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Jax's F413 String vs Low hitbox

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Just found something interesting about Jax's F413 string. I'm sure everybody knew that you can poke (D1) Jax out of the string into combo, but when I was playing as Cage I managed to D4 him in between the string which launches him into a 24% nutpunch reset.

D4 ruins Jax so long as your character has a low hitbox because everytime he does the string you get it for free which means ur either gauranteed advantage or a combo.

As well as this we found out that Jaxs F413 is mid hitting against low hitbox characters so long as you cross them over first, it doesnt have to be from a JIP it just has to be swapping sides of the screen

The strangest thing about this is that even if the Jax player just does F41 by itself and then cancels into block they can still be punished, the recovery on the string is long enough to allow at least 11 frame moves or divekicks to punish it.

We then went on to see other ways to punish any variant of his strings that are cancelled into block and found that you can just full combo punish him any time you block a F4 so long as you play as 1 of the 10 small hitbox characters below. You dont even need to make a read to punish him you just have to react, this pretty much ruins Jax because alot of the characters that can punish him heavily are regular tourny characters too.

Low hit box characters can punish any of Jaxs F4 variants in these ways, simply block the F4 and then do these:
Kung Lao - standing 1/ combos, spin, 24/21
Reptile - standing 1 combos, d4, dash
Cage - Standing 1 combos, B3, F3
Mileena - standing 1 - standing 2 - standing 4 combos, d4, roll.
Sektor - uppercut, standing 1
Sonya - standing 1 combos, d4 cartwheel, divekick
Jax - 123, 12-Overhead Smash, d4
Kabal - f4, d4 overhead, d4 dash cancel, standing 1, 11b3, enhanced dash, 21 combos
Quan chi - Uppercut, 112 Trance.
Skarlet - standing 1 combos, standing 4, d4

Just to add:

The combo punishers work midscreen only from what we've found so far, however you can still poke out like normal in the corner.


w/ 12 Gauge & Usedforglue
Discuss
 

PND i2 Gaug3

NERF Everything, LEAVE Nothing
Really REALLY this is sooo fucked up

Correction Foxy FULL COMBO for anyone who has a low hitbox if he decides to commit to the f413

Videos coming soon

New Rule after F4 against jax stand up Punish with full combo if jax has no meter



 

PND OmegaK

Drunk and Orderly
Locked and deleted. No one is allowed to know this. :salty:

I assume Sektor gets a full ~40% combo from his standing 1 too.
 

shura30

Shura
pfft eurotrash

btw can't jax get safae by cancelling any of the f4 variations into specials?
this would make his option not really worth interrupting
 

PND OmegaK

Drunk and Orderly
pfft eurotrash

btw can't jax get safae by cancelling any of the f4 variations into specials?
this would make his option not really worth interrupting
His specials are safe if they land, but they aren't going to. The grabs and dash punch are highs (which I'm assuming is the reason this works on the 1 after the f4), and his overhead is incredibly slow, as seen in the video 12 gauge posted.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Locked and deleted. No one is allowed to know this. :salty:

I assume Sektor gets a full ~40% combo from his standing 1 too.
Sektor absolutely gets a free standing 1 combo anytime he blocks jax's F4.

Reptile can standing 1, standing 4, d4, and dash him everytime also.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
do any of the grab specials make f4 safer? for ex f4, df1 or f4, db1?
Against low hit box characters, on hit with f41, if you want to repeat a f4 again, you have to f4 :en overhead smash so that you can't be poked or full combo'd by standing standings 1's and d4's
 

Trini_Bwoi

Kombatant
Noob has a high as hell low hitbox but he leans back like a bawse and the 1 whiffs if he lets go of block. He can poke or stand and 2,1,2 if you're good. Not as easy as Cage has it but it's something.
 

PND i2 Gaug3

NERF Everything, LEAVE Nothing
And people still think jax is s tier lol
I think you need to take full responsibility for that.

but on a reals its just cause people dont understand the ins and outs of jax and dont really know how to play against him

Did you know that out of Jax's 7 dial-a-string combos on block 4 can be parried 3 can be punished with a full combo mid-string which leaves him with 3 completely safe strings...2,1......2,2....2,f2,b1. and the 2 has a 14 frame start-up so do the math.

B-but, he has an armoured move!!!!
that didnt stop ermac from ripping his arms off

This is why the Jax vs Cage match-up is like 7-3 in Cage's favor
Trus me its baad the amount of acrobatics i have to do and the amount of things i have to predict/and have backup reads just to come close to taking a round off Foxy with jax, and the very few times i win all you will ever see if your watching is pure FILTH its too hard to fight

I think it has be worse than that.
whats worse is the sonya match up you know exactly what i mean Used for [ban incoming]
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
This calls for some experimentation...I wish I had Kombat science goggles. Or thinking grenades.

So whose boxes are low enough to pull it off?
 

PND i2 Gaug3

NERF Everything, LEAVE Nothing
its modified to sound like its coming from sonyas pov

so far

cage
sonya
reptile
scorpion (i dont remember which string we tested here)
Ketchup

havent gone thru the full cast for fear of completely crushing my character
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
This calls for some experimentation...I wish I had Kombat science goggles. Or thinking grenades.

So whose boxes are low enough to pull it off?
Sektor - 12B1
Sonya - 114 / Divekick <-- haha
Cage - Any move you want except F4 <-- haha
Reptile - 122

They're the only ones we looked at. Not sure about characters like Mileena Kitana Quan Chi etc (I think they have small enough hitboxes)

But there is definitely at least an 11 frame window to punish any variant of F4 from Jax, maybe even bigger because theres no way to tell how many frames I do Sonyas divekick in
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Sektor - 12B1
Sonya - 114 / Divekick <-- haha
Cage - Any move you want except F4 <-- haha
Reptile - 122

They're the only ones we looked at. Not sure about characters like Mileena Kitana Quan Chi etc (I think they have small enough hitboxes)

But there is definitely at least an 11 frame window to punish any variant of F4 from Jax, maybe even bigger because theres no way to tell how many frames I do Sonyas divekick in
Just tested them all.

Low hit box characters:
Kung Lao - standing 1 combos, spin, 24
Reptile - standing 1 combos, standing 3, standing 2 acid ball, standing 2 invisibility, d4, dash
Cage - Standing 1 combos, b3, uppercut,
Mileena - standing 1 - standing 2 - standing 4 combos, d4, roll.
Sektor - uppercut, standing 1, 21 Teleport.
Sonya - standing 1 combos, d4 cartwheel
Jax - 123, 12-Overhead Smash, d4
Kabal - f4, d4 overhead, d4 dash cancel, standing 1, 11b3, enhanced dash, 21 Dash.
Quan chi - Uppercut, 11b2 Trance.
Skarlet - standing 1 combos, standing 4, d4

Non:
Scorpion
Lui kang
Sub zero
Sindel
Ermac
Kitana
Jade
Nightwolf
Cyrax - Thankfully
Noob Saibot
Smoke
Kano
Stryker
Shang
Baraka
Raiden
Cyber Sub Zero
Sheeva - Didn't even bother to test her.
Kenshi
Rain

According to the guy M2Dave, Jax is an S Teir character, which according to him, are characters with 2 bad match ups, but there are 10 characters that can punish him for using f4, and that list of 10 might not even include his two bad match ups that M2Dave listed.

NOTE: I have put in d4 for characters that have safe options after the D4, but all of these characters can gain d4 advantage on hit.