Match-up Discussion Juicy VIII.a: My Final(ized) MU chart

[Pig Of The Hut]

The sexual tension between cowboy and king has gotten upsurd

 

[rev0lver]

this is upsurd

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Well then obviously if your Sinestro is beating every Scorpion and my Sinestro is beating every Scorpion, then....... then..... *GASPPPPPPPP!!!!*

Maybe it's Sinestro's favor

And me beating people with alts actually does prove matchups. Especially if the person who mains him does as well. I'll explain:

If Jupiter is beating every single Bane with Martian, and I'm beating every single Bane with Martian, then it's probably Martian's favor.
If Honeybee is beating every single Batman with Flash, and I'm beating every single Batman with Flash, then it's probably Flash's favor.
If Denzell is beating every single Batman with GL, Gross is beating every single Batman with GL, AND I'm beating every single Batman with GL, then it's probably GL favor.
etc.

You see the pattern?

It doesn't work that way. At one time I was beating every Doomsday, and then I couldn't beat whiteboi, and now I usually beat whiteboi in our sets. Another example: I beat every Bane and now Ducky can beat me in a set with Bane. Do you see a pattern? If we just went based on who is beating who RIGHT NOW, then matchups would never change and we would basically still be living in 2013.

 

[Bugman]

I'm not saying I am the best Sinestro. I'm saying I would body any Scorpion with Sinestro. And any Batman

I'm waiting for you to get on so I can body your Scorpion lol

Your Sinestro is not ready and it to week bruh. Once I get back on in it won't be long, I will bring you death and I will crush your bones.

 

[16 Bit]

King's match up copping is upsurd.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Upsurd

 

[Shaazzyam]

I already spanked @FOREVER KING free with Batman guise

 

[ForeverKing]

King's match up copping is upsurd.

How? At least I can prove my mines. You guys can't prove yours

If anything that makes mine BETTER than yours

 

[ForeverKing]

It doesn't work that way. At one time I was beating every Doomsday, and then I couldn't beat whiteboi, and now I usually beat whiteboi in our sets. Another example: I beat every Bane and now Ducky can beat me in a set with Bane. Do you see a pattern? If we just went based on who is beating who RIGHT NOW, then matchups would never change and we would basically still be living in 2013.

OK I'll give it to you, you're actually making a logical argument for once.

All I'm saying is don't matchup cop matchups that you would get bodied in. Anyone can say words. If you think Batman vs GL is a 5-5, I want to actually see your Batman vs Gross or DJT.

If you want your words to hold weight you have to be able to prove it. I can prove all the matchups I've argued so far

 

[ForeverKing]

Upsurd

You say that now, but remember I was the guy that Zod vs Sinestro and Zod vs Aquaman were 5-5's, I said that many many months ago. You argued a lot with me, but now you finally see that I was right all along.

I'm usually always right about matchups early, it takes everyone else a year or so to figure out that I was right all along.

Call me FOREVER KING, THE MATCHUP PROPHET

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

You say that now, but remember I was the guy that Zod vs Sinestro and Zod vs Aquaman were 5-5's, I said that many many months ago. You argued a lot with me, but now you finally see that I was right all along.

I'm usually always right about matchups early, it takes everyone else a year or so to figure out that I was right all along.

Call me FOREVER KING, THE MATCHUP PROPHET

Wait wait I'm not talking about anything at all whatsoever

I'm just misspelling absurd on purpose and talking you and cowboy have immense sexual tension

If I side w anybody here it's u cause cowboy is beyond edgy

 

[tatterbug4]

You say that now, but remember I was the guy that Zod vs Sinestro and Zod vs Aquaman were 5-5's, I said that many many months ago. You argued a lot with me, but now you finally see that I was right all along.

I'm usually always right about matchups early, it takes everyone else a year or so to figure out that I was right all along.

Call me FOREVER KING, THE MATCHUP PROPHET

Zod vs AM and zod vs sinestro are 5-5s? :/ ?

 

[Youphemism]

Well then obviously if your Sinestro is beating every Scorpion and my Sinestro is beating every Scorpion, then....... then..... *GASPPPPPPPP!!!!*

Maybe it's Sinestro's favor

And me beating people with alts actually does prove matchups. Especially if the person who mains him does as well. I'll explain:

If Jupiter is beating every single Bane with Martian, and I'm beating every single Bane with Martian, then it's probably Martian's favor.
If Honeybee is beating every single Batman with Flash, and I'm beating every single Batman with Flash, then it's probably Flash's favor.
If Denzell is beating every single Batman with GL, Gross is beating every single Batman with GL, AND I'm beating every single Batman with GL, then it's probably GL favor.
etc.

You see the pattern?

OR the people you're facing might not be playing the matchup correctly. Especially if someone that doesn't main the character, ie you, is doing just as well against opponents as the mains of said character. Let's put your logic to the test with me:

If Jupiter is beating every single Bane with Martian, and I'm beating every single Bane with Martian, then it's probably Martian's favor.
If Honeybee is beating every single Batman with Flash, and I'm beating every single Batman with Flash, then it's probably Flash's favor.
If Denzell is beating every single Batman with GL, Gross is beating every single Batman with GL, AND I'm beating every single Batman with GL, then it's probably GL favor.
etc.

You see? I'm not a recognised top player or anything by any means but just because I'm winning the matchup and the mains are too doesn't necessarily mean it's that character's favour. Of course it could be, but that might not be the main reason. You've got to look at how well the opponent is playing the matchup too.

 

[Laos_boy]

Harley. I still say 7-3 sinestro.
Her only hope is to guess right at the beginning out the match, get a knockdown, guess right there and then she can zone him. But if her hits her at least once he knocks her full screen and gets trait out and it now is a 2-8.
And the talk that she stops him from building trait. So what? You get a 10% lead and now you can trade with her. So why build trait and let her hit you when you can zone her and let her come to you. You also out footsie her. Then only thing she has is iaGun tantrum stance j2 and Straight guns. B1 d2 and Axe covers all of that. I guess when she gets him in cupcake jail it can look 6-4 but all around you have way superior tools.

I agree with CW frost nd zatanna though

 

[ForeverKing]

OR the people you're facing might not be playing the matchup correctly. Especially if someone that doesn't main the character, ie you, is doing just as well against opponents as the mains of said character. Let's put your logic to the test with me:

If Jupiter is beating every single Bane with Martian, and I'm beating every single Bane with Martian, then it's probably Martian's favor.
If Honeybee is beating every single Batman with Flash, and I'm beating every single Batman with Flash, then it's probably Flash's favor.
If Denzell is beating every single Batman with GL, Gross is beating every single Batman with GL, AND I'm beating every single Batman with GL, then it's probably GL favor.
etc.

You see? I'm not a recognised top player or anything by any means but just because I'm winning the matchup and the mains are too doesn't necessarily mean it's that character's favour. Of course it could be, but that might not be the main reason. You've got to look at how well the opponent is playing the matchup too.

But the thing is I'm not just talking about beating any random player. I'm talking about beating the best of the best in the world with said character. They should know the matchup if they are the best representative of said character

 

[ForeverKing]

Zod vs AM and zod vs sinestro are 5-5s? :/ ?

Yes

 

[tatterbug4]

Yes

You can probably persuade me on zod sinestro. But zod vs aquaman? What do you think about zod vs catwoman I struggle a lot with that?

 

[Youphemism]

But the thing is I'm not just talking about beating any random player. I'm talking about beating the best of the best in the world with said character. They should know the matchup if they are the best representative of said character

I didn't say you were talking about any random player, but even so we still see examples of top players not knowing the matchup. My point is that even though you beat a top player and a main does too, it doesn't necessarily mean that character wins the matchup. They probably do but you also need to take into account the mu experience of that player too.

 

[ForeverKing]

I didn't say you were talking about any random player, but even so we still see examples of top players not knowing the matchup. My point is that even though you beat a top player and a main does too, it doesn't necessarily mean that character wins the matchup. They probably do but you also need to take into account the mu experience of that player too.

Maybe. It's a possibility. I'm not saying it for sure determines the matchup I'm just saying probably. Most likely. You know?

 

[ForeverKing]

You can probably persuade me on zod sinestro. But zod vs aquaman? What do you think about zod vs catwoman I struggle a lot with that?

I can play those matchups with you tonight if you want. I don't know anything about Zod vs Catwoman except she gets zoned out, but I've played the other matchups a decent amount.

Vs Aquaman, if Zod has the lifelead Aquaman is forced to come to him. Aquaman can't really catch Zods backdash tho it's ridiculous lol. He can trade his FTD with your IAZB sure but you win those trades, the Zod ball is just going to juggle him and waste time letting your trait have more time to recharge. Your trait is free chip damage and free meter gain and possibly a 40% combo of you open Aquaman up. If not, push him back with MB low lasers and go back to zoning. Your MB low laser on block does not guarantee a free trait summon, FTD on block does not guarantee a free trait summon. He can FTD you before your trait comes out. But if he goes for FTD you can shoot him with your side arm. So that's the mixup. Is Zod going to side arm or summon trait? Also if you hit with side arm and Aquaman goes for FTD, you can hit him with another side arm. So that is a mind game as well. MB side arm guarantees you free trait summon, MB low laser on hit guarantees you free trait summon, and finishing combos with 123 guarantees you free trait summon. If you block FTD while you have trait out, trait grab punishes. If you get Aquaman with trait grab and he uses his trait, don't hit him while your trait is still biting him. That's a waste of your trait he'll just block whatever you're doing. You have to wait until the trait throws Aquaman so he's airborne, then you combo. MB push also does not guarantee a free trait summon

 

[Forbidden_Donut]

I didn't say you were talking about any random player, but even so we still see examples of top players not knowing the matchup. My point is that even though you beat a top player and a main does too, it doesn't necessarily mean that character wins the matchup. They probably do but you also need to take into account the mu experience of that player too.

Wait, so let me get this straight. Cowboy can beat slips, or pl (or whoever is the best scorpion) and say that this matchup is 5-5 , but king can beat the SAME people (slips or pl) and his opinion means nothing because he's not a"main " of sinestro. What?! King is saying he beats the SAME people with sinestro. You don't have to main a character to know how to play then well..

 

[tatterbug4]

I can play those matchups with you tonight if you want. I don't know anything about Zod vs Catwoman except she gets zoned out, but I've played the other matchups a decent amount.

Vs Aquaman, if Zod has the lifelead Aquaman is forced to come to him. Aquaman can't really catch Zods backdash tho it's ridiculous lol. He can trade his FTD with your IAZB sure but you win those trades, the Zod ball is just going to juggle him and waste time letting your trait have more time to recharge. Your trait is free chip damage and free meter gain and possibly a 40% combo of you open Aquaman up. If not, push him back with MB low lasers and go back to zoning. Your MB low laser on block does not guarantee a free trait summon, FTD on block does not guarantee a free trait summon. He can FTD you before your trait comes out. But if he goes for FTD you can shoot him with your side arm. So that's the mixup. Is Zod going to side arm or summon trait? Also if you hit with side arm and Aquaman goes for FTD, you can hit him with another side arm. So that is a mind game as well. MB side arm guarantees you free trait summon, MB low laser on hit guarantees you free trait summon, and finishing combos with 123 guarantees you free trait summon. If you block FTD while you have trait out, trait grab punishes. If you get Aquaman with trait grab and he uses his trait, don't hit him while your trait is still biting him. That's a waste of your trait he'll just block whatever you're doing. You have to wait until the trait throws Aquaman so he's airborne, then you combo. MB push also does not guarantee a free trait summon

How about tomorrow

 

[Youphemism]

Wait, so let me get this straight. Cowboy can beat slips, or pl (or whoever is the best scorpion) and say that this matchup is 5-5 , but king can beat the SAME people (slips or pl) and his opinion means nothing because he's not a"main " of sinestro. What?! King is saying he beats the SAME people with sinestro. You don't have to main a character to know how to play then well..

You didn't get it straight I didn't say his opinion didn't mean anything but in general a main's opinion is going to hold more weight since they will have played the matchup more and know more about both their character and the matchup itself.
Player A is a main of character 1 and player B happens to be playing that character for this matchup too against player C who is playing character 2. If player A beats player C and player B beats player C then it might mean character 1 beats character 2 but you also need to take into account how well player C knows the matchup. It may well be that both player A and B could be winning because player C doesn't know/play the matchup well enough. Sometimes it's a mix.

 

[Rude]

You know, Wound is a strong player, obviously. I would like to play The Green lantern match as iff it were even. If Wound knows something about the match up that Batman mains don't, then we could only benefit. So this is what i propose: How abot Wound gives us a point by point, scenario by scenario breakdown of the match up? A full analysis, if you will, in great detail, of how the mu should be played. If he knows something we don't, lets hear it. No more vague or generic talking points. Tell us what to do, Cowboy.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AT Hawkgirl HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA