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Guide - Stunt Double Please delete this thread, as I don't know how & I've made a new and much better one

Biologic

Noob
This thread is out of date, please refer to the new one; http://testyourmight.com/threads/the-complete-jc-stunt-double-guide-10-4-15.56439/

Mods please delete this thread, as I don't know how

Pressure

Because JC's pressure is actually quite complex this is going to be broken up into parts


Part 1 (Strings)

1,1 1,1,3 & 1,1,4

1,1 is 0 on block, 8 frame start, not only is this string very fast, making it a great punisher, it's speed and 0 recovery time on block make it fantastic for mix ups, you can throw out a F2,4(Overhead) or any other string right after a 1,1 or continue the string into either 1,1,3 (Low) for a mix up off F2, or 1,1,4 which is zero on block leading to a similar situation, you can even go in for another 1,1 or a grab

F2,4
F2,4 is an overhead started leading into Johnny's most common midscreen meterless combo for 24% back into a nut punch and more pressure, it's 14 frames start, so pretty slow, but it moves you across the screen pretty far. This is a string a lot of JC players are going to rely on a little to much, most of the time when someone goes against Johnny, they're going to be looking for this string, especially since JC doesn't have any low starters, you should take advantage of this by using 1,1/other strings and pokes more, and only occasionally using F2,4 when you think your opponent is going to block low

3,3,3
3,3,3 deals the best chip (3%) of all of Johnny cages strings, while still being cancalable into nutpunches and mimics, this string is fantastic off jump ins or for good guaranteed chip after a nutpunch, especially in conjunction with mimic canceling

B3,4 & B3,4,3
B3,4 is most useful in corner, where almost every string can lean to a combo off a mimic shadow kick, & a few select strings can even be combos of a mimic cancel, B3,4 can actually cancel into a Mimic rising shadow and actually connect for a combo starter, not to mention it's very + on block, and in addition to this still the full string B3,4,3 does the most chip of all of Johnny's strings (3.75%) ends in an overhead, and is safe on block (-2)

F3 & F3,4
F3 is 9 frames start and more importantly, moves a good distance forward, making this one of Johnnys best wiff punishers, if not his best, it's also a great footsie tool, and since it can be mimic canceled, it's also a great way to put on & continue pressure, F3,4 isn't quite as useful since it can't be canceled, it moves you forward considerably, so it can be used to wiff punish, but because it's -8 on block, you will eat a full combo if you slip up and they block it, so beware!

Extra
His X-Ray is +15 on block and it's an overhead


Part 2 (Mimic Canceling & Force Balls)
Activating Mimic itself requires 42 frames, during this period you cannot use any strings or move, but you can use a rising shadow or shadow kick almost immediately upon activating mimic, this is how you make activating mimic safe.

Mimic Canceling Strings
You can also cancel most of JC's strings into a mimic cancel, making you plus on block, though the cancel itself is can be interrupted by some special moves (Like Kung Lao's vortex) it's fast enough to actually trade with kung lao's spin, meaning there's at worst, a 5 frame gap (Depending on the string)
(It's also important to note that you can mimic cancel pokes as well)

Active Mimic shadow kicks
So while mimic canceling is an important part of JC's pressure and is something you'll need to learn, there is a 5 frame gap or more (depending on the string) between the string itself and and the performing of the shadow kick that makes it safe. However if you already have mimic activated, and don't have to take the time to cancel into it, then your opponent has one option, block, because some of your strings are up to +6 after a mimic shadow kick lands, allowing you to move into a 1,1 f3 or even a D4

Rising shadow pressure & hit confirming
If it's not enough that JC is + on block after mimic shadow kick his EX rising shadow hits twice, the second hit being an overhead forcing the player to block high, but what's ridiculous about this move is it's recovery time, while the second part of the move is still coming out (Meaning the overhead) you can actually move around, infact it's so plus on block you can actually land a free jump in on your opponent, even against Kung Lao (So you could actually do; jump in 1 (1.25%) 3,3,3 (3%) EX Rising shadow (3.5%) jump in 1 (1.25%) 3,3,3 (3%) EX Rising shadow (3.5%) jump in 1 (1.25%) 3,3,3 (3%) for 19.75% of guaranteed chip). If the EX Rising shadow lands (or even just the overhead part), it's easily confirmable into a nut punch combo. Rising shadow also opens up the door to a more damaging Johnny, and potentially a more respectful, block happy opponent, seeing as you can confirm any combo other than 1,1,4 & 1,1,3 (Works on Males but not females) into an easy 30% combo back into the same exact nutpunch scenario

EX Force Balls
EX Force Ball are a good, occasional, mix up/alternative to mimic cancels/shadow kicks, they're +3 on block, though they can be crouched under, and interrupted, EX Forceball is best used to buy time while waiting the 5 seconds for mimic to recharge, so you can go back into mimic cancel pressure up close


Part 3 (Corner Pressure)
In the corner Johnny actually gains a few more tools as well as more hit confirmable options

Mimic Shadow Kick hit confirm
In the corner, a landed mimic shadow kick can be full combo'd into (example; Mimic Shadow Kick D1 1,1 1,2 1,2 1,1,4 xx NP) so at any point if your opponent lets go of block, or you fail to hit confirm into a rising shadow you've still be granted a full combo into nut punch.

Mimic canceling strings into corner combos
We briefly went over the fact that you could actually cancel some strings into mimics and actually land the mimic kicks themselves, creating low damage 2 hit combos midscreen, however in the corner these strings lead to full on punishes below are 3 examples of strings that can do exactly this;
F3 xx Mimic Cancel xx Shadow Kick (9 frame wiff punish)
1,2 xx Mimic Cancel xx Shadow Kick (8 frame punish)
B3,4 xx Mimic Cancel xx Shadow Kick (Very + on block, leads to the most meterless damage)

So while all almost all strings can lead to combos after a mimic shadow kick, only a select few can be mimic canceled into & still land a connecting shadow kick, further more B3,4 is actually unique in that it can actually be canceled into mimic rising shadow, which no other string can, so for example; b3,4 xx Mimic xx db1, 4 xx db1, NJ1 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,1,4 xx bd3 for 45%


Part 4 (Nut Punches)
Why end in nut punch? Say I end a combo with shadow kick, or rising shadow for 1% or 2% more damage, seems to make sense considering you've done more damage and gotten quite a bit of screen carry right? Wrong.

3 reasons hit confirming Nut punches is important
All of your combos should end in nut punches for several reason;

The first, so they don't get away, every time you land a shadow kick or end a combo with some other move, you're giving your opponent the opportunity to wake up, or retaliate, you don't want this.

The Second, you actually do more damage if you end in nut punch, how? through chip, say you use the standard f2,4 d1 f2,4 xx db3 combo for 24%, now that they're stuck in the nut punch hit recovery you can start up any other string, 3,3,3 perhaps, which gives you 3% damage on block, it also opens the opponent back up to all of your mix up options for even more damage, or a whole combo/nut punch back into the same exact situation

The Third, it builds meter, your opponent is going to have to block after a nut punch, so in addition to getting that chip damage, you're building up your meter as well (about 1/4th a bar for landing the nut punch and 1 blocked string!)

Conclusion/Video Guide
The above guide only serves to give you the many pressure tools at Johnny disposal, below is a video guide for those who need a visual refrence, it's up to you to mix up these options and catch your opponent off guard!

Video Guide;

Footsies, Zoning, & Wake Up options
Might be hard to believe, considering everyone thinks Johnny Sucks, but he's actually pretty scary midscreen. Before we get into this I'd like to remind everyone that you can cancel mimic midscreen without needing to put on pressure.

Shadow kick
Shadow kick is 11 frames start up, (Jacqis machine gun is 14) can't be neutral ducked, is plus on block, reaches almost full screen without MB, you can throw 2 of them back to back in almost immediate succession for a near full screen frame trap guaranteeing you 3.76 chip and almost 1/3 a bar of meter, not to mention it's pretty hard to jump over. This move controls a ridiculous amount of space, while it's up, most players are scared to even move once you're in range, this move come out faster and is harder to dodge than almost every other projectile in the game, it even offers a knockdown on hit giving you the advantage in the midscreen footsies bout. It's even scarier in conjunction with rising shadow for anti-air & safe pressure on block into an F3

Rising shadow
Rising Shadow is one of the best anti-air moves in the game, it has good reach, moves forward slightly to catch bad jump ins, reaches higher than any characters jump, can be full combo'd into nut punch for pressure [DB1 xx rc xx f2,4 d1 f3 xx bd3(26% 1 clone)], can be Ex'd tor free pressure on block, making it a great footsies tool, & can be combo'd into with a mimic shadow kick for unbreakable damage. Just like the shadow kick, this move makes people afraid to jump in.

Forceball
Forceball is most useful while mimic is active, most players are going to play it safe to avoid eating a shadow kick or rising shadow, so throwing forceballs actually becomes a much safer more viable option, not that it was a bad one to start, forceballs are a 21 frame start, not bad but not great, they're 2% on block, and the EX variant is 4% on block & +3, so they definitely have their use. Use them to bait your opponent into doing something that will get them punished by your mimic as well as building meter.

X-factor mode
Unique to JC and so far under utilized, is his x-factor mode, when JC falls to 5% health or lower he gains roughly a 20-25% buff to the damage of all of his specials & a 1% buff to his throw, his EX rising shadow (Without mimic) will move all the way up to 6% chip on block, & 23% on hit, shadow kicks move up from 7% to 10% damage, exc, if you didn't zone before you have all the more reason to do so now, you'd be surprised at how often you actually get the opportunity to use his x-factor, especially when you're conscious of his health and how close he is to having it.

Wake ups
Anytime you get knocked down, you need to try and make sure you have Mimic up, if you haven't realized already mimic management is critical to playing JC, and his wake up game is no different. Wake up shadow mimic kick is ridiculously good, it comes out instantly, requires no meter, is safe on wiff, plus on block, gives you screen carry on hit, and beats out most normals thanks to the space it creates between you and the opponent, JC is very hard to pressure off wake up thanks to move alone, and you still have the rising shadow option for anti-air off wake up to boot

Conclusion/Video Guide
Mimic is a 5 second cool down for a reason, it opens up doors to ridiculous footsies, great zoning, godly wake ups, great pressure, great combos, and more, drop A-list, pick up Stunt Double, and start working on your mimic Management

Footsies, Zoning, & Wake Up options video guide coming soon

Optimal Combos
I plan on filling in all the below with combos.

Key:
Green=Doesn't require Stunt Double
Yellow=Requires Stunt Double
Cancel=Mimic Cancel combo

Midscreen

F2,4 d1 F2,4 xx db3 (23%)
Overhead Starter


DB1 xx rc xx f2,4 d1 f3 xx bd3 (26% 1 clone)
Anti-air

1,1,3 xx db1 xx rc xx f2,4 d1 F3 xx bd3 (31% 1 clone)
8 frame punish/low start

f2,4 d1 F3 xx db1 xx rc xx f2,4 xx bd3 (31% 1 clone)
Overhead Starter

B3,4 xx Db1 xx rc xx f2,4 d1 f3 xx bd3 (32% 1 clone)
Hit confirm off mix up

F3 xx db1 xx rc xx f2,4 d1 f3 xx bd3 (30% 1 clone)
Distance Closer/punisher


1,1,3 xx MB bd3 f2,4 d1 F3 xx bd3 (31% 1 bar)
8 frame punish/low start

F2,4 d1 F2,4 xx MB db3 f2,4 xx bd3 (34% 1 bar)
Overhead Starter

B3,4 xx MB bd3 f2,4 d1 f3 xx bd3 (31% 1 bar)
Hit confirm off mix up

F3 xx MB bd3 f2,4 d1 f3 xx bd3 (30% 1 bar)
Distance Closer/punisher



db1 xx rc xx f2,4 d1 f3 xx MB bd3 f2,4 xx bd3 (37% 1 clone, 1 bar)
db1 xx rc xx f2,4 d1 f3 xx db1 xx F3 xx MB bd3 f3 xx bd3 (42% 2 clones, 1 bar)
Anti-air

1,1,3 xx db1 xx rc xx f2,4 d1 F3 xx bd3 (40% 1 clones, 1 bar)
8 frame punish/low start, might be a better version of this

f2,4 d1 F3 xx db1 xx rc xx f2,4 xx MB bd3 f3 xx bd3 (40% 1 clones, 1 bar)
Overhead Starter

B3,4 xx Db1 xx rc xx f2,4 d1 f3 xx MB bd3 f2,4 db3 (41% 1 clones, 1 bar )
Hit confirm off mix up

F3 xx db1 xx rc xx f2,4 d1 f3 xx bd3 (40% 1 clones, 1 bar)
Distance Closer/punisher



Corner Combos


f2,4 d1 nj1 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,1,4 xx bd3 (33%)

f2,4 d1 4 xx db1 4 xx db1 nj1 1,1,4 xx bd3 (45%, 2 clones)

(Cancel) b3,4 xx Mimic xx db1, NJ1 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,1,4 xx bd3 (37%, 1 clone)
(Cancel) b3,4 xx Mimic xx db1, 4 xx db1, NJ1 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,1,4 xx bd3 (45%, 2 clones)

(Cancel) F3 xx Mimic xx bf4 d1 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,1,4 xx bd3 (37%, 1 clone)

(Cancel) 1,2 xx Mimic xx bf4 d1 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,1,4 xx bd3 (36%, 1 clone)


1,1,3 xx MB bd3 NJ1 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,1,4 xx bd3 (35%, 1 bar)
 
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Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Wow... Well I'll be damned.

After messing around just now I think I just found something else that's weird. By trying to get 2 mimic shadow kicks out as fast as I can, the single clone does the shadow kick twice, while still leaving me with one clone. Has anyone else noticed this? You said "I don’t recommend doing often though, as you’ll want the mimic for the footsies & mind games" so I think it's different than what you mean.

Maybe its something people already know about too, or maybe it is what you're talking about. Could be a glitch, since it doesn't work 100% of the time. You'll see in the video sometimes the clone just disappears. Could just be results from inputs being too slow.


 
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Biologic

Noob
WHAT^ O_O It looks like it worked when you stepped forward a tiny bit.
What console is this?
 
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Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Its on PC. Need to record some more. You can even cancel clone ex db1 into an aerial shadow kick. This has to be a bug or something. Give me a second to upload.

You can also wait until the exdb1 clone hits the ground to send it into a shadow kick...
 

Biologic

Noob
Its on PC. Need to record some more. You can even cancel clone ex db1 into an aerial shadow kick. This has to be a bug or something. Give me a second to upload.

You can also wait until the exdb1 clone hits the ground to send it into a shadow kick...

It's not working for me at all & I've tried quite a few times, wondering if it's only on PC? (I'm on xbox)
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Awesome. Hopefully it makes our Johnny a tier higher than yours.
> : D

(Processing time takes forever when uploading from a phone X__X)
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Alright, here's some more apparently PC specific tech for everyone.

Like I said, you can even wait for the ex db1 clone to hit the ground to get a full length shadow kick from him. We full noob saibot now, I guess...

 

Frosted 57

Reforming Lurker
I know it wasn't the main point, but you mentioned enhanced straight forceballs being plus on block, but in a blockstring on reaction anyone can crouch and let go of block to avoid the second one and full combo punish them. Just a side note.
On the main topic, this is pretty neat.
 

Biologic

Noob
I've tried to find more combos I can mid cancel & continue to combo into, this could make the chances of doing such combos a lot higher, because right now the only mid cancel combo I have is the (Corner) B3,4 xx Mimic xx Rising Shadow, 4 xx Rising Shadow, NJ1 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,1,4 xx NP (45%) combo, if we could activate Stunt Double more easily, just like on pressure strings, he'd be a god.

Either way I still think mimic pressure cancels make him ridiculous, we'll see what happens once everyone gets a hold of this though
 

Biologic

Noob
I know it wasn't the main point, but you mentioned enhanced straight forceballs being plus on block, but in a blockstring on reaction anyone can crouch and let go of block to avoid the second one and full combo punish them. Just a side note.
On the main topic, this is pretty neat.
That's true, if they block the first one aren't they jailed into the second though? If that's the case then there's still a safe mix up game using 1,1,3 (Because 1,1,3 can be mimic canceled)
 

Biologic

Noob
Alright, here's some more apparently PC specific tech for everyone.

Like I said, you can even wait for the ex db1 clone to hit the ground to get a full length shadow kick from him. We full noob saibot now, I guess...

This is straight up not working for me ):
 

Frosted 57

Reforming Lurker
That's true, if they block the first one aren't they jailed into the second though? If that's the case then there's still a safe mix up game using 1,1,3 (Because 1,1,3 can be mimic canceled)
Nope. At any point they can crouch and release block to avoid it. It is the main thing I dislike about Stunt Double tbh.
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
This is straight up not working for me ):
PC (JC) master race. Also b34 into mimic cancel shadow kick is definitely pretty sweet. Only thing I could interrupt with was a perfect d1. 114 into mimic cancelled sk seems uninteruptible giving you safe access to a free mimic on block.
 

FluffyKittenPops

#ONTHERISE
PC (JC) master race. Also b34 into mimic cancel shadow kick is definitely pretty sweet. Only thing I could interrupt with was a perfect d1. 114 into mimic cancelled sk seems uninteruptible giving you safe access to a free mimic on block.
Can you do a video on those strings? I'm reading it but not really understanding. So... 114 db3? On block?
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
You're right, just tested it, still, + on block if you can land it
Remember that you need to test projectiles at point blank, otherwise travel time screws it up. Ex is barely plus, maybe a frame or 2 judging by the jump test.
 

Biologic

Noob
PC (JC) master race. Also b34 into mimic cancel shadow kick is definitely pretty sweet. Only thing I could interrupt with was a perfect d1. 114 into mimic cancelled sk seems uninteruptible giving you safe access to a free mimic on block.
YUP, I've been bodying people with it, I was scared that if I shared it with everyone it was gonna get nerfed lol, I've been reading these forums thinking the whole time "stop using A-list, use Stunt Double"
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Can you do a video on those strings? I'm reading it but not really understanding. So... 114 db3? On block?
I was messing with 114 xx db4 xx bf4. This is using the mimic cancel that the op was about- when you activate the mimics, you can quickly go into a shadow kick or uppercut. Basically just input a shadow kick as quickly as you can after activating the mimic and you'll understand.
 

Biologic

Noob
Remember that you need to test projectiles at point blank, otherwise travel time screws it up. Ex is barely plus, maybe a frame or 2 judging by the jump test.
I did, I was beating out 6 frame upper cut with Johnny's 8 frame jab, I think it's +3, not much, but it's good if say, you use both of your mimics and need to buy time to cancel into mimic again? (;