Khameleon Pre-Release Discussion Thread

[Ptehu]

And that's exactly why her movestet will be all based on the time cycle I believe, as she would be waaay too op if it was the other way

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

I'm calling it, Khameleon is competitively trash if they don't make her variation cycle controllable like Tremor.
Just like we don't see Shujinko in Top 8 we won't see Khameleon.
So she's essentially just a fans casuals tool for fun. Which is cool for Stan's and Casuals but sucks for tournaments and KL
She can change variation faster than the timer on end of moves but they confirmed it's always random and no way to control who she changes into.
Not even a set variation rotation cycle like 3seconds Kitana, Jade, Mileena it's completely FN Random!!?

 

[Kiss the Missile]

The random is what kills it. Before anyone says it, yes thats how the CKhameleon characters worked in Trilogy, but that doesn't make it a good choice here. Hit confirming is going to be extremely difficult with Kham.

You need to be paying attention to your current cycle, while playing neutral, while paying attention to resources and then boom you get your hit, you hit the kameo to get Mileena's launch, whoops she switched to Kitana and did the fan toss knockdown. So your 47% combo turned into a 16% combo because "lol N64"

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Khameleon being a time-cycle kameo is already bad enough. Her being on a random time-cycle is just... astonishing, mind-blowingly dumb. At this point I have to ask if they ever actually even played their own game for an hour or so, just to get a fucking grip on just how INSANELY idiotic this decision is.

Tremor is expensive as fuck for some pretty mild things, but at least you get to choose exactly when to use what (even if through somewhat clunky mechanics).

Shujinko is extremely match-up dependent, and also has some clunky charge mechanics, but he has the base punches and kicks and no randomization at all.

Khameleon? It's like you want to use low hat with kung lao, but now you must first wait for the spin to cycle into another move - which just might be teleport afterall And now the plus frames/low mixup you needed didn't come and you are unsafe and/or eating a 30% combo. At best, you just stayed in neutral without throwing anything risky, but this gave your opponent an edge.

At this point, why even bother?

 

[NoCharge]

They should've just made it so when you use one of the two specific moves she switches to the next charater until you use one of the next two moves. Making her so random will most likely rarely pe picked ever, let alone in tournament play.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Really starting to regret buying KP1. At this point, the only thing I'm going to end up liking is Ermac, and that's still a big maybe.

 

[Jynks]

The random is what kills it.

Except it is not random, not entirely. This is not a WoWo type thing, it is a cycle that you can actually control. All you need to do is lab the starter, and then lab 2 variants to use mid kombo. It is a more complex kameo to use, but that is exactly what fighting games should have... some characters should be harder to use than others. Some people are being needlessly down on the kameo, but I suspect it will not be nearly as bad as people think.

I will not know until I lab, but there is every chance that no matter what you use the links will work, just have a different result. So string / combo into kameo will work no matter which one you call. We just don't know yet.

Still, it seems obvious to me that all you need to do is lab 2 variants from a kameo call to use this effectively for big damage. It really is not that a problem.

 

[Jynks]

I wonder how sindel kameo moves will work on her... like will the speed up thing make them cycle faster? If you take control, are they still cyceling?

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Only way I can see Khameleon being useful, tournament wise, is if her moves recharge as fast as the single Sareena knife toss, OR if they somehow recharge instantly after a time-cycle is complete - though that might actually be broke and terribly exploitable with some characters with long combos

Edit: Or, of course, make her have a similar mechanic to Tremor.
Edit 2: GOOD FUCKING NEWS, according to the match footage from the last snipped of kombat kast, her moves DO recharge fast!

 

[PrinceGoro]

the random switching is khamelons identiy from past games,i get that but still in this case as a kameo it just feels like the wrong move.

a very easy and simple solution to this kameo could have been this:

1.)the neutral single press kameo is the damage reduction shield
2.)make the three directional buttons each correspond to one of the female ninjas(back-mileena,forward-kitana,down-jade)
3.single press kameo+direction executes the ambush attack of the corresponding ninja,hold kameo button+plus a direction executes the summon attack of the corresponding ninja.

And there it is you got all the moves covered 2 for each ninja plus the damage shield,she is still unique in terms of what she brings to the table allowing you to mix and match all these moves together as you see fit,and she preserves her identity of being a mish mash of the female ninjas,while at the same time giving full control and maximum competative utility to the player.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Except it is not random, not entirely. This is not a WoWo type thing, it is a cycle that you can actually control. All you need to do is lab the starter, and then lab 2 variants to use mid kombo. It is a more complex kameo to use, but that is exactly what fighting games should have... some characters should be harder to use than others. Some people are being needlessly down on the kameo, but I suspect it will not be nearly as bad as people think.

I will not know until I lab, but there is every chance that no matter what you use the links will work, just have a different result. So string / combo into kameo will work no matter which one you call. We just don't know yet.

Still, it seems obvious to me that all you need to do is lab 2 variants from a kameo call to use this effectively for big damage. It really is not that a problem.

Would be fine, except her ambushes and summons do entirely different things. Like I said in my other post, you try to use Mileena's summon, you get Kitana's instant knockdown summon. You try to get Kitana's SuperJump, and then Mileena tosses Sai's right above your opponent's head.

And that doesn't even take into consideration the timer. Sure you can lab the hit all day long in training mode, but you can't lab that for an actual match when you have zero idea when you're actually going to land a hit.

Khameleon puts mental stack on YOU more than she does your opponent. Thats a trash Kameo imo, when I can just grab a Kameo thats actually consistent. But yeah, this is all just theory fighting. Maybe somebody will make her into a monster, but I'm not really seeing it at the moment.

 

[The Ultimate]

I'm very intrigued on what characters can make Khameleon work. There's some tools that she has that I think could be really good on some characters, we'll have to see how it works. As a kameo, she has Sonya square wave, Sareena double sickle toss, Sub-Zero ice-armor(but better), Jacqui's bionic leap(at ambush speed), and a launcher and projectile on top of that. On paper, these all sound like great tools that a lot of characters can benefit from. The stances switching at set/random intervals does sound problematic, but I'm still interested.

 

[Juggs]

In the past, iirc, Khameleon would change colors over time. And depending what color they were, that’s what specials they had. That very well could be how she is in this game. Idk how that’d work as a Kameo though since you don’t see her constantly. I just hope it isn’t like a cycling thing. Where you start with a Mileena Kameo move, and then it goes into the next female Ninja which would be for instance a Kitana Kameo move. That’d he even worse than the cycle mechanic that Tremor has (which I’m not a fan of).

I was pretty close on with how Khameleon works in this game.

Unfortunately, I already know I’m not going to be a fan. As soon as I saw the demonstration, I immediately sai’d. Seriously, my first impression is that she kinda glows.

 

[The Hex Man]

Except it is not random, not entirely. This is not a WoWo type thing, it is a cycle that you can actually control. All you need to do is lab the starter, and then lab 2 variants to use mid kombo. It is a more complex kameo to use, but that is exactly what fighting games should have... some characters should be harder to use than others. Some people are being needlessly down on the kameo, but I suspect it will not be nearly as bad as people think.

I will not know until I lab, but there is every chance that no matter what you use the links will work, just have a different result. So string / combo into kameo will work no matter which one you call. We just don't know yet.

Still, it seems obvious to me that all you need to do is lab 2 variants from a kameo call to use this effectively for big damage. It really is not that a problem.

Like fr. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[popmaster501]

ITT: People who don't know how to have fun

 

[chud_munson]

IMO, the only way the randomness works is if each color option is totally game breakingly great. Like, it's a cue to your opponent "you're about to have a bad time, but you know what kind of bad time you're about to have". Then as the kameo user you can use that expectation to play mind games. If they're just normal-tier tools that other kameos already have, I don't see any reason at all to use her.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Noticing which mode she's in before you hit the button doesn't seem any more demanding than checking bars or health before going for an expensive route, etc. Also chances are when manually switching it resets the timer, so I don't think she'll be randomly switching on us unexpectedly.
Doesn't seem like that big of a deal imo.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Noticing which mode she's in before you hit the button doesn't seem any more demanding than checking bars or health before going for an expensive route, etc. Also chances are when manually switching it resets the timer, so I don't think she'll be randomly switching on us unexpectedly.
Doesn't seem like that big of a deal imo.

Looking up and noticing, no, not an issue. But mentally comparing how much time she's been in that mode while also trying to hitconfirm is.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Lets hope there's some kind of grace period while connecting attacks or something that prevents her from changing, but otherwise we'll have to just wait and see.
Would be nice if she'd release in the same month...

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Except it is not random, not entirely. This is not a WoWo type thing, it is a cycle that you can actually control.

From what Stephanie Brownback said it's completely random, you can force it to switch not on it's (assuming 5second auto change timer) but she said even then it's random, you can't choose to go from Kitana to Mileena specifically. So you do a strong and after doing the string you can force change but if you can't choose which like Tremor I don't understand how that's a risk worth taking.
I want to know I'm gonna have Jade next to use Glaives or Kitana to lift character to jump cancel into a better combo/position and cut off bad advantage.
Her moves seem strong as hell but there are some you just don't want to come out and I want to have one every time Its my turn.
I'm sure someone can get so used to looking at color of var and be familiar with the options and go on the fly, but you either have to instantly do it on end of strings without hit confirming or save it for next turn and hope the timer doesn't switch it automatically.
I just wish they did it both ways, make it auto change like Trilogy but also allow Tremor like control of manually switching as well. Maybe D+R1 for cycle down, R1 for cycle up. It would still be different than Tremor as being after a move and not before one and variation change/call up acting like an Ambush which Tremor does.
But it looks like you can't call the change of variation until the end of a string and can't jump to X variation it's just a dice roll?
I won't say no one will make it work but I will say most won't take that risk.

Only way I can see Khameleon being useful, tournament wise, is if her moves recharge as fast as the single Sareena knife toss, OR if they somehow recharge instantly after a time-cycle is complete - though that might actually be broke and terribly exploitable with some characters with long combos

Edit: Or, of course, make her have a similar mechanic to Tremor.
Edit 2: GOOD FUCKING NEWS, according to the match footage from the last snipped of kombat kast, her moves DO recharge fast!

My only concern is having no manual control or set cycle of what variation comes next and being limited to force changing to a random variation only after doing a string.
I was afraid they would actually make it random.
Foxy did a stream and said as much. He is going to stream tomorrow on Twitch to show all the dirt he can find with Quan Chi because he looks like a scary zoner and a trap artist with 50/50's that launch. And that EX nether portal that changes his projectiles gravity pushes them back preventing forward advancing or jump ins and that can be used in the corner to lock down the opponents options!
Muah hah ha HA

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Ok Stephanies exact words on Khameleon where:
"The trick is you don't get to choose, it's totally random"
"It's based on a timer or you deciding when it cycles, but you never get to pick, you'll never get the same move twice in a row, but it will always be one of the 3"

 

[josephf5]

I knew she was going to be random as soon as I saw she had Sareena’s back Kameo AND Sub-Zero’s projectile immunity. There was no way they were going to give you both of those things with no catch.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Also without the addition of character specific training options, labbing Khameleon is going to be a nightmare.

 

[Jynks]

What do you mean? You can lab either 1st or 2nd player to be who ever you want already?

 

[Plop]

With both of the DLC kameos so far being "big brained" kameos, it's got me thinking about the likes of Mavado. Surely he's gonna be bland and overly simple in comparison to Khameleon and Tremor?