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General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage 1.12

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
d4~fistbump if the d4 hitted was semisafe prepatch, so I think now it is completely safe. On block it is unsafe, just tried and Kung Lao punishes easily.

Cancel advantage of d4 seems to have changed. d4 into mimic sk is not a blockstring anymore for Stunt Double.

f24, b12 (4 times) then b12121212 nutpunch does 42% for Fisticuffs bumped in the corner.
What??

Damn :( fuck it no big deal
 

RyuKazuya

Jesus is my Lord and Savior!
to be honest i am really happy that his jailing moves are untouched. d4 being -6 is not a big deal at all in my opinion. it educates the player not to press buttons on block.
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
A collateral effect of making the d4 -6... damn. So, no lows in stunt double blockstrings. Sucks.



On hit still +22. On block -6, it was -1.
Cages D4 into mimic load up Straught shadow still jails

The it never jailed in block only when the D4 hits it jails
 

Frosted 57

Reforming Lurker
OK! So Fisticuffs got a HUGE BUFF!!! The speed bag brutality now happens on hit or block.

In all seriousness though, FC still seems bad.
(sorry this post got longer than intended)

It is still really inconsistent on how many hits you got on block(I still doubt that this is fixable). In addition a number of characters got faster armor and can now armor through of speed bag that couldn't before.

The game wide chip nerf hurts Fist Bump since you get less damage from that overall. I wish they just tripled his chip damage with it active on everything not just speed bag, since with the chip nerf in reality it would only be a 20% buff from what it was pre patch. He still has no safe way to set up Fist Bump off of any block string that isn't s4(which is ~-6/7 but can still be punished by ExSpin depending on where KL is in his breathing animation when he blocks:rolleyes:). So in order to activate Fist Bump you still need to sacrifice a bunch of damage/nut punch off of a clean hit, which is rare enough with FC as it is. I also don't get why they removed b2's cancel.

With the d4 nerf his turn ends after an opponent blocks anything except 11(wish it was made like -3 instead of -6). The d3 change may help with that though, will have to wait and see. The speed bag damage buff while FB is active is cute but doesn't really help him. The throw buff in FB is really nice, but FB is still tough to activate so this doesn't seem game changing for him(maybe I'm wrong though).

Also the second Ex Forceball still goes over some characters heads in block strings.
Ex Nutpunch is also now -14 on block up from -12.

This is all just first impressions though, so who knows really.

Maybe in another 6 months they will shave another frame off of speed bag's startup/block advantage. After giving a bunch of characters faster armor and nearly every character a 6/7 frame poke idk what they are so worried about. It would still be average even if they made it 9 frames or -2 on block. *still bitter, so don't mind me*

With Fist Bump active the highest damage I've gotten consistently in the corner on small hit boxes is
f24, b12, b12, b12-12, b12-12-12-12-12xxBD3 for 44%
f24, b12, b12, b12, b12-12-12-12-12-12xxBD3 for 44%
Trying to figure out what the most consistent combo to hit is. I'm sure there are others as you just need some combination of 18 hits of speed bag for 44%.

tldr; To sum up Fisticuffs still has no real pressure. Fist Bump was made worse by the games chip nerf. The Fist Bump throw is really nice, but isn't going to help much since Fist Bump is still tough to get out without a knock down. The d4 being -6 hurts FC more than the other variations but may end up fine with the d3 change. Again, just first impressions.
 
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ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Cages D4 into mimic load up Straught shadow still jails

The it never jailed in block only when the D4 hits it jails
Ah, much better then!

Anyway, the -6 on block for the d4 is noticeable when you do d4~fistbump. It was punishable, but now it feels like even more unsafe...:/
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
OK! So Fisticuffs got a HUGE BUFF!!! The speed bag brutality now happens on hit or block.

In all seriousness though, FC still seems bad.
(sorry this post got longer than intended)

It is still really inconsistent on how many hits you got on block(I still doubt that this is fixable). In addition a number of characters got faster armor and can now armor through of speed bag that couldn't before.

The game wide chip nerf hurts Fist Bump since you get less damage from that overall. I wish they just tripled his chip damage with it active on everything not just speed bag, since with the chip nerf in reality it would only be a 20% buff from what it was pre patch. He still has no safe way to set up Fist Bump off of any block string that isn't s4(which is ~-6/7 but can still be punished by ExSpin depending on where KL is in his breathing animation when he blocks:rolleyes:). So in order to activate Fist Bump you still need to sacrifice a bunch of damage/nut punch off of a clean hit, which is rare enough with FC as it is. I also don't get why they removed b2's cancel.

With the d4 nerf his turn ends after an opponent blocks anything except 11(wish it was made like -3 instead of -6). The d3 change may help with that though, will have to wait and see. The speed bag damage buff while FB is active is cute but doesn't really help him. The throw buff in FB is really nice, but FB is still tough to activate so this doesn't seem game changing for him(maybe I'm wrong though).

Also the second Ex Forceball still goes over some characters heads in block strings.

This is all just first impressions though, so who knows really.

Maybe in another 6 months they will shave another frame off of speed bag's startup/block advantage. After giving a bunch of characters faster armor and nearly every character a 6/7 frame poke idk what they are so worried about. It would still be average even if they made it 9 frames or -2 on block. *still bitter, so don't mind me*

With Fist Bump active the highest damage I've gotten consistently in the corner on small hit boxes is
f24, b12, b12, b12-12, b12-12-12-12-12xxBD3 for 44%
f24, b12, b12, b12, b12-12-12-12-12-12xxBD3 for 44%
Trying to figure out what the most consistent combo to hit is. I'm sure there are others as you just need some combination of 18 hits of speed bag for 44%.

tldr; To sum up Fisticuffs still has no real pressure. Fist Bump was made worse by the games chip nerf. The Fist Bump throw is really nice, but isn't going to help much since Fist Bump is still tough to get out without a knock down. The d4 being -6 hurts FC more than the other variations but may end up fine with the d3 change. Again, just first impressions.
Amen.

I was hoping they fixed speed bag inconsistencies since it is his main and distinctive tool. It' s a shame they haven't.

Also only one frame shaved from b1 startup is irrelevant. There still seems to be soooo much fear to buff the move, when it shouldn't, now that pokes have been generally buffed.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Chip buff on speedbag is useless because everyone can just spam armor on any hit after b12 which is borderline idiotic.
Makes the move completely and 100% useless on block at all times.

At least do the gap after the full 9 hit cycle fffs.

Thanks NRS X__x
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Dear NRS guys:

Put b1 startup back to 9, all speedbag hits on block to -2, eliminate its whiffing inconsistencies (this is not even a buff, it's a fix, we are asking for our move to work properly) and eliminate the gap of the string (or at least put it after the 4th hit or something like this, so we don't have to worry about doing more than two reps...). I also don't get why are you denying FC to have an exfistbump.
Considering he has been quite hurted by the d4 nerf, and the b2 is not special cancelable anymore...is this asking too much? I doubt it.


Hold on , b12 with buff on always did 1,20 chip per punch?
It was 1% chip before. But all attacks besides speedbag hits do less chip now due to general chip reduction...
 
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ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
By the way, guys, exnutpunch still has his old pushback.:)

It is still really inconsistent on how many hits you got on block(I still doubt that this is fixable). In addition a number of characters got faster armor and can now armor through of speed bag that couldn't before.
.
Have you tested which characters that couldn't go through speedbag now can?
 

Frosted 57

Reforming Lurker
Have you tested which characters that couldn't go through speedbag now can?
I know that Erron's command grab is now 13, so that beats it. D'Vorahs's ovipositor rush is now 14 so that trades, not terrible but still. Quan's sky drop was sped up but i think its like 16-18 frames or so, so that still loses. I did not go through every character though, figured I'd wait for the patch notes for that.
 

Tweedy

Champion
Normal Lao spin does not punish it, Tempest Lao EX spin only punishes it when blocked at the closest range possible.

Cassie Cage normal flipkick is the same as Lao EX spin. EX flipkick does not punish it.

Are you sure that Mileena gets a free roll, or are you just looking at the data on paper? Not saying you're wrong, but this move is definitely not a free punish on block.

Edit: Referring to his D3 lol sorry.
 

Goatlegs

Noob
Normal Lao spin does not punish it, Tempest Lao EX spin only punishes it when blocked at the closest range possible.

Cassie Cage normal flipkick is the same as Lao EX spin. EX flipkick does not punish it.

Are you sure that Mileena gets a free roll, or are you just looking at the data on paper? Not saying you're wrong, but this move is definitely not a free punish on block.

Edit: Referring to his D3 lol sorry.
She gets a roll punish if the D3 is done at absolute point blank. Just tested it.
 

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
The B2 nerf and the D4 nerf imo don't hurt Cage much if at all. I think machine gunning D4 is fucking retarded

and for SD Cage with D4 MSK not being a legit block string, It doesn't matter to much because who is blocking low vs Cage?

Once you get them blocking low if for some reason they do block low, you've opened them up for an overhead.

The B2 nerf imo doesn't matter too much when 121 gives you a 100% guaranteed safe setup for mimics/fistbump. The only thing that it changes is no more hard-to-blockable armor breaking 50/50s from B2. You can still do it from 114 but it doesn't work on everyone.

Also since Cage's D3 is 7 frames now, 114 in the corner combos into D3 Nut/EX Nut and it makes F24 into F24 nut punch more consistent in SD and Fisticuffs.