Jaded matchup and general discussion thread

[Zer0_h0ur]

@GLoRToR wouldn't you say the Flawless Block changes last week help out Jade's B343 / B3434 stagger game? It's a much bigger risk for the defender now, on paper. Rarely use jade anymore so, genuinely asking

 

[Madog32]

@GLoRToR wouldn't you say the Flawless Block changes last week help out Jade's B343 / B3434 stagger game? It's a much bigger risk for the defender now, on paper. Rarely use jade anymore so, genuinely asking

Definitely. They now have to commit early to the FB, which means special cancels will catch them

 

[GLoRToR]

@GLoRToR wouldn't you say the Flawless Block changes last week help out Jade's B343 / B3434 stagger game? It's a much bigger risk for the defender now, on paper. Rarely use jade anymore so, genuinely asking

The risk of Jade hitting you with anything is laughable. Bar f2 or 43-exglaive on females, there is literally nothing she can do to the vast majority of the cast off of b3 that warrants the risk of going into her cancels all of which lead to nothing on hit. The +3 high is well and good but what do you do at +3 on block? She's literally just not threatening at all.

 

[Madog32]

Jaded wants you in the corner. Once you're there, +3 is serviceable. D4 will catch jumpers and jails into a B2 or B3/B343 (all of which jail into another vault~kick). B3 will catch MOST counterpokes. B2 as well if you read a jump. Elsewhere, you're spending the meter to stay safe and create distance midscreen to play the whiff punish game.

But Glortor has a point. Jades risk/reward is almost always skewed in the favor of her opponent. Trying to get any combo damage with her is death on block, while most opponents also know that despite how unsafe their attempts may be, Jade will only punish them for 180ish damage. I think her game plan (outside of Emerald Defender) is mostly built around acknowledging this concept, and playing in to the idea that your opponent will not be respecting most of your moves until heavily conditioned. 1 hit staggers into parry until they start hesitating. Then attempting longer B343 staggers. Confirming B343 on hit into F3 staggers. Using meter to stay +3 frequently, and throwing in vault cancels occasionally to keep them on their toes. B343 vault~cancel (on hit) into B3 will catch mashers. Baiting with whiffed parries from outside jump distance.

Gimmicks.

But embrace them! She's fun to use...unless you can only have fun winning.

 

[GLoRToR]

She's fun to use...unless you can only have fun winning.

 

[Madog32]

Unless you're playing for money, can you not have fun AND take some L's? I don't think there are many matchups in this game where Jaded is just shit out of luck. She just has to work harder. But you have to know that going in already.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

But Glortor has a point. Jades risk/reward is almost always skewed in the favor of her opponent. Trying to get any combo damage with her is death on block, while most opponents also know that despite how unsafe their attempts may be, Jade will only punish them for 180ish damage. I think her game plan (outside of Emerald Defender) is mostly built around acknowledging this concept, and playing in to the idea that your opponent will not be respecting most of your moves until heavily conditioned. 1 hit staggers into parry until they start hesitating. Then attempting longer B343 staggers. Confirming B343 on hit into F3 staggers. Using meter to stay +3 frequently, and throwing in vault cancels occasionally to keep them on their toes. B343 vault~cancel (on hit) into B3 will catch mashers. Baiting with whiffed parries from outside jump distance.

Gimmicks.

I do not think it's fair to call what you describe gimmicks. Staggers are staggers, if you're good at using them to keep your opponent off balance, that's no more gimmick than any other mechanic in this game.

But the risk/reward issue is true. Jade requires defensive mindset, patience, and willing to play the entire time of the match.

 

[GLoRToR]

Unless you're playing for money, can you not have fun AND take some L's? I don't think there are many matchups in this game where Jaded is just shit out of luck. She just has to work harder. But you have to know that going in already.

I can't stand how bad Jaded is for a rushdown character. Literally no reason to play that variation over Emerald in any of the prepatch matchups. I haven't touched the new patch yet so who knows, maybe she does better in some of those.

Also, it's not the winning or the losing. If you beat me at a Jade mirror I'll appreciate you but if you beat Jade with Sonya I'll just shrug.

 

[Madog32]

Literally no reason to play that variation over Emerald in any of the prepatch matchups

Not true. Jaded is (and always has been) worth using vs. Emerald Defender

I would also say Jaded is more useful vs NW

Vault is -4 on block. ED has no specials that can keep her safe like this from a string. +3 for meter. I get that that may not be enough reason for you to drop air rangs, but she's playing a different game. She's whiff punishing and harassing in the corner. ED is playing keepaway.

Obviously there are better rushdown characters than Jaded. But she has her utilities and can be more effective vs some characters over ED.

But no matter. She's far more fun (IMO) to use than ED. And if you're playing to have fun,

 

[GLoRToR]

Not true. Jaded is (and always has been) worth using vs. Emerald Defender

You'd think so but I'm just not going to let you glow.

 

[Madog32]

You'd think so but I'm just not going to let you glow.

Lol. I can glow on reaction to your glow



ED definitely loses to Jaded. Its a fun matchup. But beating Jade isn't really anything to brag about. Not even for Jade...

 

[GLoRToR]

Lol. I can glow on reaction to your glow

I'll punish your glow with parry.

 

[Jowabunga]

hey dudez,

I just started checking out Jade a week ago when a friend asked me to pick her up to practice against because he's been having a lot of difficulty against her. I've only spent a couple hours, with Emerald Defender only, between the lab and some practice matches vs. Shang,

So far I'm not impressed, which based on what I'm reading in earlier posts people seem to agree with? I'm not averse to playing tougher characters (Shao Kahn was my first mk11 character) but she feels slow or stubby in a way that makes her feel like a misfit for this mid-heavy/throw meta, maybe moreso than any character I've looked at so far. Thoughts?

 

[Espio]

hey dudez,

I just started checking out Jade a week ago when a friend asked me to pick her up to practice against because he's been having a lot of difficulty against her. I've only spent a couple hours, with Emerald Defender only, between the lab and some practice matches vs. Shang,

So far I'm not impressed, which based on what I'm reading in earlier posts people seem to agree with? I'm not averse to playing tougher characters (Shao Kahn was my first mk11 character) but she feels slow or stubby in a way that makes her feel like a misfit for this mid-heavy/throw meta, maybe moreso than any character I've looked at so far. Thoughts?

Try Jaded instead, it addresses most of her issues pretty well with pole vault and pole vault ex shadow kick. Such a fantastic compliment to her Back 3,4,3,4 string.

This variation has superior damage, better mobility, plus on block pressure and covers her ground game flaws. Emerald Defender tries to mask them with strong air projectiles, but that's kind of mixed.

Jade to me even in Emerald Defender works better at a more neutral range as opposed to full screen so she can harass with all of her buttons and react/punish movement.


Also if your friend plays Shang Tsung, he shouldn't really be struggling with Emerald Defender.

 

[Jowabunga]

Hey Espio,

Try Jaded instead, it addresses most of her issues pretty well with pole vault and pole vault ex shadow kick. Such a fantastic compliment to her Back 3,4,3,4 string.

This variation has superior damage, better mobility, plus on block pressure and covers her ground game flaws. Emerald Defender tries to mask them with strong air projectiles, but that's kind of mixed.

Jade to me even in Emerald Defender works better at a more neutral range as opposed to full screen so she can harass with all of her buttons and react/punish movement.

Cool, I'll check it out - the ground game flaws are what really bother me about her. My usual opponent is a downpoke masher so I have a lot harder time using characters that don't have good mids. My issue with Emerald Defender in particular is she feels overly dependent on the air and low projectiles to mask, like you said, and I'm not really feeling like playing a zoner that can't handle close-in right now.

Also if your friend plays Shang Tsung, he shouldn't really be struggling with Emerald Defender.

He normally doesn't, he's new to Shang. His mains right now are Noob and Sub.

 

[VELL1]

Hello guys,

I am starting to use Jaded Jade. Couple of questions:

1. Once your opponent blocks B3434 - you are +3 I think? But midscreen it really moves them quite a bit from you. What do you use as a follow up after you are plus? Are you guaranteed anything?

2. In the corner B3434 seems to leave you pretty close....what are the follow up after that?

3. Damage from the corner comes in from B343xBF2 D1 21 212. That's a pretty tight link, but I guess there is no avoiding that D1 in the corner?

Thanks

 

[Shale101]

Hello guys,

I am starting to use Jaded Jade. Couple of questions:

1. Once your opponent blocks B3434 - you are +3 I think? But midscreen it really moves them quite a bit from you. What do you use as a follow up after you are plus? Are you guaranteed anything?

2. In the corner B3434 seems to leave you pretty close....what are the follow up after that?

3. Damage from the corner comes in from B343xBF2 D1 21 212. That's a pretty tight link, but I guess there is no avoiding that D1 in the corner?

Thanks

1. I usually follow up with Back 2 amplified pole vault since it does a good chunk of damage compared to anything else she has. Also you have to be careful if they catch on and start ducking the Back 2.....then sometimes I will go for a simple down 4......or sometimes I risk it if I know they are going to continue to neutral duck my Back 2 and go for Forward 4 1.
2. B3434 in the corner I usually follow up with another back3434 ,back343 throw, back3434 pole vault (amplified pole vault does hit in the corner off of back 343), or forward 343/forward 34 pole vault. I feel like her overhead becomes to risky because it's so slow.
3. Good luck with the corner combos...the timing is to crazy for me and I'm old so......I can't do corner combos in MK11 like I could in MKX.

P.S. If you do back 343 run/ meter burned kick you will remain closer to the enemy even at mid screen......

 

[Denny]

Hello guys,

I am starting to use Jaded Jade. Couple of questions:

1. Once your opponent blocks B3434 - you are +3 I think? But midscreen it really moves them quite a bit from you. What do you use as a follow up after you are plus? Are you guaranteed anything?

2. In the corner B3434 seems to leave you pretty close....what are the follow up after that?

3. Damage from the corner comes in from B343xBF2 D1 21 212. That's a pretty tight link, but I guess there is no avoiding that D1 in the corner?

Thanks

Drop her and play Kabal or Sindel. Both characters play the long range game and do it infinitely better, without the whiff issues and the factually worst frame data in the entire game.

 

[VELL1]

Drop her and play Kabal or Sindel. Both characters play the long range game and do it infinitely better, without the whiff issues and the factually worst frame data in the entire game.

I don't know man. I like some characters and dislike others. I don't think I'll ever play Kabal or Sindel.

I am actually having a lot of fun with Jaded Jade. Just looking for ways to improve my game.

 

[Zviko]

Hello guys,

I am starting to use Jaded Jade. Couple of questions:

1. Once your opponent blocks B3434 - you are +3 I think? But midscreen it really moves them quite a bit from you. What do you use as a follow up after you are plus? Are you guaranteed anything?

2. In the corner B3434 seems to leave you pretty close....what are the follow up after that?

3. Damage from the corner comes in from B343xBF2 D1 21 212. That's a pretty tight link, but I guess there is no avoiding that D1 in the corner?

Thanks

No you aren't guaranteed anything. D4 is you safest button in that situation. They can jump it but you won't get punished for it. If they stand block B3434, your D4 won't even reach. You can go for B1 BF3, you are also in perfect range for F2 and 124KB but all these will get beat by jumping. In the corner you don't get anthing more from it because the pushback still leaves you out of B3 range.

But since you are playing Jaded it's always better to finish B343 with BF3amp nitro kick. B3434 is very easy to flawless block and it's punishable without U2. The kick they have to block, it's +3 and it guarantees you D1 unless they stand block it. D4 does reach in that case.

The corner combo you mentioned is tight but practice helps. You'll get used to it. Also to me it's way easier to do 3 D1s before 212.