myri
Time Warrior
So what’s up guys, your resident Bo’ Rai Cho professor here again and I wanted to bring up a topic to discuss today because it’s one of the few things I hope gets some changes if there is in fact any more patches coming for MKXL. This will be a long post so be warned. Basically I want to talk about Bo’ Rai Cho’s Drunken Master variation and how it could be changed, overhauled or completely redesigned to be somewhat decent at least. There aren’t many variations in this game which are truly bad but this is one of them. The whole problem with this variation that I’ve found over the time that I’ve played it hinges on two very important problems.
Number one; getting drunk in the neutral safely and number two; being able to make use of your ten seconds after you do get drunk. Basically the entire design of this variation is based around taking a huge risk, to get access to some decent specials, all the while incurring an even bigger risk due to the ten second timer. Drunken Master has been this way since its release with the only notable change being the addition of a second hit of armour to his db1, which he needs to be drunk to do in the first place.
(I’m not even joking; the only other changes were to his b3 command grab hitbox and altering his drink input so it doesn’t dispel full screen effects like nimble Reptile’s ability and Jason’s red screen, that’s literally all the other changes this variation has received.)
Despite this, Bo in general received a good number of buffs, all of which are satisfactory in my opinion.
(Only other two I could really hope for are s1 reduced to 9 frames instead of 11 and f2 being a universal mid so that bartitsu has one as well. He doesn’t really need them though; they would be quality of life buffs.)
My problems and I’m sure everyone else who plays this variations problems are due to the variation specific mechanics themselves, so don’t worry about me crying for more buffs to Bo, he’s fine as is, it’s just the variation specific stuff that is getting us down. The biggest issue is the ten second time limit we set on ourselves to access this variation’s tool set, the risk vs reward is pretty skewed against Bo because of this, so I’d like to discuss a couple of different ways to alter this variation to make it more user friendly, while also keeping it fair.
Idea 1: No timer for being drunk, drunk level resets to zero on hit.
So first off, the drink remains a three level system, same moves, same frame data everything, except we now have unlimited time in our drunk state as long as we don’t get hit by our enemy. As someone who uses this character to a high level, it’s very hard to apply a LOT of Bo’s setups and set play in the corner when I constantly need to adjust myself to when I last drank. The majority of Bo’s setups in the corner don’t actually work because the drink as he either needs a drink beforehand, which usually means a previous combo in his corner set play or he hasn’t got a level in drink which prevents him from using his launching abilities from the Drunken Master stance.
However this change would allow Bo to access his full arsenal of corner set play in the corner without being hampered by the drink, as long as he manages to keep hitting his opponent without getting hit himself. It would still be risky to try and drink in the neutral and still very unsafe to drink on a string on block, but it would allow Bo to get his momentum going once he does get that initial touch.
What this also means is that Bo can opt to stay at a specific level of being drunk. Let’s say for instance I want access to df1, which requires level two drink, but I also want his normal df2, which leaves his opponent standing at level one and two, but at level three changes to knock the opponent down. With this I could opt to stay at level two as I don’t need to drink since there is no timer, which allows me a greater choice of options. I’m open to suggestions to possibly add downsides to this change as well if you feel it is too much, like I said I want to keep this variation fair while making it more accessible.
Also just from a straight up character stand point Bo is supposed to be THE DRUNKEN MASTER, he should be able to hold his drink for more than ten seconds at a time, I mean he invented the fighting style supposedly in the MK storyline right?
Idea 2: Drastically increase the opportunity to drink and lower the risk of drinking, while keeping the timer.
What this would involve is streamlining the drinking system to allow Bo an easier time to both get drunk and stay drunk without risking as much. Some examples of this would be allowing Bo to drink while in the stance, allowing him to immediately go into the stance after drinking by holding down after inputting the drink command, allowing him to cancel his command grab strings into drink, also holding down after doing a roll forward or back allows Bo to stay in the stance, while still only being able to roll twice before his stamina needs to recharge.
What this would also entail is a much faster recovery on the drink move itself, to allow Bo to get a drink in his neutral game and also so he can safely drink after a knockdown from his flips at all places on screen, which I think is a fair trade off, you sacrifice the chance for an OTG to get a drink in and also would really help to be less hampering to his set play. This is also probably the easiest and cheapest overhaul for NRS to do so it seems attractive just from that standpoint too.
Idea 3: Bo has access to his entire toolset without drinking and drinking only enhances his moves / Bo has access to the stance and everything out of the stance.
The main tool that Bo gets (in my opinion at least) in this variation is the stance and is basically the bread and butter of what this variation can do. Currently you can access the stance without drinking by using b4 and holding down but this makes it impractical for use in combos of course. A simple change would be to allow Bo to cancel into the stance without being drunk, so he is able to combo with his low launcher whenever he needs to. The low and mid launchers both remain unsafe so don’t worry.
Another version of this idea is to just give Bo all his moves at level zero drunk and have them be enhanced in same way, I’m really sure how, he isn’t really lacking in the damage department, maybe just only allowing certain moves at certain levels the same as now, df1 at level two and different versions of db1 and df2 at different levels.
Anyway, those are the three main concepts I wanted to share and discuss with you guys. If you guys have any other ideas or suggestions based on these existing ideas then feel free to talk about them. I know that the chances of another patch are slim to none but I’m just really passionate about this character (if it wasn't already obvious) and if there is any chance we can get this variation on par with the other two then I’d like to take it.
I’m going to tag anyone who I think may be relevant to this discussion. If anyone knows the tags for anyone at NRS could you drop them in here too, I’d really like to at least make them aware that this is one of the variation’s we would like to have them take another look at if they do end up doing another patch. Also tag any other Bo players who I've forgotten please.
@Thefish @Percimon @PND OmegaK @Marinjuana @FrankOceansWaifu @TamedLizard @Name v.5.0 @Youphemism @pretty flocko
Number one; getting drunk in the neutral safely and number two; being able to make use of your ten seconds after you do get drunk. Basically the entire design of this variation is based around taking a huge risk, to get access to some decent specials, all the while incurring an even bigger risk due to the ten second timer. Drunken Master has been this way since its release with the only notable change being the addition of a second hit of armour to his db1, which he needs to be drunk to do in the first place.
(I’m not even joking; the only other changes were to his b3 command grab hitbox and altering his drink input so it doesn’t dispel full screen effects like nimble Reptile’s ability and Jason’s red screen, that’s literally all the other changes this variation has received.)
Despite this, Bo in general received a good number of buffs, all of which are satisfactory in my opinion.
(Only other two I could really hope for are s1 reduced to 9 frames instead of 11 and f2 being a universal mid so that bartitsu has one as well. He doesn’t really need them though; they would be quality of life buffs.)
My problems and I’m sure everyone else who plays this variations problems are due to the variation specific mechanics themselves, so don’t worry about me crying for more buffs to Bo, he’s fine as is, it’s just the variation specific stuff that is getting us down. The biggest issue is the ten second time limit we set on ourselves to access this variation’s tool set, the risk vs reward is pretty skewed against Bo because of this, so I’d like to discuss a couple of different ways to alter this variation to make it more user friendly, while also keeping it fair.
Idea 1: No timer for being drunk, drunk level resets to zero on hit.
So first off, the drink remains a three level system, same moves, same frame data everything, except we now have unlimited time in our drunk state as long as we don’t get hit by our enemy. As someone who uses this character to a high level, it’s very hard to apply a LOT of Bo’s setups and set play in the corner when I constantly need to adjust myself to when I last drank. The majority of Bo’s setups in the corner don’t actually work because the drink as he either needs a drink beforehand, which usually means a previous combo in his corner set play or he hasn’t got a level in drink which prevents him from using his launching abilities from the Drunken Master stance.
However this change would allow Bo to access his full arsenal of corner set play in the corner without being hampered by the drink, as long as he manages to keep hitting his opponent without getting hit himself. It would still be risky to try and drink in the neutral and still very unsafe to drink on a string on block, but it would allow Bo to get his momentum going once he does get that initial touch.
What this also means is that Bo can opt to stay at a specific level of being drunk. Let’s say for instance I want access to df1, which requires level two drink, but I also want his normal df2, which leaves his opponent standing at level one and two, but at level three changes to knock the opponent down. With this I could opt to stay at level two as I don’t need to drink since there is no timer, which allows me a greater choice of options. I’m open to suggestions to possibly add downsides to this change as well if you feel it is too much, like I said I want to keep this variation fair while making it more accessible.
Also just from a straight up character stand point Bo is supposed to be THE DRUNKEN MASTER, he should be able to hold his drink for more than ten seconds at a time, I mean he invented the fighting style supposedly in the MK storyline right?
Idea 2: Drastically increase the opportunity to drink and lower the risk of drinking, while keeping the timer.
What this would involve is streamlining the drinking system to allow Bo an easier time to both get drunk and stay drunk without risking as much. Some examples of this would be allowing Bo to drink while in the stance, allowing him to immediately go into the stance after drinking by holding down after inputting the drink command, allowing him to cancel his command grab strings into drink, also holding down after doing a roll forward or back allows Bo to stay in the stance, while still only being able to roll twice before his stamina needs to recharge.
What this would also entail is a much faster recovery on the drink move itself, to allow Bo to get a drink in his neutral game and also so he can safely drink after a knockdown from his flips at all places on screen, which I think is a fair trade off, you sacrifice the chance for an OTG to get a drink in and also would really help to be less hampering to his set play. This is also probably the easiest and cheapest overhaul for NRS to do so it seems attractive just from that standpoint too.
Idea 3: Bo has access to his entire toolset without drinking and drinking only enhances his moves / Bo has access to the stance and everything out of the stance.
The main tool that Bo gets (in my opinion at least) in this variation is the stance and is basically the bread and butter of what this variation can do. Currently you can access the stance without drinking by using b4 and holding down but this makes it impractical for use in combos of course. A simple change would be to allow Bo to cancel into the stance without being drunk, so he is able to combo with his low launcher whenever he needs to. The low and mid launchers both remain unsafe so don’t worry.
Another version of this idea is to just give Bo all his moves at level zero drunk and have them be enhanced in same way, I’m really sure how, he isn’t really lacking in the damage department, maybe just only allowing certain moves at certain levels the same as now, df1 at level two and different versions of db1 and df2 at different levels.
Anyway, those are the three main concepts I wanted to share and discuss with you guys. If you guys have any other ideas or suggestions based on these existing ideas then feel free to talk about them. I know that the chances of another patch are slim to none but I’m just really passionate about this character (if it wasn't already obvious) and if there is any chance we can get this variation on par with the other two then I’d like to take it.
I’m going to tag anyone who I think may be relevant to this discussion. If anyone knows the tags for anyone at NRS could you drop them in here too, I’d really like to at least make them aware that this is one of the variation’s we would like to have them take another look at if they do end up doing another patch. Also tag any other Bo players who I've forgotten please.
@Thefish @Percimon @PND OmegaK @Marinjuana @FrankOceansWaifu @TamedLizard @Name v.5.0 @Youphemism @pretty flocko
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