General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage Variations Thread

[YOMI DJT]

His nutpunch is slower in a list and I don't really like that. A list is good for sure but I'll stick with fistcuffs because it is the most fun for me. A list is obviously the best because of run cancels. Once run cancels are perfected by any johnny player, I can see him being a very top character in my opinion.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

in A List, f 3 4 xx dash is safe; in fisticuffs it is not.

Also, in A List, he can do more than just an EX nut punch to start a combo after the forward 3. My favortite meterless combo in A List right now is as follows

F 3 4 xx Run xx F 2 4 - d1 - f3 xx low fireball

i dont remember the damage off the top of my head, but that combo keeps the opponent close and forward 3 is johnny's most useful punish. The above combo cannot be done in Fisticuffs or Stunt double.

Reason I end it with the fireball and not the nut punch is because the fireball tends to hit more often, for whatever reason the nut punch only seems to hit some of the time.

you have to time the last f3 later so that they are closer to the ground for nutpunch to connect consistently.

 

[Sulfur]

you have to time the last f3 later so that they are closer to the ground for nutpunch to connect consistently.

yeah i get that, idk the A List normal nut punch is so weird, its hard enough to hit offline let alone online lol.

 

[KowtowRobinson]

Am I doing something wrong, or is there really a cooldown on how often he can refresh his mimic stocks with db4? Was practicing a corner combo and kept getting sweeps instead of the db4.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

Am I doing something wrong, or is there really a cooldown on how often he can refresh his mimic stocks with db4? Was practicing a corner combo and kept getting sweeps instead of the db4.

yes its, and it is quite long. about 5 seconds.

 

[KowtowRobinson]

yes its, and it is quite long. about 5 seconds.

I feel like that makes it's use in combos somewhat limited, since you have to be so much more careful with how you spend those two stocks. The combos are there of course, and if you can end a match with them that's fine. Is the regular db1 enough to rely on while you wait for more stocks?

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

im gonna try and explore different types of combos and ideas concerning clone stock management; in some cases i think it might be more worth it to do some thing like using 1 clone in conjecture with 1 bar instead of both clones always.

if a clone is used really early on in a combo, and an ex nut punch is used as extension, perhaps we can make a combo that nets us ~30% and lasts long enough that 114 xx activate is possible at the end so we are back to two stocks. just throwin ideas out there.

Right now I think A List has a bit of an edge because all of the resources that make it good are readily available, and ideas around clone resource haven't been developed yet. Stunt Double is going to be partly about balancing the sacrifice of damage for activate opportunities.







its entirely possible im over thinking all of this tho

 

[KowtowRobinson]

im gonna try and explore different types of combos and ideas concerning clone stock management; in some cases i think it might be more worth it to do some thing like using 1 clone in conjecture with 1 bar instead of both clones always.

if a clone is used really early on in a combo, and an ex nut punch is used as extension, perhaps we can make a combo that nets us ~30% and lasts long enough that 114 xx activate is possible at the end so we are back to two stocks. just throwin ideas out there.

Right now I think A List has a bit of an edge because all of the resources that make it good are readily available, and ideas around clone resource haven't been developed yet. Stunt Double is going to be partly about balancing the sacrifice of damage for activate opportunities.







its entirely possible im over thinking all of this tho

So you can restock after using only 1 stock then? The timer doesn't start when both stocks are spent? That would make it a little less restrictive for sure.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

yeah, its helps, but overall the clones seem one of the most restrictive "buff/state" moves in the game

- super long cool down
- fairly long start up
- doesn't carry over in rounds

 

[Sulfur]

yeah, its helps, but overall the clones seem one of the most restrictive "buff/state" moves in the game

- super long cool down
- fairly long start up
- doesn't carry over in rounds

Exactly why I don't like them lol

 

[M.D.]

Don't forget the clones dissapear after an X-ray animation, and a interactable cutscene (with the poles and the 2by4s).

It's like Bane tier in injustice with his trait dissapearing in transitions.

Wtf NRS?

I know they probably wanted to avoid Xray into run f3 xx db1 , f3 xx db1, f3xxbd3, but really?

 

[its_ezie]

Johnnys nut punch is best used in A-list no questions asked. The simple fact that you can mb it so late trains your opponent to block it because if they do decide to move they get combo punished and are left standing again after ending a combo with nutpunch. The only good thing with stunt double is the damage output is far greater then cuffs and a-list. But nothing is beating a-list in terms of pressure.

 

[Wrath0594]

Johnnys nut punch is best used in A-list no questions asked. The simple fact that you can mb it so late trains your opponent to block it because if they do decide to move they get combo punished and are left standing again after ending a combo with nutpunch. The only good thing with stunt double is the damage output is far greater then cuffs and a-list. But nothing is beating a-list in terms of pressure.

Stunt Double can still pressure thanks to clone shadow kick making things safe and clone ex db1 sort of jailing. A-List is generally better for it, but not in every situation since you still have to manage stamina. That seems to be the trade-off between the two variations though. A lil more pressure vs a lil more damage/zoning? Does a list have an arcing forceball?

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

"rabble rabble a list!"
"rabble rabble stunt double!"

 

[its_ezie]

Stunt Double can still pressure thanks to clone shadow kick making things safe and clone ex db1 sort of jailing. A-List is generally better for it, but not in every situation since you still have to manage stamina. That seems to be the trade-off between the two variations though. A lil more pressure vs a lil more damage/zoning? Does a list have an arcing forceball?

stamia is truely not a problem at all lol idk why everyone keeps saying that for a list. cancelling his moves takes up very little stamia and his mid screen combos do not require the use of ANY stamia at all on e you hit confirm a f24 string or 113. i have yet to have any real issue in regards to stamia and a-list is all i play really. And yes he has arcing forceball in a list a high and low

 

[Barrogh]

"rabble rabble a list!"
"rabble rabble stunt double!"

Because picking one makes it impossible to pick another. At least until next match

 

[Mikemetroid]

Can someone record doing Cage pressure vs Reptile/Kung Lao on reversal (dash/spin)?

 

[Alphabattack]

Can someone record doing Cage pressure vs Reptile/Kung Lao on reversal (dash/spin)?

Here is 113xxBF4xxRunxxBlock on Tempest Kung Lao's ex Spin. Took me a while to get it right.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Man the recovery on B1212121212 is faster than it looks(or is, it's supposedly 10 frames), which is nice since you can just stop at any point before the block pushes you too far away so they don't ever know exactly when you'll stop it, and I usually mix it up with a sweep or a f2xx into nut punch/ex nut punch(and whatever combo or whatever)

 

[RWDY Nori]

So it's safe to conclude cage would be fucked up if he had A list and Stunt Double together

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

heh yee



after a brief affair with a list, i came back to stunt double. i found the neutral tools, lockdown from neutral, upfront damage, and corner carry being worth the patience needed to have clones stocked

 

[Wrath0594]

So it's safe to conclude cage would be fucked up if he had A list and Stunt Double together

Still wouldn't be as strong as Cass or Kung Jin.
XD

 

[RWDY Nori]

Still wouldn't be as strong as Cass or Kung Jin.
XD

I don't think Kung Jin is as good as people say. I think he's easy, and cheap, like KL was early MK9. Once people start to learn his range (and he's easy to zone out) he will be a lot easier to deal with.

Cassie is pretty ridiculous right now and I think she will be long term as well

 

[Wrath0594]

I don't think Kung Jin is as good as people say. I think he's easy, and cheap, like KL was early MK9. Once people start to learn his range (and he's easy to zone out) he will be a lot easier to deal with.

Cassie is pretty ridiculous right now and I think she will be long term as well

Sooo off topic but-
Bruh, 4 frame divekick. + frames on 11. Meterless 35% conversions of of d1's! Same njp range as Ferra/Torr and Takeda. No amount of learning makes any of those tools any worse. I'm betting they'll end up in the same tier.

Oh, and the eventhubs tier list had Cassie in the very bottom!
#buffcassiesheneedsit

 

[RWDY Nori]

Sooo off topic but-
Bruh, 4 frame divekick. + frames on 11. Meterless 35% conversions of of d1's! Same njp range as Ferra/Torr and Takeda. No amount of learning makes any of those tools any worse. I'm betting they'll end up in the same tier.

Oh, and the eventhubs tier list had Cassie in the very bottom!
#buffcassiesheneedsit

Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't feel he will stay on top (Kung Jin). Plus it's NRS so if he's OP online, he's getting nerfed..........which.......omg...........that means Cassie WILL get buffed. Fuck me