Johnny Cage Tech 101: X-ray properties

[SyXX]

Having a way to beat the xray with a free attack AND having the cage player waste meter is along the lines of a 60/40 with Cage being the 40 for a fucked up Xray. I liked it better when his X-ray was a solid 50/50 guessing game.
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This explains some of the wonkyness of the xray. I don't think tom was trying to say that anyone would ever be using long range pokes to knock you out of it considering the xray is punishable by a full combo after "come on". He was just showing that the engine is not so buggy after all and explaining the properties of the xray itself.

That said I jumped a mileena xray today and landed a good distance behind her. Had about a second then let go of block. It moved me about 1/4 screen and put me into her xray. Wtf is that about tom?

 

[Tremloc]

It makes perfect sense, he shouldn't be 100% invincible unless it's close range. If a JC wants to burn his X-ray w/the char outside of his prefered range, he deserves what happens to him next

Cage's x-ray should have an active timer on it. If you hit me with anything except a projectile during cage's x-ray frames when the timer is ticking down, you get dickpunched thrice.

I agree it's not game-breaking, but another inconsistency in mk9.

As far as the sweep range baloney. Mileena's D+4 is considered outside of sweep range and solid mileena players already know what that range is and poke people with it from that range like crazy. If I'm reading my opponent correctly I should be able to activate my x-ray outside of this magical functioning range and still have it parry if it's during cage's active timer frames.

 

[RWDY Nori]

As far as the sweep range baloney. Mileena's D+4 is considered outside of sweep range and solid mileena players already know what that range is and poke people with it from that range like crazy. If I'm reading my opponent correctly I should be able to activate my x-ray outside of this magical functioning range and still have it parry if it's during cage's active timer frames.

This isn't MvC3, that's why that move shouldn't work outside of close range. What you are basically suggesting is if Kabal throws a groundsaw from sweep range, it should activate. You clearly know that makes no sense. If you are reading a D4, don't waste meter, jump kick her. D4 is not invincible, otherwise I might agree w/you

 

[Tremloc]

This isn't MvC3, that's why that move shouldn't work outside of close range. What you are basically suggesting is if Kabal throws a groundsaw from sweep range, it should activate.

well see that's where the conversation gets interesting. I'd be fine with all projectiles beating cage's xray - even at close range. Maybe the core of the issue is that it parrys projectiles at all. I would argue then that any non-projectile move that contacts johnny cage during his active parry frames should be parryable and grant cage his xray.

If you are reading a D4, don't waste meter, jump kick her. D4 is not invincible

It has nothing to do with how beatable D4 is or whether it's a waste of meter. What you're suggesting here is to do a single-percentage damaging jump kick vs a guaranteed 34% damage and possibly 20%+ extra. That doesn't make any sense to me nor is it a waste of meter if I can finish the match against someone right then and there because I made the correct read.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Tremloc: JC should not be 100% invincible, and if some chars have ranges where they can hit him out of it, it makes sense. Only up close if they try to hit them, they will get smacked and eat 52%. Think about it, 52% damage on an x-ray that counters ALL projectiles/lows/throws/highs/mids up close. That's not good enough, it needs to have MORE range?

 

[Tremloc]

Tremloc: JC should not be 100% invincible, and if some chars have ranges where they can hit him out of it, it makes sense. Only up close if they try to hit them, they will get smacked and eat 52%. Think about it, 52% damage on an x-ray that counters ALL projectiles/lows/throws/highs/mids up close. That's not good enough, it needs to have MORE range?

Range has nothing to do with it. I would have designed cage's xray as such: If cage activates his xray and you hit him with a non-projectile attack during his active frames, you get parried and eat it. If you don't hit him, cage enters his recovery frames and is standing there with his face sticking out like a moron, and he eats a full combo.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Range has nothing to do with it.

Of course that's what we are talking about. This is what you said:

"As far as the sweep range baloney. Mileena's D+4 is considered outside of sweep range and solid mileena players already know what that range is and poke people with it from that range like crazy. If I'm reading my opponent correctly I should be able to activate my x-ray outside of this magical functioning range and still have it parry if it's during cage's active timer frames"

So like I said, the way it's set up is great. Any additional range and it's near broke

 

[Tremloc]

So like I said, the way it's set up is great. Any additional range and it's near broke

Explain why it would be broken beyond "just think about it". Think like a designer and justify why it would break the game if cage's xray worked like I'm suggesting.

Either way it is what it is but I'm enjoying our discussion.

 

[RWDY Nori]

At close range, it parries the following: lows, throws, mids, highs, projectiles, other x-rays

Now, you are suggesting it should do this at midrange also, right at Mileena's/Sonya's D4 range. In theory, what you are saying is, an iAF by Kitana at MID RANGE should be hit by X-Ray also. Does this make sense to you?

If you are suggesting it should be physical hits only, at any range, I suppose I can agree w/that. But for certain, not projectiles

 

[Tremloc]

If you are suggesting it should be physical hits only, at any range, I suppose I can agree w/that. But for certain, not projectiles

This is exactly what I've been saying for 3 posts now.

 

[Geotakku]

Johnny Cages Xray should stay how it is, no extra range, shorter range, or extended time period. It's fine,.. :taz: so what if he can't parry an attack at sweep range..

 

[Tremloc]

Johnny Cages Xray should stay how it is, no extra range, shorter range, or extended time period. It's fine,.. :taz: so what if he can't parry an attack at sweep range..

did you even read the discussion? why do you feel it's fine? justify why it's ok for him to be unable to parry an attack at sweep range.

 

[evansgambit]

did you even read the discussion? why do you feel it's fine? justify why it's ok for him to be unable to parry an attack at sweep range.

Tremloc is correct on the call. The way Cage's X-Ray is designed, should parry all attacks, for simplisticity let's say "non projectile" that makes contact with his active hitbox for those brief moments. That's the way traditional parrys should work.

Giving Cage the ability to also parry projectiles, which are themselves an extensive of the opponent's hit box, IS A BONUS. A bit ridiculous, if the projectiles hit box is no longer in reach of the opponent's hit box, but the opponent is in sweep range.

Having said this, should be an easy fix. During Cage's X-Ray, if opponent move state = Projectile, check for distance, if beyond sweep, X-Ray Counter = Fail.
Else, if opponent move state = Non projectile, X-Ray counter = Success. That's the way it should always have been.

There shouldn't be any doubts about Cage's X-Ray. And Tom Brady knows this, as mentioned in his video. Tom I completely disagree with how NRS has handled the coding here also.

There's nothing wrong with having Cage's X-Ray being invincible, its not like he can chip you to death with it. In principle, runs the same risk as any other X-Ray in the game. Activate it, and the opponent can just block on reaction, well in this case, not commit to a move. I think it deserves to be almost invincible, because its so unsafe on block.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Cage's X-Ray should just parry all physical attacks. Projectiles is just silly

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Honestly, how often does anyone even have 3 bars with Cage? I generally blow mine on shadow kicks and FBs to keep pressure. The 52% x-ray is great, but I rarely get the opportunity to use it. It's a good gamble, but it's a gamble. Most smart players watch JC's meter as well if they're pressuring him.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Honestly, how often does anyone even have 3 bars with Cage? I generally blow mine on shadow kicks and FBs to keep pressure. The 52% x-ray is great, but I rarely get the opportunity to use it. It's a good gamble, but it's a gamble. Most smart players watch JC's meter as well if they're pressuring him.

I have meter quite often. I usually save it for breakers since I don't really feel Cage needs meter to win. And I have a very high ratio of hitting my x-ray. I wait for a crossup, as most players cross you up and already dedicate a punch/kick.

 

[THTB]

Makes sense how it works. When I first saw it, that's what it appeared to be...just being spaced well.

The design behind the parry is totally understandable...for Cage to be really destructive up close. That's the only reason why it works the way it does.

 

[HadesWTF]

I have meter quite often. I usually save it for breakers since I don't really feel Cage needs meter to win. And I have a very high ratio of hitting my x-ray. I wait for a crossup, as most players cross you up and already dedicate a punch/kick.

I hit the xray a lot too, surprisingly enough. Really I just bait them into it. Its a fun mind game. Plus if you get it, it's free 50%.

I do blow a lot on EX Flipkick and Shadow Kick though.

 

[Tremloc]

Cage's X-Ray should just parry all physical attacks. Projectiles is just silly

Yes.

I haven't tested this, but is it possible to jump kick JC out of his xray if you start your jump outside of sweet range?

From what I've seen in the videos any move that is started outside of sweep range and either has enough range to contact JC (mileenas D4) or moves the player forward during the move (raidens B3,1,2?) will stuff cage's xray. That should also mean that you can jump kick him out of it if you start it outside of sweep range.

 

[Tremloc]

Makes sense how it works. When I first saw it, that's what it appeared to be...just being spaced well.

The design behind the parry is totally understandable...for Cage to be really destructive up close. That's the only reason why it works the way it does.

I don't understand this. You have to physically hit cage for the xray to activate, which already means you're up close...

 

[Jim]

Thanks for the info Tom, never noticed this but very interesting nonetheless.

I have a question though, have you noticed the X-ray having 1 or 2 frames of invulnerability on start up where Cage can't be hit but won't parry anything?

Here is an example: http://www.twitch.tv/ggslive/b/294050786 at 2:20 or so

I've had this happen a few times with jump kicks too but it might be the distance thing shown in your video in the top post. In this one Kitana is clearly in range. It would be hard to be any closer lol.

I spoke with Paulo a little bit at FxS and that he doesn't believe Johnny has anything that should prevent him from Parrying like that (invulnerability).

The first thing I did after watching Tom's video was pull up this video and rewatch it. I'm glad other folks remember it. Yeah after watching it a few times the down 1 connects right as the X-ray is activated. This is different than what was happening in Tom's video. In Tom's video the health is taken away, in the Galloping Ghost video Cage has no health any hit at all would kill him. The down 1 did 0 damage and wasn't parried. My guess is if you activate on the frame a hit connects you get that weird neutral state of no hit/no x-ray.

Sorry Dizzy, you still have to be pissed at MK9 for that loss.

 

[Shadowfire]

At least this is consistent, by like the other guy said, WTF is up with the invulnerability frames on startup? I got hit by a jumpkick as i did my Xray and it acted as if the jumpkick was blocked, i took no damage and the other guy didnt get xrayed.

So that explains how I once bounced Scorpion's teleport punch into the air with my face. I just thought I was particularly manly.

I do think this needs to be fixed as it seems more like a bug than anything.

I've heard from a Jade player that you can hit Cage out of his X-ray at max range with her staff.

 

[Dizzy]

Incase anyone wondering after doing some extensive testing I have concluded that JC has 1 frame of invulnerability on start up. I don't have anything to record it at the moment but might do a video in the future.

 

[Shadowfire]

Does anyone know if using X-ray on wakeup messes up parry frames by adding invincibility?

Also I'm with Nori on this and think Cage's X-ray is already amazing and shouldn't have its time or range extended. It does what it's meant to do fantastically. I was overjoyed when I found out it doesn't work like a Capcom/SNK reversal, in that it will even counter non-physical hits and throws at point blank. You can't really ask for better.

Come to think of it one of my most hilarious wins was by catching a Noob's wakeup X-ray at close range with the parry, he was not pleased.

 

[leek]

I got hit with no parry at least 3 times by kaysik(my buddy). By a ji-kick, and shoulder twice(nightwolf).

sort if messed up to be honest, but whatever.

EDIT: does it say "wakeup" when you perform the xray on the ground?