teh_kingdunch
Mortal
I'd rather let him teleport and dash punish or mb b3 it. If KF has life lead it might be worth it to keep him away and force mistakes, but otherwise I wanna be in his face, doesn't matter if I go or he comes to me.
I'd rather let him teleport and dash punish or mb b3 it. If KF has life lead it might be worth it to keep him away and force mistakes, but otherwise I wanna be in his face, doesn't matter if I go or he comes to me.
wait why am i seeing doomsday?
Just the comment. Like, as of right now, I feel that Frost has a 6-4 in her favor versus Lex, but we have some newly discovered corner tech against him (inescapable reset), and his hit large hitbox makes certain instant overhead set-ups viable also, so I'm wondering if it could get as bad as 7-3 (or if it just solidifies my opinion that it's 6-4).
Eh, I don't think she beats Lex that bad. I would rather fight a lot of chars besides Lex to be honest. I don't think she loses to Bane or Superman, I think those are probably even or slight advantage Frost if anything.
I also have inescapble resets vs frost l0l0l
Lex is my most confident match-up by a mile. And Superman is one of those match-ups I know is skewed for me - I have zero offline experience versus Supes, so I have this online bias where certain things are just too good. I think offline it's easier to be perfect versus him and WoWo. Bane is just my kryptonite atm, on paper I don't see how I lose so bad to him, but in an actual match he obliterates me. Online could be adding to that as well.
I think KDZ's opinion mirrors mine: the match-up is only even by the most conservative estimates. Otherwise Supes has the advantage. It's even at the highest levels of play, hence my sidenote, but it's easier for Frost to fuck up than it is for Supes.
That's nice, but how is that relevant? I'm not denying that Lex can hurt Frost if he touches her, or saying that his momentum isn't godlike, cus it is. My point is that Frost already has an advantage strategically. Our zoning tools feel designed to piss off Lex in particular. Parry's a pain in the ass too. Adding the Lex specific tech just rubs salt in an already open wound, which is why I wonder if it could one day mean something worse than a 4-6.
My perspective is that zoning Lex out isn't about doing stuff to him per se. It's about keeping him in check while Frost builds meter. When Lex eventually does charge his trait, Frost should have meter to work with to mitigate his options up close. Meter means meterburnable tools, it means a clash advantage, it means pushblock. Intelligent use of all that seems like it would help considerably against Lex's momentum when he finally does get close.
So much for Joker being "top 10."
I don't agree with those. I think our MU chart is spot on and Ribbz is doing a good job keeping it updated. I can only think of some changes, like Raven, Zatanna and possibly GA being 5-5. Shazam could be 7-3. Sure some MUs can change over time, but that's how a feel for the moment.
I don't think Shazam is a 7-3, def Frost advantage though. Daggers give him problems. He has to take risks to get in without eating huge projectile damage into iceberg checks. Once he gets in we have meter which is a problem for him since it gives us a full tool set. I think her anti-air makes getting in even more of a chore for him and a lot of Shazam's I play get frustrated and try to b2 overhead from max range to get in or jump. If you are ready/prepared for both options you can beat them out on reaction. What sucks is that the meterless vortex is not very effective against him since teleport got buffed (to what it should have been to start with). I think Zatanna could be even I don't have enough exp. I still think Raven and GA are advantage Frost. What does Raven have that really worries us if she doesn't have trait activated. She is a good character don't get me wrong, but the only time I really feel at risk is when she has trait. Otherwise, just be patient, don't jump, punish SC with iceberg into vortex from nearly anywhere on the screen. Once you have a knockdown the oki game is heavy in Frost's favor. Just my opinion.
Like you said, it's hard for Shazam to get in and he risks eating dmg or mb iceberg into vortex. Also he is so unsafe on almost everything (torpedo, both grabs, b2) and KF's punishes hurt and lead to a vortex. There is no need to use the meterless vortex, we always have enough meter for mb freeze, cuz of all those daggers. We have an amazing WU as well, he can't start his oki game without a risk. He doesn't have much going for him. Looking at other 6-4s we have, vs Shazam it does feel a lot easier. Vs Zatanna and GA I don't have much exp, I just feel like they can be even from what I've seen, but I'll leave them aside for now. The thing with Raven is, she can be in trait almost all the time, but KF can stay on her and not give her a room to breath. Pillars are scary and full screen grab as well, but she can't spam them cuz of iceberg. She is definitely free on knockdown if not in trait, all her WUs are easily stuffed by f2 xx slide.
Yeah she can't really just spam away in trait because one whiff can lead to a slide punish so she has to at least respect slide's range. You really have to hold down a lot during this match I find, I feel like you need to wade through the zoning for an opportunity, punish errant SC's, d2 jump ins & teleports in trait into vortex and oki. From full screen I like to tap trait in this matchup a little more than some other ones just because it might lead to the Raven player tossing out a SC for a punish.
You should just be able to D2, no? I would go in the lab and record her doing a low air dash into a string and see if d2 beats it or trades.
Yeah i haven't tested it yet because i'm at school. But i played a long set with Anton and got blownup because i felt like i couldn't knock her out the air
I will post a video soon.
No point in mastering it, imo. He has at least 3 different wake-up timing's and that certainly doesn't cover all them. We have to be very disciplined and precise with our combos to set-up the j1/j3 wake-up push punishes, imo. That'll be a big part of mastering this match-up in the future.
