Let's be honest, where is Darkseid as a character?

[Akromaniac27]

His 2 is garbage, man. It doesn't have bad startup, but it has horrible range and leads to nothing special, really. Not hitconfirm/combo wise, that is.

He has neutral, but it's just not up to snuff compared to pretty much the rest of the cast's.

I still fail to see why he would NEED it. He doesn't lack neutral, it just isn't as good, according to you guys. Idk about anyone else, but having to put up with top zoning, 50/50's crossups and the such, to then face an armor breaking advancing special in the neutral, or a 6f D1 upclose, doesn't make it a walk in the park or put you in a position to effectively challenge the character.

 

[CrazyFingers]

What are you doing to get people to respect your frames? People probably haven't fully learned to just mash against Darkseid if you think he's gonna fish for damage (f23 or b1u3) after being plus.

If you're close enough S2 (but we know the issue with that, it works sometimes tho) instant air stomp (it's risky as fuck but it'll stop them from mashing) D1 into special stops a lot of mashing too (D1 xx Low Laser or Knee if you have meter.) Grabs actually do wonders to stop mashing since they're relatively quick mids.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Tho I mostly try to space them out B1 has some actual decent range. Low Omega Beam/Sweep do good things. F2 has good range even tho it's a high it's still useful.

 

[Eldriken]

I still fail to see why he would NEED it. He doesn't lack neutral, it just isn't as good, according to you guys. Idk about anyone else, but having to put up with top zoning, 50/50's crossups and the such, to then face an armor breaking advancing special in the neutral, or a 6f D1 upclose, doesn't make it a walk in the park or put you in a position to effectively challenge the character.

Considering armor isn't a huge thing in this game, why are you bringing it up? That would have to be on a read in order for that to be really beneficial and armor doesn't seem to be as present in this game as it was in MKX.

But why are you and others completely ignoring what our real issue is as Darkseid players? He suffers from being disrespected. A d1 on hit doesn't guarantee him anything other than maybe another d1. You can't use any of his launching strings 'cause you will get disrespected and lose.

 

[AK partyeagle]

one of the main things @Eldriken is getting at is that when you are say, +2 from MB knees you can only really get d1 because s2 and anything else he presses gets beat by the opponents d1.

typically if I see them pressing a button I do d1xxlow lazer to get a knock down. which is fine, BUT robin ? if he is + frames and presses down one he gets 400 ish dmg and oki. its just not up to snuff with other characters.

granted that, he makes up for it in other areas but to be clear, he can not effectively rush down if he needs to get make up for a life deficit . Its just going to be something you need to realize and play around with that character. he definitely isnt a slouch, but he DOES have weaknesses unlike chars like bats

 

[CrazyFingers]

Also as long as he beats Deadshot, he will be relevant if Deadshot is as relevant as he is right now.

 

[AK partyeagle]

Also as long as he beats Deadshot, he will be relevant if Deadshot is as relevant as he is right now.

exactly, thats why Darkseid is my perpetual back up char for a while.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Lol let's not go overboard here, fellas. His air teleport has 63 fucking frames of recovery and you have to delay even further if you want to be in range to go straight for the low option instead of the overhead to low. Anyone getting mixed when he doesn't have trait out to cover his ass should try just facerolling the controller to beat that with literally anything at all instead of crying about the mix.

And speaking of beating things, a 6 frame d1 will interrupt d1-low laser, so that's not even a thing worth mentioning. And d1-mb knee sounds like the lamest use of meter this side of trying to mb roll between DS wrist cannons. The literal only time you don't have to disrespect Darkseid is when one of his trait minions is headed straight for your ass behind whatever he's trying to throw out lul.

I also think "top 3 zoning" might be a bit overblown in a game with Deadshot, Dr. Fate, Cyborg, Ivy, Firestorm, Green Lantern, Blue Beetle, Superman, etc. Too early to tell how the chips will fall with all of them in terms of zoning I think, but doubt he will crack the top 3.

Call it downplay all you want but I still love him and think he's more than viable enough. Hell I think Swamp Thing is decent enough to play too though so maybe that doesn't mean anything. Truth be told I just think he's one of the characters who's going to fall down the tier list as the game goes on should things remain the same, unless some really fucking broken trait set-ups are found (which he def has the potential for). I like where he's at but anyone who thinks he's going to end up on top without any buttons is lol.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

As harley I cant even whiff punish dark seids lasers. It trades. there's nothing anyone can do. His zoning is a joke, simple. It needs nerfs. anyone who disagrees is either stupid or a dark seid player.

 

[CrazyFingers]

As harley I cant even whiff punish dark seids lasers. It trades. there's nothing anyone can do. His zoning is a joke, simple. It needs nerfs. anyone who disagrees is either stupid or a dark seid player.

Man the argument of "His tools beat mine, nerf him" is really convincing and definitely not biased at all. Look Harley isn't a dedicated zoner, plain and simple. Darkseid IS a dedicated zoner, plain and simple. I've played the Harley MU a good amount (granted not enough to know everything about it) but you do know that you could try not trying to compete with him full screen and getting in, right? I feel like people who are used to not being outzoned don't understand that in MUs where you are getting outzoned are the MUs where you need to use your projectiles as a means to get in, not a means to keep out. Harley has the potential to get in and give Darkseid a bad day. It's a very one sided, momentum based MU. If you can't handle that, pick a different character I guess.

 

[Eldriken]

As harley I cant even whiff punish dark seids lasers. It trades. there's nothing anyone can do. His zoning is a joke, simple. It needs nerfs. anyone who disagrees is either stupid or a dark seid player.

Why the hell are you trying to trade blows with a zoner from full screen? Especially with a projectile that does weak damage like Harley's?

Stop doing that if that's what you're doing and move in on him. Chances are that your normals will net you better results.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Why the hell are you trying to trade blows with a zoner from full screen? Especially with a projectile that does weak damage like Harley's?

Stop doing that if that's what you're doing and move in on him. Chances are that your normals will net you better results.

basically what I just said only less long winded xD great minds think alike?

 

[armani]

As harley I cant even whiff punish dark seids lasers. It trades. there's nothing anyone can do. His zoning is a joke, simple. It needs nerfs. anyone who disagrees is either stupid or a dark seid player.

as a harley player myself I blow up lasers like shit when I'm at fullscreen... lol
I feel like the only thing darkseid really really excels at is zoning, given his trait and how much space his MB lasers cover.
to semi-successfully counter darkseid (and any other zoner for that matter) you have to mix in your own projectiles and time your meter burn rolls.
with harley, the fact that her d1 combos into her bnb's is great against darkseid, given the fact that you can check him with d1

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

It's hard to play neutral when you get disrespected out of plus frames because your only two worthwhile strings to get any fucking damage from get beat out. Who cares if I'm +10 if all someone has to do is d1d1d1d1 and I end up losing?

This isn't downplaying, dude. It's a legit issue. Yes, he has great mixup POTENTIAL. He has great zoning POTENTIAL. He has great trait setup POTENTIAL. He has great damage POTENTIAL.

P.O.T.E.N.T.I.A.L. That's what he has. He has to be in a favorable situation for any of his potential to come to light, especially if he's going against someone with much better buttons than him or ways to get around his zoning.

Oh, and you even asked for him to have a real mid to compensate him lacking in other areas. So I don't wanna hear it. -_-

What potential lol i found mad dirt on knowdown and standing, if you do running guy and tele you get a free mixup if you do a hard knockdown or splat you can get expoldy guy tele while blowing him up and get a free mixup , his laser hitbox is godtier , he gets mad meter good dami etc.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Man the argument of "His tools beat mine, nerf him" is really convincing and definitely not biased at all. Look Harley isn't a dedicated zoner, plain and simple. Darkseid IS a dedicated zoner, plain and simple. I've played the Harley MU a good amount (granted not enough to know everything about it) but you do know that you could try not trying to compete with him full screen and getting in, right? I feel like people who are used to not being outzoned don't understand that in MUs where you are getting outzoned are the MUs where you need to use your projectiles as a means to get in, not a means to keep out. Harley has the potential to get in and give Darkseid a bad day. It's a very one sided, momentum based MU. If you can't handle that, pick a different character I guess.

There's literally nothing a harley player can do, and I'm sure it's the same for other characters too, This isn't even something you can defend. It's not about outzoning... most competent players who have a non-zoning or counter zoning character are not even looking to do that, if you can't even whiff punish his lasers with a counter zoning character, there is something seriously wrong

 

[SneakyTortoise]

What potential lol i found mad dirt on knowdown and standing, if you do running guy and tele you get a free mixup if you do a hard knockdown or splat you can get expoldy guy tele while blowing him up and get a free mixup , his laser hitbox is godtier , he gets mad meter good dami etc.

The only thing I'm concerned about with running guy tele mixup is if people start mb rolling out of it (haven't tested this at all though, just a thought that's come to me now)

 

[CrazyFingers]

There's literally nothing a harley player can do, and I'm sure it's the same for other characters too, This isn't even something you can defend. It's not about outzoning... most competent players who have a non-zoning or counter zoning character are not even looking to do that, if you can even whiff punish his lasers with a counter zoning character, there is something seriously wrong

Someone in this thread, literally just told you what you can do as a Harley player. If you can't take advice, I'd suggest you stop.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Someone in this thread, literally just told you what you can do as a Harley player. If you can't take advice, I'd suggest you stop.

It says exactly nothing. Every dark seid player i've faced, i've been unable to whiff punish. Whether it's lag or whatever it's ridiculous. I don't have as much of a problem with deadshot players as darkseid. Seriously you're a mod, stop defending this shit.

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

The only thing I'm concerned about with running guy tele mixup is if people start mb rolling out of it (haven't tested this at all though, just a thought that's come to me now)

Thats dashing on running guy on reaction is how you die lol, maybe preemptive but lol.

 

[Eldriken]

It says exactly nothing. Every dark seid player i've faced, i've been unable to whiff punish. Whether it's lag or whatever it's ridiculous. I don't have as much of a problem with deadshot players as darkseid. Seriously you're a mod, stop defending this shit.

Being a mod has ZERO bearing on our opinion of a character. That's very irrelevant.

Why do you think you should be able to whiff punish his Omega Beams from full screen after having to duck them? That would require an awfully fast move.

Stop sitting full screen if he puts you there. He can't threaten your MB roll like Deadshot can. Use it.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Being a mod has ZERO bearing on our opinion of a character. That's very irrelevant.

Why do you think you should be able to whiff punish his Omega Beams from full screen after having to duck them? That would require an awfully fast move.

Stop sitting full screen if he puts you there. He can't threaten your MB roll like Deadshot can. Use it.

You shouldn't have to use meter to defend it, he gains more from firing his lasers. Why would you defend this shit, it's stupid. Of course you should be able to force him to block as a counter zoner. Are you brainwashed?

 

[Eldriken]

You shouldn't have to use meter to defend it, he gains more from firing his lasers. Why would you defend this shit, it's stupid. Of course you should be able to force him to block as a counter zoner. Are you brainwashed?

Am I brainwashed? No. I am not.

It seems to me that you're simply allowing yourself to be defeated by his zoning because you're not adapting. Instead of doing just that, you're crying foul.

I've played other Harley players and they've dealt with it just fine. You don't have to use meter to get in on him. It was a suggestion to help your specific situation in case you hadn't tried doing so yet.

I don't see anyone else talking like this about his zoning. Not on the same scale as say Deadshot anyway.

There are ways around it and we're trying to explain that to you. Instead of listening to us, you continue to condescend us and complain. Make up your mind. If you want the help, put your salt aside for a few and look at what we're saying.

You can even add me on PSN and we can go into practice and I will help you out so you can see it for yourself.

 

[SaltShaker]

You guys are getting a small sample of what life is like on the other side.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Am I brainwashed? No. I am not.

It seems to me that you're simply allowing yourself to be defeated by his zoning because you're not adapting. Instead of doing just that, you're crying foul.

I've played other Harley players and they've dealt with it just fine. You don't have to use meter to get in on him. It was a suggestion to help your specific situation in case you hadn't tried doing so yet.

I don't see anyone else talking like this about his zoning. Not on the same scale as say Deadshot anyway.

There are ways around it and we're trying to explain that to you. Instead of listening to us, you continue to condescend us and complain. Make up your mind. If you want the help, put your salt aside for a few and look at what we're saying.

You can even add me on PSN and we can go into practice and I will help you out so you can see it for yourself.

Those harley players must have been significantly better than you, that's all i'm going to add to this...

 

[CrazyFingers]

Those harley players must have been significantly better than you, that's all i'm going to add to this...

or maybe, and this is just a hunch, you're bad?

EDIT: If you aren't willing to use your options that you have, you're not adding anything to the conversation and you're just complaining with no use behind it. Other, way better Harley players, have played the MU and handle it fine. If you can't, that's your problem, not Darkseid's.