Khameleon Pre-Release Discussion Thread

[Felipe_Gewehr]

So, now that we have seen little bits of Khameleon, I thought we might as well start discussing it. First of all, Khameleon looks amazing. Her moves seem to be AT LEAST 1 ambush and 1 summon for each of the three classic female ninjas:

Kitana:
Ambush: Some kind of fan lift to your character mid combo (quite strange, not sure what is it's function)
Summon: Fan toss (seems to function like base game Lao's buzzsaw hat, might extend combos in the corner or juggle in the air).
EDIT: It seems the fan toss is a summon, and fan lift is the ambush.

Mileena:
Summon: Ball-roll (looks similar to EX ball roll in MKX, might be an overhead).
Ambush: air sais (juggles in the air, functions kinda like Sonya's ambush).
Edit: Mileena's summon is Ball-roll.

Jade:
Summon: Razorang (functionally identical to Sareena's knives, unless they make it a mid)
Ambush: Purple glow (projectile immunity, functions like it did in past games).

Interestingly, she has multiple throw animations, depending on what color she is displaying.
So far, it SEEMS she doesnt need full bar for her things, as Quan Chi used both purple glow and the razorang in the same span of time, which is excellent news.

However, I feel like she might just keep changing colors regardless of the players input, and it would be up to us to decide only when to use her current powers. Might make an interesting gameplay situations where you would refrain from using her assists until she changes to the colors you want.

 

[Juggs]

In the past, iirc, Khameleon would change colors over time. And depending what color they were, that’s what specials they had. That very well could be how she is in this game. Idk how that’d work as a Kameo though since you don’t see her constantly. I just hope it isn’t like a cycling thing. Where you start with a Mileena Kameo move, and then it goes into the next female Ninja which would be for instance a Kitana Kameo move. That’d he even worse than the cycle mechanic that Tremor has (which I’m not a fan of).

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

In the past, iirc, Khameleon would change colors over time. And depending what color they were, that’s what specials they had. That very well could be how she is in this game. Idk how that’d work as a Kameo though since you don’t see her constantly. I just hope it isn’t like a cycling thing. Where you start with a Mileena Kameo move, and then it goes into the next female Ninja which would be for instance a Kitana Kameo move. That’d he even worse than the cycle mechanic that Tremor has (which I’m not a fan of).

Im hoping she either has a time cycle, or that you can perhaps switch variations on the fly. Remember, Shujinko has more than 5 assist buttons IIRC, so maybe she will as well? Like do D,F, Kameo for Mileena's Ambush, D,B Kameo for her summon, FKameo and Back Kameo for Jade, and maybe D Kameo, Up Kameo for Kitana.

 

[Arqwart]

Her having a time cycle would make sense but be a nightmare to passively micromanage mentally. I hope if they do commit to the time cycle that they also give the ability to forcibly shift her to the next ninja so there's more interaction between the player and their kameo setup.

 

[Benlo]

Well, I would kinda like a timed cycle

Dunno, I like the idea to adapt my attacks for each sub-variation.

 

[zerosebaz]

Kinda sad Tanya and Scarlett are not there.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Kinda sad Tanya and Scarlett are not there.

I was thinking the same thing. I thought we might be having some powers from them as well

 

[The Ultimate]

My gut reaction to seeing her in the trailer is "she's a better Tremor", cause she has a similar stance mechanic like Tremor, only we won't know how the switching works.

Early in the trailer, during the Quan Chi vs Sub-Zero part, we see her do the Mileena air sai, but in the exit animation, she briefly turns gray before changing into Jade stance. However, we then see her do two Jade moves back to back, without that stance/color switching happening during the exit animation. We also see the stance/color change during the intro to her throw. So, you can either manually change her stance during the exit animation & startup to her throw, or her stance randomly switches after landing kameo moves/throws.

If you can manually switch her stance, then she'll be a better Tremor. If her stances are random, then that will make her trickier to use; sort of like Tira and Eyedol's random stance switching in Soul Calibur 5/6 and KI, respectively.

 

[BarakaTile]

I think the Kitana Fan Lift lifts you rather than your opponent.

 

[josephf5]

I can’t see her working the same way as Tremor, because it would be weird for them to give two Kameos in a row the exact same gimmick. So I do think she’s going to work the way she did in MK Trilogy, where she changes colors randomly and her moves are dependent on what color she is at the moment. Which sucks, because I don’t think she’s going to be very good, if that’s the case. I think it’s important to have access to the moves you need when you need them. If it’s random, it’s going to make her unreliable.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

I think you can change her variation at will. Just gotta see how it works.
Tremor changes variation before move is used but she seems to change variation after you use her move. So do her Jade move and she goes greyish at end then can turn to any of them on command.
I don't think they are stupid enough to make her random.
But it's possible you can just do all the moves without variation just might be weird inputs.
Maybe B+R1 or F+R1 and R1 for Jade, D+R1 and U+R1 for Kitana and DF+R1 or DB+R1 for Mileena
There is theoretically enough inputs for it even if they all have 3 moves each.

 

[Ptehu]

Time cycle would be awesome and very 'in character' for her as a throwback, I'm all for it.

Its surprising for me but I ended up liking her after the trailer.
I never liked and cared much about move stealers and half-ass characters like this triborg abomination, but in her case all makes sense lore-wise. She is a zaterran and she probably spent many years alongside Kitana, Mileena and Jade so she learnt their moves and can incorporate it in fighting. Plus she is from OG period of the series eventhough she was only console exclusive and I like OG characters.

Overall, she might be tricky to use but I wouldn't place her in the Shujinko tier yet.

The only thing I dont understand is why they delay her to January. Strange business decision.

 

[josephf5]

I don't think they are stupid enough to make her random.

That’s how she originally was.

 

[NoCharge]

I dont think she'll have variations like tremor. Probably will change variaton every couple of seconds on her own or cycle though specials one after another in pairs. Judging from the trailer I would say its the first variant.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

I hope there is a way to force her to switch to whatever we want, her being timed, while definitely an interesting choice, will instantly make her an unorthodox pick that might not work out that well. I dont want to have to wait 5 seconds to activate the purple glow, by the time this happens, my opponent has already zoned me with lao hats and whatever and the purple glow is not useful at the current moment. Same with the Kitana specials: so far I dont see why I'd want the fan toss over the razorang.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

That’s how she originally was.

I'm aware just think if it's that way it will be less than useable. Imagine needing Glow or Kitana lift and can't get to it.
Has to be some control of it or it's a casual Kameo and Boon said she is the most Krazy Kameo made yet which I interpreted as strongest.

 

[Arqwart]

@Felipe_Gewehr on the topic of the Kitana ambush (Fan Lift), I think this will be an interesting combo tool. Many characters have launching moves that they either dont recover from to combo off naturally and/or they launch the opponent too far away to combo after midscreen. These situations are almost always complemented by Scorpion or Goro kameo now to turn them into full combo confirms. We may see another variant on big juggle confirms via Fan Lift. She could also end up being a meterless version of the D2 meterburn cancel.

Also curious how it may play out for pressure. Per the trailer, Fan Lift is VERY fast as an ambush. It looks like it'll effectively make everything jump cancelable by using it. High committal string that's death on block? Lift out during block. Adding layers of mixup as Nitara? Lift into aerial shenanigans. Just want to get back to full screen as Kitana? Block string into Lift and square wave once over their heads.

 

[Second Saint]

@Felipe_Gewehr on the topic of the Kitana ambush (Fan Lift), I think this will be an interesting combo tool. Many characters have launching moves that they either dont recover from to combo off naturally and/or they launch the opponent too far away to combo after midscreen. These situations are almost always complemented by Scorpion or Goro kameo now to turn them into full combo confirms. We may see another variant on big juggle confirms via Fan Lift. She could also end up being a meterless version of the D2 meterburn cancel.

Also curious how it may play out for pressure. Per the trailer, Fan Lift is VERY fast as an ambush. It looks like it'll effectively make everything jump cancelable by using it. High committal string that's death on block? Lift out during block. Adding layers of mixup as Nitara? Lift into aerial shenanigans. Just want to get back to full screen as Kitana? Block string into Lift and square wave once over their heads.

Thank you for already writing the stuff I came to say. Jump cancels could be huge in this game for a lot of characters. First thing I thought of was Ashrah's Light projectile into lift while it's still traveling would likely net you a combo on hit or jump-in vs empty jump throw mix on block

 

[Eji1700]

Be interesting if she rotated through moves and the different directions determined which "version" you summon. So neutral is mileena, down is kitana, forward is jade or something like that.

Each time you call them they swap to the next move in their arsenal. Not technically random like she used to be but does require some knowledge to control properly.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Talks about Kameleon half way through

 

[xenogorgeous]

yep, Khameleon looks like a mistery already

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that , as they did with Omni Man and Tremor, we will have a Kombat Kat, where they will breakdown Quan Chi and Khameleon , in the next week, before the December 14th

This way , this subject question regarding Khameleon gameplay and how her movest works will be totally explained

 

[josephf5]

I'm aware just think if it's that way it will be less than useable. Imagine needing Glow or Kitana lift and can't get to it.
Has to be some control of it or it's a casual Kameo and Boon said she is the most Krazy Kameo made yet which I interpreted as strongest.

She has to have some downside. She has Sub-Zero’s projectile immunity, plus Sareena’s back Kameo, plus other projectiles and combo extenders. Why would you ever use Sub-Zero Kameo over her if she can do the glow whenever she wants plus all that other cool stuff? I think the drawback is going to be that, while she has access to all these cool things, she can only do certain things at certain times.

 

[BarakaTile]

She has to have some downside. She has Sub-Zero’s projectile immunity, plus Sareena’s back Kameo, plus other projectiles and combo extenders. Why would you ever use Sub-Zero Kameo over her if she can do the glow whenever she wants plus all that other cool stuff? I think the drawback is going to be that, while she has access to all these cool things, she can only do certain things at certain times.

I'd rather have control over what she does so we get another great Kameo everybody in the roster can use than have no control because "She has to have a downside" and it's just another Tremor situation but made worse because all of her moves are held back by a constantly shifting timer.

At that point why would you ever use her at all?

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

She has to have some downside. She has Sub-Zero’s projectile immunity, plus Sareena’s back Kameo, plus other projectiles and combo extenders. Why would you ever use Sub-Zero Kameo over her if she can do the glow whenever she wants plus all that other cool stuff? I think the drawback is going to be that, while she has access to all these cool things, she can only do certain things at certain times.

There are legit uses for Sub Kameo, ice shield being one, Mid safe shoulder closing Armor gap, Freeze allowing combos you normally can't do, Setplay like HTB setups with Rain doing a 108 frame startup water beam to do the HTB or throw into pool setup, and other characters get to do several long moves normally not possible like Geras getting 3 stacks and combo or Tanya Stacks or Ashrah charges who knows if Quan has Skull stacks. But I'm willing to bet some moves beat Subs Ice Shield (Reiko Cough) while some different moves might beat Glow, and the cost may be different and the time for Regen may be different as well. We don't know if it takes a long time to come back it may have a 15+ second cooldown on Glow after first use and may not last as long.

But I'll go on the record and say if Kameleon's 3 variations are completely random it won't be very viable competitively. Stans and fans may use it for fun online which is cool like Shujinko but won't see many tournaments. I'm not the only one saying this, The Condiment Twin's believe this as well.
I know I wouldn't use a random Kameo move if I had no control over what was next if money was on the line or tournament placement or Pro Tour Qualifying Points?

I'm not understanding why you would want it to be random. I honestly don't want it to be like Tremors because that's a bit complicated for a lot of players, even though I do well with Tremor I know most Kameleon Fans won't and I want them to have fun and competitive players to have a strong Kameo that helps lower tiers be strong but not give the same utility Lao hat gives so characters like Johnny won't use it against low tiers,
I want it to be Inputs for each move which is definitely possible, intuitive and functional. It could be 4 different directional inputs with some requiring Hold and some Tap.

 

[josephf5]

If she can use all of her moves all the time, I think Kenshi will be the only one that still uses Sub, because he also uses the freeze to set up Sento. Everyone else just uses Sub for the ice shield, and Khameleon’s glow seems to serve the same purpose as that. Plus her boomerang move looks similar to Sareena’s back Kameo. So it’s like getting Sareena with Sub’s projectile immunity.