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Match-Up Discussion - Kotal Kahn Kotal v Tremor at least 7-3?

What do you think?

  • 5-5 and best MU discussion I ever read

    Votes: 8 28.6%

  • 6-4 Kotal's favor and best MU discussion I ever read

    Votes: 11 39.3%

  • 6-4 Tremor's favor and best MU discussion I ever read

    Votes: 4 14.3%

  • 7-3 Kotal's favor and best MU discussion I ever read

    Votes: 2 7.1%

  • 7-3 Tremor's favor and best MU discussion I ever read

    Votes: 1 3.6%

  • 8-2 or worse in Kotal's favor and best MU discussion I ever read

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 8-2 or worse in Tremor's favor and best MU discussion I ever read

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • Total voters
    28
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Was playing a tremor at a NY local and it seemed like Kotal wins this MU. I played Sun God and the Tremor was either Metallic or Aftershock.

I personally feel his buttons in neutral are overall better than Tremor. Kotal's d4 is pretty good and as Sun God I get a deceptively ranged tick throw. The range and quickness (6f) really helps with beating Tremor's f1 and s2 which are a big part of his offense. Tremor's b1 (the spin slap) is 19f startup while Kotal's b1(the tick throw elbow) and f1 are 10f and 11f startup respectively.

If Kotal gets the life lead he can effectively outzone or at least win the long range battle. Sun ray makes Tremor change positioning. Ex Sun Disc hits for 16% which Tremor can't match and Kotal might be able to still block after it hits Tremor. If Kotal doesn't want to spend bar he can parry every single projectile Tremor does from afar. Tremor's moves are slow enough that you can react to anything he does, giving Kotal essentially free damage buffs.

As Sun God, I can also give myself a meter boost or a health boost at the cost of meter. Tremor stuff being slow also allows me to easily build sun charges. I don't play the other 2 variations but I assume Tremor's lack of effective mixups and slow projectiles make him easy to block and really capitalize on obsidian totem. I don't know much about how War God's variation specific stuff would affect the MU.

It just seems like Kotal counters everything Tremor could do. Which is why I think the MU is at least 7-3 in Kotal's favor. There doesn't seem to be much MU talk and this was one I recently experienced so I figured I'd stir up some discussion.

Some Kotal tags: @Qwark28 @AK L0rdoftheFLY @podizzler3000 @AoK Ryan @Doombawkz

@EGP Wonder_Chef (Idk if chef plays Kotal but he does play tremor and it seems like he's fluent in a bunch of characters)

Please tag any Tremors that may know the MU
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I can't speak personally to the MU as I haven't played it yet myself, but I dont think we should get too freaked out over the fkjr vs djt set.. One instance of a MU isn't enough to get a number off of.

Also, II know that MU discussion is supposed to always be considered at the highest level of play but that im itself will always introduce 'artifacts' into any data gathering.. Because at the highest level of play its possible to just get run over on.occasion regardless of the MU itself unless you're talking like.ultra bad, 8-2 stuff, but EVEN THEN you get weird results on occasion. Look at the Valle bs Bonchan match in SFIV from a while back. It's typically believed Hugo goes 3/7 or 2/8 vs Sagat and there is essentially.nothing he can really do but buy more time go die slowly.. But Valle WRECKED Bonchan in that set. A layman coming in to the game and watching that would think 'damn that big dude is op'. Sometimes in high level play one player.or the other just falls.into a rhythm of reads and baits and walks all.over his/her.opponent even in a terrible MU.

So that was needlessly long-winded, but, you get the idea. TL;DR - base results off numerous sets across multiple players before deciding conclusively one way or the other.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Scott The Scot said:
Yes it's Buffalo Brawl. Remember MIT doesn't play SG Kotal at the highest level and Tremor is DJT's main.
Click to expand...
You mean fkjr doesn't play Sun God at the highest level?

And yeah I know there are a few variables when to players fight each other. Just having some fun lol.

Prinz said:
Didn't look like FK Jr knew the mu too well though. Is he attending yomi?
Click to expand...
I've always believed that a majority of DJT's Tremor wins come from his opponent playing the MU wrong. That plus DJT is fundamentally more sound than the average player. At least around August. I haven't been watching as much as I used to.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Admittedly, my Kotal isn't much to write home about, but I actually had a lot of trouble in this MU the last time I played it.

Some of it was flaws on my part. I'm afraid of whiffing his air grab so I almost never use it outside of the 114 stuff. That's something I need to work on.

How do you all handle Tremor's oki game? Also, is MB SGC effective for interrupting pressure? I've had mixed results in this mu. Sometimes the grab will whiff and I get attacked and I'm not sure why

I'm new to grapple characters.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I've kind.of wanted to learn a little Tremor. Crystalline being the variation that interests me. Does Tremor have an acknowledged 'best' variation? It seems like.I see aftercock and crystalmeth the most?
 
Evil Canadian

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Premium Supporter
Kotal has a bit of an edge. Despite Tremors whizzbangs and whoozits at range, he actually isn't that scary of a zoning character.

That and at least for wargod, as far as my testing went Tremor has literally zero options to punish OH and Low sword, which means you can just throw that shit out willy nilly.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Rude said:
Admittedly, my Kotal isn't much to write home about, but I actually had a lot of trouble in this MU the last time I played it.

Some of it was flaws on my part. I'm afraid of whiffing his air grab so I almost never use it outside of the 114 stuff. That's something I need to work on.

How do you all handle Tremor's oki game? Also, is MB SGC effective for interrupting pressure? I've had mixed results in this mu. Sometimes the grab will whiff and I get attacked and I'm not sure why

I'm new to grapple characters.
Click to expand...
Well if they are grounded in hitstun then grabs will miss. But NRS has this thing where they give some moves grab immunity which allow some select normals to blow up command grabs. My rule of thumb is: If it launches, or is a string that my opponent would already generally use, it's grab immune. There are some other instances like Tremor's f2 (yes the horrible overhead), is grab immune.

As for handling Tremor's oki, I just block low first unless he did Rock Drop. In which case the overhead has to hit first. Other than that just be wary of throws. I find Tremor to be relatively straight forward on offense.

Get used to using df1 and ex df1. It's a wonderful anti air now. Though I did have some weird stuff happen when I fought a Takeda but that's probably on me. If you don't want to use df1 or just need to default to something, I get pretty good mileage out of d2 on jump ins and crossups.

Oh, and thanks everyone for voting this the best MU discussion you ever read. It really means a lot.
 
mattnin

mattnin

Noob
This match can go back and forth for Kotal especially when cornered but I think Kotal has the edge. The zone Kotal needs to be at to beat Tremor is basically at the max distance for jip1. It's here where Tremor doesn't have a whole lot of options but Kotal can jip1 into a full combo or f1b2 punish for a nice >35% easy combo.
 
oaoo94

oaoo94

Owner of HAZARDOUS Gaming
My Kotal Kahn is still pretty new and I can handle tremor pretty well with KK's footsies. The only thing I worry about is Tremor's Oki in the corner (I play Blood God btw) and getting out seems like a real hassle. I still think the MU is 6-4 Kotal. MAYBE 5-5.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Wait what? I'm a kotal? I'm more a tremor than anything.
Still if you wanna be patient I can grind out Kotal in the lab and maybe fish out some new tech.
 
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
This matchup is one of the best, IMO.

I also really like fighting against Predator in any variation.

I use SG.

Shame Goro isn't better. That would be another fun one if Goro were more viable.
 
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