Question - Jax Jax players, how do I deal with subzero?

[Phanatic]

We all know how subzero players play they're all the same. My question is how do I consistently beat him? That ice clone is a joke. I use wrestler most the time but use heavy to TRY to help me against him but it's not working. Any tips against this garbage repeated cycle?

 

[LuckyStrikeMike]

I generally use Pumped Up against Sub. Air Ground Pound is a great option when jumping over ice balls, regular ground pound hits full screen through the clone, and energy wave helps to reset everything to neutral.

 

[Phanatic]

I generally use Pumped Up against Sub. Air Ground Pound is a great option when jumping over ice balls, regular ground pound hits full screen through the clone, and energy wave helps to reset everything to neutral.

Does it shake the clone and hit him too?

 

[Predannok]

Does it shake the clone and hit him too?

it doesnt affect the clone but will hit subzero BUT sub can just jump this. Against grandmaster sub I ALWAYS take heavy weapons: the machine gun will break the clone and hit him , if the rocket launcher trades with ice ball you will get frozen but subzero will take 12% and from fullscreen he wont be able to stand up and run up quick enough to combo of it.

 

[NurzBenny]

I've been employing the pick someone else strategy as of late.

 

[Phanatic]

it doesnt affect the clone but will hit subzero BUT sub can just jump this. Against grandmaster sub I ALWAYS take heavy weapons: the machine gun will break the clone and hit him , if the rocket launcher trades with ice ball you will get frozen but subzero will take 12% and from fullscreen he wont be able to stand up and run up quick enough to combo of it.

The machine gun helps but lately not for me because when I do it subzero just slides under it and is in my face then just clones again to close the gap until I'm in the corner

 

[Phanatic]

Bump

 

[Predannok]

The machine gun helps but lately not for me because when I do it subzero just slides under it and is in my face then just clones again to close the gap until I'm in the corner

you can mb superman though hes clone when its right in your face like in the corner

 

[Circus]

Sub owns Jax.
The 6% that the machine gun does isn't worth the risk of being frozen by an ice ball trade that leads to close to 25% and a corner carry.

In the corner, he gets wrecked obviously. You could punish all clone cancels on block except F4xxClone with an ex overhead dash punch combo. You could also heavily punish B2 and slide, but it's rough. Without meter it's like lolbad.

I'd say it's one of his bad matchups imho.

 

[Smarrgasm]

You dont...

*Hides behind ice clone from barrage of jax players*

 

[DarkPage]

Pumped up for sure,
The ground pound can both deal with ice clone, and duck ice ball if timed right.
Carefully use, the projectile, to keep him on his toes, and build Meter for armor, and when in, put he pressure on.
This will work for most subs, better ones will take more patience.

 

[AK Stormthegates]

yeah going pumped up is important in this matchup. Other than that play patient and try to EX OH punch punish on b2 and any form of string into ice clone. Its a REALLY hard matchup but winnable.

 

[AcMilan91]

Is b2 negative and punishable ?

 

[RM slacked]

Is b2 negative and punishable ?

It's highly punishable, especially if you wind it up to get the juggle.

 

[Predannok]

btw hes ice ball do no chip damage u can just him let spamm them till he tries to throw the ice clone and stop him with the machine gun. Grandmaster Subzero is the kind of character that forces you to play his game so gotta be patient with jax going in.

 

[AcMilan91]

It's highly punishable, especially if you wind it up to get the juggle.

What do u mean,how to check if some move punishable or no?

 

[Predannok]

What do u mean,how to check if some move punishable or no?

there are 2 ways: 1st way : Go to training room choose the character and look at his framedata in the strings and kombos menu ,look at the string and look at the "block advantage" on the right side of the screen. Everything -9 and above (-10 -11 etc) is punishable with a string that has atleast 7 frames of startup. You can punish something that is -6 with a 6 frames special(must be done quickly ). With kung laos( tempest) EX spin (4 frames) you can punish anything with that is -5 or even -4.

Keep in mind you need 1 frames to release block before a string comes out so a 6 frames punch when you block is 7 frames BUT this doesnt apply to specials thats why u can punish -6 stuff with 6 frames specials .

2nd way : go to training room choose ur character (jax) and the character u want to check (subzero) -> pause go to "Ai options" and switch from "costum" to "record AI" now u can control the player 2 character you chose ( subzero) and record the any move for exp : record subs b2 and immediatly hold block after you did b2 then press start and now you the Subzero AI should be doing B2 and block and will repeat it. jax has a 5F punisher so use it or try any other string to see what works best.

 

[Bender]

This is the only MU I recently starting switching variations to Pumped Up. It pretty much forces sub to play rushdown, instead of zoning, and we all know Jax should win that game.

Just use pressure strings until you get hime to the corner and look out for sub's MB slide. If you get cornered, try not to panic and wait for sub to come in with the overhead or jump in and use armor to counter attack.

I think that MU is 5-5 or maybe even in Jax's favor. With that said, it's a tedious battle, and I hate the MU. You have to be less aggressive than usual and expect clone at any time.

 

[IrishMantis]

I main both since MK9 whatever that means lol
I also main his wrestler variation in this

But play lame with Sub, do not be overwhelmed, if you drop a combo leave it do not try to capitalize, you will end up jumping ice clone.
Chill out on the f2,1 chill it is an ice clone death trap.
Only zone from 2/3rds of the screen it may not look it but will lose the trade from any closer
also from that distance your safe to make reads on groundpounding Sub Zero trying activate ice clone, if you hit go for the MB Groundpound reset or go more projectile pressure
Sub players love the F2,1 ice clone and back 1,2 ice clone couch block these as you when you do that you get less block stun frames while also block if a SZ player tried to Ice clone and then you can MB Jax OH on reaction
Note since you be hitting Sub at a further range just combo into f3 flying punch after it, as you most of the time not reach with f2,1
For SZ OH IIRC Jax can punish with F3 but the timing is tricky so just do MB OH like i said above because of the distance your f2,3 will most of the time drop. (if he doesn't have ice clone after his OH just dash punch if you have no meter)
Jax can also punish normal ice ball with dash punch.
I'd say go with 11, 2d3, d12 more than f2,3 as there less advancing plus the option off 11 really suits his wrestler variation i know its a high but its fast.
the perfect range for you wanna be is where Sub Zero's OH cant reach and where you can react to him throwing the Ice clone with dash punch.
The more life lead you get the more lame you play, you goal is to get the life lead and make a Sub player make a mistake off sliding, Oh or Ice clone block strings.
Use 2d for anti air i know his 1 is godlike put play it safe plus you can get a dash punch after anti air uppercut
when you got him in the corner after knockdown, run block low to try and bait that Slide, your to close for him to Ice clone and his MB ice smash is -10, if he jumps, boom uppercut!
Note: do not try to NJP him in the corner you are basically given him a get out of jail free card, i say this cause MKX love to this in the corner.
If you catch his slide full combo punish that shit
if you block his f4,2 string on block you get free f21 pressure.

If i think of anymore important stuff ill edit this

 

[Circus]

People are claiming up and down that Pumped Up getting pound will force Sub to change his game, that's not that true against a smart Sub guys.

The Sub could just start primarily throwing Ice Balls and doing less ice clones. A trade of ice ball and ground pound is still highly in Subs favor for damage and corner carry.

Eventually it'll discourage the Jax from doing to many ground pounds, and this opens up more clones shenanigans. Jax is always the one taking the risks. Doable, yeah, but it's rough to rely on the ground pound as the entire gameplan.

 

[AcMilan91]

there are 2 ways: 1st way : Go to training room choose the character and look at his framedata in the strings and kombos menu ,look at the string and look at the "block advantage" on the right side of the screen. Everything -9 and above (-10 -11 etc) is punishable with a string that has atleast 7 frames of startup. You can punish something that is -6 with a 6 frames special(must be done quickly ). With kung laos( tempest) EX spin (4 frames) you can punish anything with that is -5 or even -4.

Keep in mind you need 1 frames to release block before a string comes out so a 6 frames punch when you block is 7 frames BUT this doesnt apply to specials thats why u can punish -6 stuff with 6 frames specials .

2nd way : go to training room choose ur character (jax) and the character u want to check (subzero) -> pause go to "Ai options" and switch from "costum" to "record AI" now u can control the player 2 character you chose ( subzero) and record the any move for exp : record subs b2 and immediatly hold block after you did b2 then press start and now you the Subzero AI should be doing B2 and block and will repeat it. jax has a 5F punisher so use it or try any other string to see what works best.

Thanks man i really appriciate ur help,what so u recommend for punish? 11 ex overhead?

 

[Bender]

People are claiming up and down that Pumped Up getting pound will force Sub to change his game, that's not that true against a smart Sub guys.

The Sub could just start primarily throwing Ice Balls and doing less ice clones. A trade of ice ball and ground pound is still highly in Subs favor for damage and corner carry.

Eventually it'll discourage the Jax from doing to many ground pounds, and this opens up more clones shenanigans. Jax is always the one taking the risks. Doable, yeah, but it's rough to rely on the ground pound as the entire gameplan.

Then you Nj over the ice ball and do his air ground pound, or throw his projectile out and block the iceball. Just make good reads (easier said then done, I know, but Jax has the tools to be fine in this MU).

 

[Bender]

Thanks man i really appriciate ur help,what so u recommend for punish? 11 ex overhead?

I think his best punish for slide (slide is super negative) is f21 xx MB Overhead Punch, run, f21, 11, f21 xx dash punch. For a quicker, easier punish (and MB slide punish) I like 123 xx MB Overhead punch, run F3 xx dash punch.

If you don't have meter, I would go 11 and begin going into pressure strings rather than going for the knockdown.

 

[Predannok]

Thanks man i really appriciate ur help,what so u recommend for punish? 11 ex overhead?

11 or 12 or 23 OH dash punch works well 2 has more range than 11 and 12, once the subzero sees ur njp their clone throw and are neutral ducking their ice ball they will try to get you with the low slide ,so bait it out and punish.

I dont understand how people claiming pumped will give you any advantage against sub ... u dont have gotcha grab pressure. Sub will recovery fast enough after a whiffed ice ball to jump the air ground pound and if u time it wrong ull get frozen...

 

[Phanatic]

What did mb stand for