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General/Other - Cutthroat Kano's Cutthroat Variation Discussion Thread

ando1184

Noob
I agree. If you want to play him don't let others usage stop you.

It definitely isn't gimmicks though. Like you said, optimal timing =|= gimmick. Now we're starting to explore when to use the armor on EX to set up pressure. I'm testing ways to use the armor to blow up single hitting WU's in the corner into pressure/50-60% damage.

It's only the beginning. Cutt may be going places.
Speaking of armoring through stuff with ex buff, can someone test doing an ex buff after knocking down Tanya. I have a really good Tanya player in my scene and whenever I knock em down and am over him, he ex teleports. I don't have Tanya otherwise I'd test it myself, but I was wondering if we could ex buff and then recover fast enough to at least d2 her or something?
 

NHDR

Noob
Cutthroat more practical than cybernetic? Called it! Even though I suck at this game the meta seemed very obvious to me from day one.

I still like Cyber, Cutt just feels more "grounded" to me. More damage, great F21, knives still serve a purpose, oki kano ball setups, and so forth.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Speaking of armoring through stuff with ex buff, can someone test doing an ex buff after knocking down Tanya. I have a really good Tanya player in my scene and whenever I knock em down and am over him, he ex teleports. I don't have Tanya otherwise I'd test it myself, but I was wondering if we could ex buff and then recover fast enough to at least d2 her or something?
This would be good stuff. I'll check it out later against all her EX WU's.

Also, unless you're prepared to use armor or block, pressuring Tanya on WU is death if she has a bar vs exp against her. Top 3 WU game easy she has.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Speaking of armoring through stuff with ex buff, can someone test doing an ex buff after knocking down Tanya. I have a really good Tanya player in my scene and whenever I knock em down and am over him, he ex teleports. I don't have Tanya otherwise I'd test it myself, but I was wondering if we could ex buff and then recover fast enough to at least d2 her or something?
Nah nope. Just did some testing on it and no matter the distance, if you EX Buff her Ex Tele you'll absorb the hit but the Jip will hit you before you even have time to block. Barely can pressure her on knockdown.
 

ando1184

Noob
Nah nope. Just did some testing on it and no matter the distance, if you EX Buff her Ex Tele you'll absorb the hit but the Jip will hit you before you even have time to block. Barely can pressure her on knockdown.
Well the is for checking :( I'm crying on the inside
 

Notez4

Noob
I was playing against my erron black training partner and I noticed that he couldn't duck the knife throw after f21. It's this character specific or is it a true block string? Erron has little to no options after a blocked knife. I would check myself but I don't have the game in front of me at the moment
 

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
I have a real killer habit of dialing up Blade slice/B312/F212, and I can't stop it, because when I get into live matches, it just keeps happening
 
So what are you guys having good luck with right after a back dash?

I am working on the mid screen game where I am cutthroat weak. In the corner = they are dead. But mid screen is in need of great improvement. I am trying to learn to take advantage of the back dash invulnerability, but it seems to have a long reset. Like to hear how others follow it up.

I have also been opening with back dash more. Had been opening a lot with 212, but as I play better and better players that gets blown up most of the time, so looking to open with the back dash more. Having good luck with the jump back then Kanoball, but that can be predictable. Right now I am only having luck with back dash then kanoball forward when they come out aggressive and whiff.
 
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CanadianBaconX

Let's see how long this lasts...
Up ball during a juggle seems to quick stand so I was fiddling around with it in training mode in combination with the EX Buff combo and it's kinda weird. I haven't had a chance to use it much in an actual match so see how it goes but, does it really make it any harder for people to wake up? Or is this something that'll work once?

Oh also B12 xx EX Buff is safe on block (tested with Tempest Spin and Cassie Flipkick) which is good if they TRY to punish it and you get to punish them.

 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Up ball during a juggle seems to quick stand so I was fiddling around with it in training mode in combination with the EX Buff combo and it's kinda weird. I haven't had a chance to use it much in an actual match so see how it goes but, does it really make it any harder for people to wake up? Or is this something that'll work once?

Oh also B12 xx EX Buff is safe on block (tested with Tempest Spin and Cassie Flipkick) which is good if they TRY to punish it and you get to punish them.

Yeah Up Ball being a quick stand is already known (at least I'm pretty sure other people know about it, if not then wedabesssssssssss). Haven't really mixed it with EX Buff yet but that's because noone expects the quick stand so I either just throw or mix them up.

B12~DD1EX being safe is known too, if you look back you'll see the posts :)
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
You can do ex power up after NJP and still combo afterwards with f4 xx ex bladeslice - run cancel - b1,2,1 xx kanoball for 44% dmg. Not sure if you can get something more damaging by run cancelling after ex powerup as the timing is kinda strict.

Maybe ex buff could have applications mid combo after NJP? Gotta do some testing.

Edit: Not enough time to do anything, even a raw ex bladeslice into NJP into ex power up and still combo... buuut here is a corner combo after NJP:
NJP - b3,1,2 - 1,1,2 xx ex bladeslice - 1,1,2 xx kanoball. 55% for 2 bars.
 
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Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
Up ball during a juggle seems to quick stand so I was fiddling around with it in training mode in combination with the EX Buff combo and it's kinda weird. I haven't had a chance to use it much in an actual match so see how it goes but, does it really make it any harder for people to wake up? Or is this something that'll work once?

Oh also B12 xx EX Buff is safe on block (tested with Tempest Spin and Cassie Flipkick) which is good if they TRY to punish it and you get to punish them.

Doing long combos and ending them in upball sometimes leaves Kano at a disadvantage due to gravity scaling, a way to test what combos ended in upball give advantage and what don't is to mash throw after upball and set the dummy to wake-up with a throw. The opponent could grab you out of your oki pressure after certain combos, however, I think some combos could give Kano the ability to cover both delayed get up and wake-up attacks with ex buff: Ex buff would parry armored 1-hit wake-ups for absurd punishes, but if the opponent chooses to do a delayed get-up you can just go for a mix-up immediately after committing to an ex power up.
 

CanadianBaconX

Let's see how long this lasts...
You can do ex power up after NJP and still combo afterwards with f4 xx ex bladeslice - run cancel - b1,2,1 xx kanoball for 44% dmg. Not sure if you can get something more damaging by run cancelling after ex powerup as the timing is kinda strict.

Maybe ex buff could have applications mid combo after NJP? Gotta do some testing.

Edit: Not enough time to do anything, even a raw ex bladeslice into NJP into ex power up and still combo... buuut here is a corner combo after NJP:
NJP - b3,1,2 - 1,1,2 xx ex bladeslice - 1,1,2 xx kanoball. 55% for 2 bars.
Good find! It's weird but you can hit NJP, EXBuff, F212 midscreen for some good damage :)

I noitced in the corner you could do 112 xx BF3EXCancel, NJP, DD3EX, B312, 112 xx DB1EX, 112 xx BF3 but all that comes out to 54% with 3 meters so it's actually worst lmao, gotta love EXBall scaling. Sadly I couldn't find a way to get more damage than your corner one :(


Any Midscreen: NJP, DD3EX, F212, MicroRun xx 112 xx DB1EX, Run xx B12 xx BF3 (50%)
Near a Wall: NJP, DD3EX, F212, MicroRun xx 112 xx DB1EX, 112 xx BF3 (51%)
Corner: Same as the one Smoke posted (55%)
 

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
So I practice the B12xxEXdd3xx112 setup a lot, but I don't really seem to be getting anywhere. I'm kind of wondering if a mixup after the buff is feasibly in the mean time. Like B12xxEXdd3, then into B1/B3 so on yada yada. In theory it's a fine idea, but I don't know how well it works in a match setting, mainly because I never get into a situation to do it in match settings.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
So I practice the B12xxEXdd3xx112 setup a lot, but I don't really seem to be getting anywhere. I'm kind of wondering if a mixup after the buff is feasibly in the mean time. Like B12xxEXdd3, then into B1/B3 so on yada yada. In theory it's a fine idea, but I don't know how well it works in a match setting, mainly because I never get into a situation to do it in match settings.
Well considering you're pretty much neutral if you don't hit the 1 frame link into 112 your mixup isn't guaranteed. They could just poke you or do a faster combo starter than you into a full conversion.
 

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
Well considering you're pretty much neutral if you don't hit the 1 frame link into 112 your mixup isn't guaranteed. They could just poke you or do a faster combo starter than you into a full conversion.
Yeah that's what I was worried about. Basically it's not worth attempting until I can get it down consistently then.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Yeah that's what I was worried about. Basically it's not worth attempting until I can get it down consistently then.
Yeah I can rarely get it to work more than a few times in a row in practice myself, never mind in a match... The idea of doing a mixup is possible on people that don't know the matchup and will respect that you hit them and assume you are at advantage but on people that know the matchup and/or the gimmick you'll probably get hit out of it if you go for a mixup I'm afraid. It's good to do while people don't know though I reckon :)
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
As someone who only played Cybernetic and never knew Cutthroat had armor on Ex Buff, all I can say is What the Fuck.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Since we're expanding the EX Buff armor tech I have a killer against Scorpion. I've been using Cutt more than the other variations so I can transition out of Cyber. Cutt is where it's at I think while the other two are better as MU covers. Anyway, I play a Scorpion user regularly offline, which helped fuel my Scorpion hatred. Well I've got good one here.

I think Yall know we EX Buff Scorpions Slide for full combo on our armor, but the teleport too. If Scorpion makes a bad read and does his EX Teleport you can interrupt between the two hits with EX Buff for a full meterless combo punish which nets about 45% midscreen (at least my BnB does maybe yours is more) and almost 60 if you use a bar. In situations where he thinks I'm going to pressure his WU and he goes to blow me up I've anticipated it a few times and interrupted with EX Buff F2.

I rather do this now on my tele reads than the usual 112 punish off of block because if I'm gonna use a bar might as well get my buff out for even higher damage. Then I end in Kano Ball and run back in for more WU pressure.

EX Buff when it can be used like this can be huge in some MU's I think. I'm going to compile a list with all the specials and "often used" strings that Kano can use EX Buff armor for full combos. If we aren't gonna get buffs from them then we're gonna GET BUFFED on them!
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Two things.

1. I've started using DB1 as a long distance footsie tool. If you do it at a far enough range, it's safe from nearly everything except EX Spin, EX Reptile Slide, Cassie Flip Kick type stuff. Mileena's roll can't punish it. On hit you have enough +Frames to apply some quick pressure and have advantage unless they armor, just be precise with the timing. Seems like some good stuff here.

2. Variation uses more stamina than I thought. Now that I'm getting really good with it, I didn't realize how much stamina I use for run cancel setups. If I use a breaker I'm lost on attack. Any using certain methods to compensate for stamina? Am i using too much? What's the deal lol.
 
Two things.

1. I've started using DB1 as a long distance footsie tool. If you do it at a far enough range, it's safe from nearly everything except EX Spin, EX Reptile Slide, Cassie Flip Kick type stuff. Mileena's roll can't punish it. On hit you have enough +Frames to apply some quick pressure and have advantage unless they armor, just be precise with the timing. Seems like some good stuff here.

2. Variation uses more stamina than I thought. Now that I'm getting really good with it, I didn't realize how much stamina I use for run cancel setups. If I use a breaker I'm lost on attack. Any using certain methods to compensate for stamina? Am i using too much? What's the deal lol.
Do you mean run cancels following exdb1 mid screen? I took some advice from here, or at least a suggestion, that, outside of some wake ups, I only use bars on corner damage. I do nearly no "ex juggling" with cutthroat mid screen unless it's for a kill. This has removed nearly all run cancels for me. I am currently working on staying nearly completely safe mid screen. There is a part of me that thinks this was the intended design. I don't use exdb1 for anythIng but corner combos, so my only running is on random pressure advance. This is just where I am with Kano right now, but I recognized what you said about stamina cause I experienced the same. Now most of mine is used in backdashes.

I also use db1 as you mentioned. I love how deceptive it is in reach. I have come to prefer to be at the distance I can follow up with f212 on db1 hit cause it staggers. Good stuff.

By the way, thought you gave up on Kano? Good to see otherwise.....
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Do you mean run cancels following exdb1 mid screen? I took some advice from here, or at least a suggestion, that, outside of some wake ups, I only use bars on corner damage. I do nearly no "ex juggling" with cutthroat mid screen unless it's for a kill. This has removed nearly all run cancels for me. I am currently working on staying nearly completely safe mid screen. There is a part of me that thinks this was the intended design. I don't use exdb1 for anythIng but corner combos, so my only running is on random pressure advance. This is just where I am with Kano right now, but I recognized what you said about stamina cause I experienced the same. Now most of mine is used in backdashes.

I also use db1 as you mentioned. I love how deceptive it is in reach. I have come to prefer to be at the distance I can follow up with f212 on db1 hit cause it staggers. Good stuff.

By the way, thought you gave up on Kano? Good to see otherwise.....
Ah ok I see. Yea I've been using stamina in my run combos after landing a 50/50 1 bar, but also after landing certain pokes I use a quick run cancel like a D1 or D4 for the B3 pressure, and once they start blocking that a full run for a 50/50. But I find sometimes my stamina gets low and then I can't start a run at times with this strategy and it blows me up. I'll start adjusting to something similar to see if it helps. Kano needs to hit the gym and work on his cardio lol.

Since the B121 string is safe and superrrrr safe it's easy to go meterless, and the B3 maybe I'll use the meter if I commit. F2 I always do meterless so that helps. They have to respect F2 after Db1 hits and I love it. Catches people more often than it should. Then once they start blocking, the run lol.

Yea I did, but I like the character too much to stop playing him. I play him second to Tanya now, but use him in certain MU's. Playing more Cutthroat now than the other two variations combined. I think this is the best variation while at the same time being the least used/explored.