]

On another note, what do you think Lex's bad match-ups are thus far, Mao? I've a couple ideas.

I'd have to say Superman and Nightwing stand out as at least slightly unfavorable matchups.

Superman's laser zoning is hell on Lex since he can't dash between lasers reliably, nor trade with the beams. Furthermore, Lex's trait is rendered considerably less useful thanks to superman's trait breaking through armor, even going so far as to dissipate the shield on block (because why not?).

Nightwing simply beats Lex's armor with his very fast, multihitting strings and three-hit projectiles. There's also the matter of his d1 in pole stance, as was mentioned earlier.

I haven't played much more of the cast to make a solid opinion, though I would say that Lex probably has a favorable match against Grundy thanks to his trait absorbing throws and Grundy's armor options typically being only one hit.