Match-Up Discussion - Kobu Jutsu Kobu Jutsu MU chart

[Zoidberg747]

I'll probably get blown the fuck up for this but I want some damn discussion in these forums again lol.
Below is my opinion on a MU chart, ill star matchups I am not as sure about. I started doing every variation but im tired so im only doing overall atm:

Jason Slasher: 7-3
Jason Relentless: 7-3
Jason Unstoppable: 7-3
Kung Lao Tempest: 4-6
Kung Lao Buzzsaw: 4-6
*Kung Lao Hat Trick: 6-4
Jax Heavy weapons: 5-5
Jax Pumped Up: 6-4
Jax Wrestler: 5-5
Sonya Covert Ops: 5-5
*Sonya Special Forces: 5-5
*Sonya Demolition: 5-5
Kenshi Balanced: 7-3
*Kenshi Kenjutsu: 6-4
*Kenshi Possessed: 6-4
Kitana Royal Storm: 4-6
Kitana Mournful: 5-5
Kitana Assassin: 5-5
*Scorpion Inferno: 6-4
*Scorpion Hellfire: 6-4
*Scorpion Ninjutsu 6-4
Sub Zero Grandmaster: 6-4
Sub Zero Cryomancer: 6-4
*Sub Zero Unbreakable: 6-4
Mileena Piercing: 6-4
Mileena Ravenous: 6-4
*Mileena Ethereal: 5-5
Takeda Shirai Ryu: 6-4
Takeda Ronin: 6-4
Takeda Lasher: 6-4
Cassie Hollywood: 5-5
Cassie Spec Ops: 5-5
*Cassie Brawler: 6-4
Jacqui High Tech: 7-3
*Jacqui Shotgun: 6-4
Jacqui Full Auto: 6-4
*Kung Jin Shaolin: 4-6
Kung Jin Bojitsu: 5-5
Kung Jin Ancestral: 6-4
*Predator Warrior: 7-3
Predator Hunter: 6-4
Predator Hish Qu Ten: 6-4
Shinnok Necromancer: 6-4
Shinnok Bone Shaper: 4-6
Shinnok Impostor: 5-5
Kano Cybernetic: 5-5
Kano Cutthroat: 5-5
Kano Commando: 6-4
Johnny Cage A-List: 5-5
*Johnny Cage Stunt Double: 6-4
*Johnny Cage FIsticuffs: 6-4
Erron Black Outlaw: 6-4
Erron Black Marksman: 6-4
*Erron Black Gunslinger: 6-4
Liu Kang Dragon's Fire: 5-5
Liu Kang Flame Fist: 6-4
Liu Kang Dualist: 6-4
Ermac Master Of Souls: 6-4
*Ermac Mystic: 7-3
*Ermac Spectral: 7-3
Kotal Khan War God: 5-5
*Kotal Khan Blood God: 6-4
Kotal Khan Sun God: 6-4
Reptile Noxious: 6-4
Reptile Nimble: 6-4
*Reptile Deceptive: 5-5
*Ferra Torr Vicious: 6-4
*Ferra Torr Lackey: 6-4
*Ferra Torr Ruthless: 6-4
Dvorah Swarm Queen: 6-4
Dvorah Venomous: 6-4
Dvorah Brood Mother: 6-4
Raiden Thunder God: 6-4
Raiden Displacer: 6-4
Raiden Master of Storms: 6-4
Quan Chi Summoner: 6-4
Quan Chi Sorceror: 6-4
Quan Chi Warlock: 6-4
*Goro Kuatan Warrior: 6-4
*Goro Tigrar Fury: 6-4
*Goro Dragon Fangs: 7-3
Tremor Aftershock: 5-5
Tremor Crystalline: 5-5
Tremor Metallic: 6-4



Advantage: 63
Disadvantage: 5
Even: 19

Spoiler

 

[HoneyBee]

Fuck Tanya.

 

[Yoaks]

Tuck Fanya.

 

[Ninequads93]

Lasher might b a diff story in that matchup

His air whips just shit all over her teleports

 

[The Magician]

D'vorah is a 5-5. @HoneyBee

 

[juicepouch]

what's so bad for goro vs tanya?

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

she goes even with kit

 

[errormacro7]

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

lmao at goro he has no options

 

[Emperor Eevee]

I feel she goes even with Kitana and Lao. I actually have a tournament I'm going to today where there is a possibility that I'll play a good Lao so I may end up changing my decision after we player.

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

she may lose to lao she cant rekka at all if lao has meter

 

[The Magician]

she may lose to lao she cant rekka at all if lao has meter

That's with every character

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

That's with every character

hmm yes and no

 

[haketh]

I don't think Goro loses 7-3 to anymore after all of her frame data hits & his buffs. His footsies tools are to strong in this MU and well EX PW is EX PW.

 

[Rip Torn]

I doubt her MU chart is this good. She's pretty good in some MU's but she definitely struggles in many. Where is Tremor?

 

[Daemantalo]

Holy shit. In your opinion, with the optimal variation for a counterpick (I assume the variation would be either Cybernetic or Cutthroat), Kano goes 5-5 with Kobu Jutsu Tanya? If you or even anyone else could elaborate on why that's an even match-up for the both of them, I'd greatly appreciate it. I think it's really 6-4 Tanya, but I might be jumping the gun. I don't player her as much as I do Kano, admittedly.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Lasher might b a diff story in that matchup

His air whips just shit all over her teleports

Her teleports are irrelevant in the current meta. In fact I'd argue that Lasher is the worst for her because at least Shirai Ryu gets bigger punishes and Ronin has better offense.

what's so bad for goro vs tanya?

I forgot to put a star by that one because I never play against him. But after thinking about it I could see 6-4.

she goes even with kit

I really don't think so. I think Kitana outfootsies and outzones her bad enough and has the armored reversals to blow through her pressure. That plus her severely outdamaging Tanya make it a bad MU.

I feel she goes even with Kitana and Lao. I actually have a tournament I'm going to today where there is a possibility that I'll play a good Lao so I may end up changing my decision after we player.

KL is my most played MU at a high level and there is no doubt in my mind it is 6-4 him. He blows up most of her frame traps for 40%, same with delayed rekka pressure. He severely outdamages her, his j2 is incredibly hard for her to anti air consistently. He also can keep up with her in footsies and even after the nerfs his pressure is still hella good. Plus he can blow up her armor which just makes the MU harder.

That's with every character

But not every character gets 40% from the armored reversal. I would much rather taker Dvorahs ovi then be launched for a full combo. Plus most characters you can armor break the reversals with b2, but KLs is near impossible even on a read.

I doubt her MU chart is this good. She's pretty good in some MU's but she definitely struggles in many. Where is Tremor?

Id like to know what MU you think she struggles in. Good call on Tremor, i'll add him in.

Holy shit. In your opinion, with the optimal variation for a counterpick (I assume the variation would be either Cybernetic or Cutthroat), Kano goes 5-5 with Kobu Jutsu Tanya? If you or even anyone else could elaborate on why that's an even match-up for the both of them, I'd greatly appreciate it. I think it's really 6-4 Tanya, but I might be jumping the gun. I don't player her as much as I do Kano, admittedly.

I figured this would throw a lot of people. In my experience both can handle her pretty well. The main thing is having a 6f armored reversal which hurts her frametrap and rekka game a lot. Cybernetic can annoy her with knives which gives him the meter for those armored reversals. His pressure isnt that good but his damage actually isnt that bad if the Kano can do the EX ball combos. In cutthroat his knives are a non factor but he has even more damage and the 50/50s. I will admit I havent played cutthroat post-patch very much. Its one of those MUs where you would think its her favor, but all the Kanos i've played have held their own even after I studied the MU.

 

[Daemantalo]

I figured this would throw a lot of people. In my experience both can handle her pretty well. The main thing is having a 6f armored reversal which hurts her frametrap and rekka game a lot. Cybernetic can annoy her with knives which gives him the meter for those armored reversals. His pressure isnt that good but his damage actually isnt that bad if the Kano can do the EX ball combos. In cutthroat his knives are a non factor but he has even more damage and the 50/50s. I will admit I havent played cutthroat post-patch very much. Its one of those MUs where you would think its her favor, but all the Kanos i've played have held their own even after I studied the MU.

Yeah, Damage is definitely not the main issue with Kano (Cutthroat or Cybernetic.) I think this is a very fair assessment. The smart Kano would definitely throw his lot in with Cybernetic in this matchup. I was led to believe that Tanya's Rekka shenanigans (the pressure) didn't have a huge gap. I never knew I could Kano Ball out of it with armor. The more you know. Cutthroat Post-Patch isn't too hard to deal with either. The gameplan is more or less the same as before the patch.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Yeah, Damage is definitely not the main issue with Kano (Cutthroat or Cybernetic.) I think this is a very fair assessment. The smart Kano would definitely throw his lot in with Cybernetic in this matchup. I was led to believe that Tanya's Rekka shenanigans (the pressure) didn't have a huge gap. I never knew I could Kano Ball out of it with armor. The more you know. Cutthroat Post-Patch isn't too hard to deal with either. The gameplan is more or less the same as before the patch.

It doesnt have a gap if you dont delay it, but if she delays it you can armor through(delaying it is the only way to make it safe without spending a bar).

 

[Rip Torn]

Id like to know what MU you think she struggles in. Good call on Tremor, i'll add him in.

Kung Lao: 4-6
Sonya: 5-5
Kitana: 4-6
Sub Zero- 5-5
Mileena: 5-5
Cassie: 5-5
Kung Jin: 4-6
Predator: 5-5
Shinnok: 5-5
Kano: 5-5
Johnny Cage: 5-5
Liu Kang: 5-5
Tremor: 5-5

I highlighted the ones I think you should have made even at the least. Post patch Kung Lao isn't as bad... same with Cassie, because of the reversal option select being gone. They still are not very good for Tanya though. Liu Kang gets to stuff her wakeups now. A-list cage outpressures her and outfootsies her. Predator outzones and outfootsies her. Mileena is a bit safer now and can zone Tanya, gets good damage off interrupting rekkas, doesn't get trapped by ex tonfa toss. Sonya is just one big guessing game so 5-5. Sub Zero is difficult in general, but not impossible. She has answers for clone but there is a risk or meter involved. Kung Jin outfootsies her and has better mixups, while zoning him is a huge risk.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Kung Lao: 4-6
Sonya: 5-5
Kitana: 4-6
Sub Zero- 5-5
Mileena: 5-5
Cassie: 5-5
Kung Jin: 4-6
Predator: 5-5
Shinnok: 5-5
Kano: 5-5
Johnny Cage: 5-5
Liu Kang: 5-5
Tremor: 5-5

I highlighted the ones I think you should have made even at the least. Post patch Kung Lao isn't as bad... same with Cassie, because of the reversal option select being gone. They still are not very good for Tanya though. Liu Kang gets to stuff her wakeups now. A-list cage outpressures her and outfootsies her. Predator outzones and outfootsies her. Mileena is a bit safer now and can zone Tanya, gets good damage off interrupting rekkas, doesn't get trapped by ex tonfa toss. Sonya is just one big guessing game so 5-5. Sub Zero is difficult in general, but not impossible. She has answers for clone but there is a risk or meter involved. Kung Jin outfootsies her and has better mixups, while zoning him is a huge risk.

A lot of those I starred so I appreciate the input. I do disagree with a few though:

Predator: I think this definitely 6-4. He outzones her but all it takes is one EX tonfa to keep him honest. EX rekka blows through most of his run cancel pressure so he can't rely on that too much. Plus like Quan Chi when she knocks him down she essentially gets to go ham, f2 blows through his only wakeup. He might outfootsie her but not enough to make it 5-5.

Sub Zero: It's true that it takes meter to get out of most of his stuff, but thats why you save it all for that exact purpose. She can punish all of his clone setups with EX drill kick. She can punish his b2 no matter if he has clone out or not. I think one of sub zero's strength is his corner game but she can get out pretty easily with a well timed EX rekka or drill kick. She can still build enough meter in this MU that with smart management you should always have meter to mess him up. Ill give you that he does deal with her pressure pretty well.

Kung JIn: You might be right about Shaolin KJ as I only really play Ancestral and Bojitsu. For Bojitsu his mixups are all unsafe if you practice punishing the spin with EX drill kick. He has good footsies and stops her zoning but I dont find pressuring him to be very hard, especially because EX tonfa tends to work on him a lot. It might be a lot worse now that EX rekka is only one hit though, ill have to play it more.

Appreciate the discussion.

 

[WhoIsYams]

Fuck Tanya.

I got Dragon'd at SJ too lol. Fuck B1

 

[Youphemism]

I figured this would throw a lot of people. In my experience both can handle her pretty well. The main thing is having a 6f armored reversal which hurts her frametrap and rekka game a lot. Cybernetic can annoy her with knives which gives him the meter for those armored reversals. His pressure isnt that good but his damage actually isnt that bad if the Kano can do the EX ball combos. In cutthroat his knives are a non factor but he has even more damage and the 50/50s. I will admit I havent played cutthroat post-patch very much. Its one of those MUs where you would think its her favor, but all the Kanos i've played have held their own even after I studied the MU.

Well you say 6f but it can be very inconsistent, depending on the distance from the opponent as well as if Kano blocked the move standing or ducking (which is stupid). Cybernetics shouldn't be doing EX Ball combos unless it's from having just armoured through a move, 2+4MB combos do more damage most of the time.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Well you say 6f but it can be very inconsistent, depending on the distance from the opponent as well as if Kano blocked the move standing or ducking (which is stupid). Cybernetics shouldn't be doing EX Ball combos unless it's from having just armoured through a move, 2+4MB combos do more damage most of the time.

When he punishes the first rekka frametrap he is right next to her. I was referring to armoring through her pressure for the full combo.

 

[KIllaByte]

You need to go by variation.