Kano Changes 5/20/11

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

I'm glad you felt the need to post this on mulitple Kano threads.

Pretty sure Cyke_Out just d,f+1'd your ass....


....jus' sayin'.

@loloforo

I'm pretty sure once you block the up ball, you can try to get a grab in, haven't tested this enough though, but I don't see why you couldn't.

 

[THTB]

Hmmm...well, I played a Kano just now. Granted, it was online, but there was something very odd that I asked the Kano player. Each time he tried to do his launcher strings vs me, I would dash and would hit him. It seemed like he wasn't blocking (And he possibly wasn't). So I asked him if he could...he said no. I need someone to help test this with me. If this is 100% true that Kano's strings are that unsafe vs Reptile, then:

1. I will love Reptile even more, because dash already punishes upball consistently. Tom, you aren't kidding when you say this character is the best punisher in the game. I LOVE IT!
2. I won't have as many issues towards Kano as I originally did.

This is making me realize that this game is way too unexplored...and it sucks that the training mode doesn't help players explore anything other than combos.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

Hmmm...well, I played a Kano just now. Granted, it was online, but there was something very odd that I asked the Kano player. Each time he tried to do his launcher strings vs me, I would dash and would hit him. It seemed like he wasn't blocking (And he possibly wasn't). So I asked him if he could...he said no. I need someone to help test this with me. If this is 100% true that Kano's strings are that unsafe vs Reptile, then:

1. I will love Reptile even more, because dash already punishes upball consistently. Tom, you aren't kidding when you say this character is the best punisher in the game. I LOVE IT!
2. I won't have as many issues towards Kano as I originally did.

This is making me realize that this game is way too unexplored...and it sucks that the training mode doesn't help players explore anything other than combos.

If you had a PSN acct, I'd try it with ya. I'm a little disappointed that somebody was too stubborn to expand their character knowledge, but eh, such is life.

 

[Dulllyanna]

@THTB: I can't speak for his 212 or f3,b2, but his b112 string is + a bit on block and afaik airtight. At least enough that he can stuff Kung Lao's spin with d1.

 

[Loot]

Hmmm...well, I played a Kano just now. Granted, it was online, but there was something very odd that I asked the Kano player. Each time he tried to do his launcher strings vs me, I would dash and would hit him. It seemed like he wasn't blocking (And he possibly wasn't). So I asked him if he could...he said no. I need someone to help test this with me. If this is 100% true that Kano's strings are that unsafe vs Reptile, then:

1. I will love Reptile even more, because dash already punishes upball consistently. Tom, you aren't kidding when you say this character is the best punisher in the game. I LOVE IT!
2. I won't have as many issues towards Kano as I originally did.

This is making me realize that this game is way too unexplored...and it sucks that the training mode doesn't help players explore anything other than combos.

I'll help ya, tag is curled mustache

 

[Mgt2]

Hmmm...well, I played a Kano just now. Granted, it was online, but there was something very odd that I asked the Kano player. Each time he tried to do his launcher strings vs me, I would dash and would hit him. It seemed like he wasn't blocking (And he possibly wasn't). So I asked him if he could...he said no. I need someone to help test this with me. If this is 100% true that Kano's strings are that unsafe vs Reptile, then:

1. I will love Reptile even more, because dash already punishes upball consistently. Tom, you aren't kidding when you say this character is the best punisher in the game. I LOVE IT!
2. I won't have as many issues towards Kano as I originally did.

This is making me realize that this game is way too unexplored...and it sucks that the training mode doesn't help players explore anything other than combos.

Eff you son. "angry fits" hmm interesting but I don't have a second controller to test this. hmm

 

[THTB]

I just thought about this. Tom said blocked upball = free throw attempt. This means the move is at least -10 on block.

I no longer hate the move lmao. >.>

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Hmmm...well, I played a Kano just now. Granted, it was online, but there was something very odd that I asked the Kano player. Each time he tried to do his launcher strings vs me, I would dash and would hit him. It seemed like he wasn't blocking (And he possibly wasn't). So I asked him if he could...he said no. I need someone to help test this with me. If this is 100% true that Kano's strings are that unsafe vs Reptile, then:

1. I will love Reptile even more, because dash already punishes upball consistently. Tom, you aren't kidding when you say this character is the best punisher in the game. I LOVE IT!
2. I won't have as many issues towards Kano as I originally did.

This is making me realize that this game is way too unexplored...and it sucks that the training mode doesn't help players explore anything other than combos.

I told ya man, Reptile can mess Kano up! But, I agree that none of us have truly explored all the characters yet, I was just completely dominated by a Sektor today...I have never been beaten so badly in my life. My controller which I had stepped on earlier that day coincidentally went dead right after that match!

 

[THTB]

Well, tested it with Loot...Kano is safe as all hell. But I learned one thing. I don't think cannonball has that fast of a startup. Upball wouldn't come out if I tried to hit Reptile out of his EX dash. I wouldn't doubt the startup is the same as Cage's flashkick.

 

[M2Dave]

Anyone know what move punish that thing ? i play sub zero and although the matchup does look ok i guess. I can't punish up ball so i guess i could really get abused

Up Ball is 7 frames fast and roughly -8 or -9 on block. I'm fairly certain universal d+1s connect for most characters. You get 2% of damage and solid frame advantage. However, throws are not free. Kano can crouch and throw you back. As far as specific punishment is concerned, here is what I recall.

Scorpion: Nothing.
Liu Kang: Nothing.
Kung Lao: d,f+1 + combo. Enhanced d,f+1 + combo. X-Ray + combo.
Sub Zero: Nothing.
Sindel: Nothing.
Ermac: Nothing.
Reptile: b,f+2. EX b,f+2 + slide / EX slide.
Kitana: Nothing.
Johnny Cage: b,f+4
Jade: Probably d,f+4, d,f+4? Not sure.
Mileena: Nothing.
Nightwolf: f,f+4? Not sure.
Cyrax: Nothing?
Noob: Nothing.
Smoke Nothing.
Sektor: Nothing.
Sonya: Nothing.
Jax: Nothing.
Kano: d,f+2. Enhanced d,f+2.
Stryker: Nothing.
Shang Tsung: Nothing.
Baraka: Nothing?
Kabal: Nothing.
Raiden: b,f+3. Enhanced b,f+3.
Cyber Sub Zero: Nothing.
Sheeva: Nothing.
Quan Chi: Nothing.

 

[Loot]

Well, tested it with Loot...Kano is safe as all hell. But I learned one thing. I don't think cannonball has that fast of a startup. Upball wouldn't come out if I tried to hit Reptile out of his EX dash. I wouldn't doubt the startup is the same as Cage's flashkick.

Xraying Reptiles EX Dash was hilarious.

 

[Gthunda866]

Up Ball is 7 frames fast and roughly -8 or -9 on block. I'm fairly certain universal d+1s connect for most characters. You get 2% of damage and solid frame advantage. However, throws are not free. Kano can crouch and throw you back. As far as specific punishment is concerned, here is what I recall.

Scorpion: Nothing.
Liu Kang: Nothing.
Kung Lao: d,f+1 + combo. Enhanced d,f+1 + combo. X-Ray + combo.
Sub Zero: Nothing.
Sindel: Nothing.
Ermac: Nothing.
Reptile: b,f+2. EX b,f+2 + slide / EX slide.
Kitana: Nothing.
Johnny Cage: b,f+4
Jade: Probably d,f+4, d,f+4? Not sure.
Mileena: Nothing.
Nightwolf: f,f+4? Not sure.
Cyrax: Nothing?
Noob: Nothing.
Smoke Nothing.
Sektor: Nothing.
Sonya: Nothing.
Jax: Nothing.
Kano: d,f+2. Enhanced d,f+2.
Stryker: Nothing.
Shang Tsung: Nothing.
Baraka: Nothing?
Kabal: Nothing.
Raiden: b,f+3. Enhanced b,f+3.
Cyber Sub Zero: Nothing.
Sheeva: Nothing.
Quan Chi: Nothing.

This is really helpful to people, even though it's against us the Kano players it really shows that you can punish him and that Kano isn't brainless.. give this to Arcade-Fever or something or Tom Brady they might be able to add to this

 

[Sully]

Man, I need to get in the lab and test some of this shit, guys. I"ve been kind of MIA from my consoles in general as I've been doing a lot of homebrewery related stuff. I need to get off the liquid bread and back on the stick, so much new info. Damn me, and taking a little "real life" break.

 

[cyke_out]

I'm glad the knee jerk reaction is slowly going away. And good shit on the punish testing, m2dave, this is useful to everyone, especially Kano players, so we can know what match-ups to respect when throwing out random up-balls for checks.

 

[PunchYaFace]

Yes the new up ball is great but Kano is still far from broken. His wakeup is terrible in my opinion. Choke and EX choke can be ducked and punished no problem. I was fighting last night on a rare good connection. The other player would get me down and just do a simple d+3 or 4 and beat out my wakeups. Sure you can just get up block but if someone is in your face Kano has a hard time with the pressure. It may just be me. And wakeup up ball gets beaten out by everything. A combo string will beat it. And I think teleporters can give him alittle trouble too. Just saying he's beatable that's all.

 

[M2Dave]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I'll re-test everything with a friend shortly and then send it to Arcade-Fever to include it in his thread.

 

[tehm]

Might want to check out Cyrax's EX Teleport, Smoke's TP punch, and Jax's lunge to see if they connect.

Not sure what your testing options are, but it might also be interesting to check out Cyrax's Bomb, CSZ's Bomb(?), Shang Tsung's up fireball, Sektor's homing missile, and Scorpion's EX Flames to see if it's enough frame disadvantage to guarantee any traps.

Oh, and if the guy above is right about Kano's ability to uppercut a throw attempt after upball is right (which doesn't sound right... but let's say for argument that it is) then he would have to be suicidal to attempt it versus sheeva (...because it would give her a 50/50 with her low command throw, except that normal throw is like ~12% where low throw is like ~47% so allowing the low as an option is a sucker's bet) so that would essentially let her get the throw for free still.

 

[Helter Skelter]

This is really helpful to people, even though it's against us the Kano players it really shows that you can punish him and that Kano isn't brainless.. give this to Arcade-Fever or something or Tom Brady they might be able to add to this

Personally, that list just showed me how much more stupid that move has become than I had originally thought.

 

[Helter Skelter]

Double Post.. Sorry..

 

[M2Dave]

Update.

- Up Ball is 7 frames fast and roughly -8 or -9 on block

- d+1s connect for all characters. You get 2% of damage and solid frame advantage

- characters with fast uppercuts (i.e., d+2) punish the Up Ball too. Within the "characters with fast uppercuts" category, some uppercuts are still faster than others and are therefore able to punish the Up Ball easier and more effectively. I rate the difficulty as best as I can.

- throws are not free. Kano can crouch and throw or uppercut you. He can jump back too.

- specific character punishment is listed below (almost complete). Only two characters can launch punish Kano: Kung Lao (any d,f+1 including X-Ray) and Kitana (Enhanced Fan Lift)

Scorpion: Nothing.

Liu Kang: Nothing.

Kung Lao: d,f+1 + combo and Enhanced d,f+1 + combo and X-Ray + combo.

Sub Zero: Nothing.

Sindel: Nothing.

Ermac: Nothing.

Reptile: b,f+2 and EX b,f+2 + slide / EX slide.

Kitana: New: d+2 (moderate) and Enhanced Fan Lift + combo.

Johnny Cage: New: d+2 (moderate) or b,f+4

Jade: Nothing. d,f+4 is too slow.

Mileena: Nothing.

Nightwolf: New: d+2 and f,f+4 or Enhanced f,f+4 (both hard)

Cyrax: Have to test Teleport / Enhanced Teleport.

Noob: New: d+2 (hard)

Smoke Nothing. Teleport Punch is too slow.

Sektor: New: d+2 (moderate).

Sonya: New: d+2 (easy)

Jax: New: d+2 (easy)

Kano: d,f+2 and Enhanced d,f+2.

Stryker: New: d+2 (moderate)

Shang Tsung: Nothing.

Baraka: Nothing.

Kabal: Nothing. Neither b,f+4 nor Enhanced b,f+4 works.

Raiden: b,f+3 and Enhanced b,f+3.

Cyber Sub Zero: Nothing.

Sheeva: Nothing.

Quan Chi: New: d+2 (moderate)

 

[Evil_Riu48]

so i take a 2% damage for blocking the ball but i get a 50/50

if i was a kano player i wouldn't be doing random balls

 

[KazigluBey]

so i take a 2% damage for blocking the ball but i get a 50/50

if i was a kano player i wouldn't be doing random balls

Why not do random balls? Jump in to pressure me? Bam eat upball. Gonna block and punish with a d1? I just wakeup upball. I train you to then be cautious and block and then overhead or grab you. Random upball is like Kens lp shoryuken, little reason not to just throw it out.

 

[M2Dave]

Some characters may be able to jab punish Up Ball. Results will be posted soon.

 

[Korpz]

Been maining Kano since day 1 and he was a beast before. Now he is even better. Most people online I have fought today aren't fast enough to punish the new up ball. If you throw em twice in a row you can hit most people I've found. I hope this doesn't start a bunch of Kano bandwagoners.

Agreed %100

 

[Gthunda866]

Some characters may be able to jab punish Up Ball. Results will be posted soon.

Dave your doing some great work here man, keep it up