Jaded matchup and general discussion thread

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Hey everyone. Figure I'd make a thread about Jaded, since 90% of Jade's discussion here seems to revolve around Emerald Defender only.

I personally never really enjoyed playing ED, and actually had more success with Jaded. Her amp run-shadow kick seems great to punish some strings with high pushback because your oponent will, in my experience, mostly try to backdash and bait a whiff punish after that. It is also great vs Skarlet if you manage to get the glow on, since you can be in her face in half a second without having to worry about dashblocking blood tentacles on the way.

Cassie and Erron give me an enormous amount of trouble, though. Everyone else I feel is mostly even or just a slight disadvantage (yes, even scorpion).

Doing pole vault on block then D2 seems to work often too, since people usually try to punish that with a throw. Once they stop trying to throw, you can d1 and staff spin or simply bait a poke then throw/b343 stagger pressure.

Will try to upload some matches later. I am currently grandmaster on this KL on PC and Jaded has proven somewhat efficient as a pocket char (I mostly play Mean Streak Kabal and Heart Pierce Skarlet).

Would love to hear your thoughts and gameplans regarding this variation.

 

[Madog32]

Way more fun than ED!

Blockstring into PV~shadowkick jails off her good strings and is +3. Doesn't really guarantee anything, but a majority of ppl online will press after blocking (maybe they think its the super punishable standard shadowkick?) and you can usually beat their full combo punish attempts with D4, or even B3 in the corner (however, their D1 will beat or trade with those options, so you may need to D1 to condition them to respect the +3 in the corner). Parry also works if you know they're gonna ignore the +3 and attempt to advance.

Blocked ANYTHING into vault is risky, so be careful! B2 and B343 into vault on block both have a gap that allows D2s (I've even seen ppl jump away between the blocked string and the vault), but with the new vault~shadowkick we can at least blow up those attempts for a bar.

Blocked vault into D2 sounds like a death wish to me! That's a 12 frame gap, so against Jacqui, Jax, Liu, etc. you're eating a full combo punish unless they decide to grab (but why would you when you have a 9f mid? lol). I wouldn't do anything but block after that unless you like to live dangerously and know they're going for a high!

Successful parry leaves you in position for 124 KB. Also in range for F2, but they have 6f to jump and avoid that completely.

Vault into vault can be effective vs. wakeups on most characters. In the corner, vault into vault(hold) amplify can beat wakeups and land you a KB.

Successful vault into backdash~NJ2~F21~21~B2~DF4 will full combo most wakeups if timed correctly.

IN CORNER:
This seems to be where she wants to play. Locking opponents down in a corner. D4 on hit jails into B2 (which is hit confirmable into vault, or vault~kick on block for safety back into that whole game). D4 also jails into 43 in the corner. Its also the only place she can reliably get meterless damage (off BF2, or Rang after 43).

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Blocked ANYTHING into vault is risky, so be careful! B2 and B343 into vault on block both have a gap that allows D2s (I've even seen ppl jump away between the blocked string and the vault), but with the new vault~shadowkick we can at least blow up those attempts for a bar.

In my 1500+ games with Jaded I guess I've seen people d2 her out of vault once or twice only. Most people will be conditioned to expect a b2/b343 into (ex) glaive or staff spin, which are risky in themselves but actually create enough fear for players to respect vault. I never see anyone react to vault/glaive/staff spin fast enough to D2 vault on reaction, really.

Blocked vault into D2 sounds like a death wish to me! That's a 12 frame gap, so against Jacqui, Jax, Liu, etc. you're eating a full combo punish unless they decide to grab (but why would you when you have a 9f mid? lol). I wouldn't do anything but block after that unless you like to live dangerously and know they're going for a high!

Many people seem to prefer going into a 14% "guaranteed" throw instead of staggering with their fast mids precisely because they think Jade is going to just block after a blocked vault. Blocked vault into D2 is certainly not to be used lightly, however...

Another new thing I'm trying with generally sucessful results is f34 into vault cancel + throw/another f34/b343 stagger. I swear it gets people by surprise like crazy. Not sure a tournament level player would fall too much into that, though.

 

[Vhozite]

I don't have anything to add unfortunately. I just wanted to say i also find Jaded more fun. Abusing air glaive gets boring fast.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Im currently uploading 2 kombat league sets from today. One vs a decent kabal and another vs a medium cassie. It shows basically everything I just wrote on this thread regarding my playstyle, so watch out kids - there's some yolo stuff inside. Will edit this post once it is up

Edit: here it is!

 

[Man'O'War]

Thought y'all might find this interesting...

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Thought y'all might find this interesting...

Lol infinite bitchslap, I love it

 

[cavemold]

I have trouble with kitana on online .. so her strings start low then go medium stand block right ? That kinda hard for me block online .

 

[GLoRToR]

I have trouble with kitana on online .. so her strings start low then go medium stand block right ? That kinda hard for me block online .

Practice mode is your best friend

 

[Madog32]

I have trouble with kitana on online .. so her strings start low then go medium stand block right ? That kinda hard for me block online .

Kitana only has 1 overhead, and its the 4th hit of a string (excluding hops, of course). Blocking low and reacting to B231D2 should be your primary defensive approach

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

I have trouble with kitana on online .. so her strings start low then go medium stand block right ? That kinda hard for me block online .

You should always block low against kitana, her overheads are very predictable and slow.

As a general tip you should either be in her face 24h/7 with jaded (Jade's mids and stagger pressure are better), or be full screen away counter zoning her with emerald defender (use glow to avoid her fans and start tossing projectiles yourself). Many kitanas in mid range usually toss 1 or 2 fans to bait your glow, then do that ass slam move. At mid range you should be mindful of this and bait their ass slam instead. In the meawhile, try d4 to avoid fans and kick hit them, and mix it with b2 for when she tries to jump out of it. There's really not much else to this matchup (in fan-fare, of course).

 

[GLoRToR]

You should always block low against kitana, her overheads are very predictable and slow.

As a general tip you should either be in her face 24h/7 with jaded (Jade's mids and stagger pressure are better), or be full screen away counter zoning her with emerald defender (use glow to avoid her fans and start tossing projectiles yourself). Many kitanas in mid range usually toss 1 or 2 fans to bait your glow, then do that ass slam move. At mid range you should be mindful of this and bait their ass slam instead. In the meawhile, try d4 to avoid fans and kick hit them, and mix it with b2 for when she tries to jump out of it. There's really not much else to this matchup (in fan-fare, of course).

The mileena version destroys emerald defender. Not as badly as Cetrion or Kabal but still bad.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

The mileena version destroys emerald defender. Not as badly as Cetrion or Kabal but still bad.

I'm not super familiar with the mileena variation matchups but I can DEFINITELY see why it would destroy emerald defender. Best thing you can try is activate glow in-between those sai tosses and bait a teleport from kitana. Still, she has stagger cancels upclose that emerald defender has to guess. So, arguably better counter-zoning with the sais/teleport and better upclose game. Seems like a solid 6.5-4.5 for kitana lol

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

A video of Jaded vs Highborne I recorded yesterday. Seems that it is in favor of Jade, since she has better pressure and can counter most projectiles from kitana with the right use of glow. Discuss!

 

[cavemold]

A video of Jaded vs Highborne I recorded yesterday. Seems that it is in favor of Jade, since she has better pressure and can counter most projectiles from kitana with the right use of glow. Discuss!

That kitana for some reasons ducked . Never duck a jade lol

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

That kitana for some reasons ducked . Never duck a jade lol

Ducking actually helps vs her nitro kicks. You can easily score a d2 krushing blow if you duck both her run-cancel kick and her (unamplified) nitro kick. Also, b343xx run cancel ×× f34xxwhatever catches people who stand block often.

But yeah, for some reason that Kitana couldnt react in time for the 28f overhead... twice.

 

[GLoRToR]

Ducking actually helps vs her nitro kicks. You can easily score a d2 krushing blow if you duck both her run-cancel kick and her (unamplified) nitro kick. Also, b343xx run cancel ×× f34xxwhatever catches people who stand block often.

But yeah, for some reason that Kitana couldnt react in time for the 28f overhead... twice.

Online 28f can catch you offguard if you aren't watching it closely. I can hit quite skilled people once or twice with it but then they start to get wiser to it.

 

[GLoRToR]

A video of Jaded vs Highborne I recorded yesterday. Seems that it is in favor of Jade, since she has better pressure and can counter most projectiles from kitana with the right use of glow. Discuss!

It's not in favour of Jade, it's a 5-5 at the most but I think a good Highborne can give her hell. Zone her and punish her glow with teleport kick and start pressure on her. Don't quote me on it though, Kitana is rare and most of my experience is lab.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

I felt somewhat comfortable with that matchup, so I still think it is (even if slightly) in Jaded's favor. She can be up in her face in half a second with the run cancel nitro kick, so you wont be bullied with seeking sais. Jade can also duck or glow to avoid the fans all day. Another interesting thing to note is that the edenian razors will actually phase thru a glowing Jade, so if you are lucky you can actually catch kitana off guard and punish her when she tries to end her strings with the razors - it is, however, VERY situational, since glow lasts so briefly.

I still obviously need more matches against highborne to truly say for sure that it is in Jaded's favor, but my initial impression on this is very strong: Jade will have little trouble if she pays attention.

 

[Elias6999]

Kitana (Highborn) definitely wins this matchup, Jade Can’t zone and her glow can be baited and punished, and Jade can’t really pressure others well enough, so you won’t get to keep your turn, and when its Kitana’s turn, You will get staggered, Stance cancelled and looped into her pressure (if you get hit by razors for guessing wrong).

 

[Man'O'War]

I think Jaded vs Highborn is heavily in Jade's favor. The seeking sai is 100% react-able and gives Jade a free glow every time or punish with nitro kick. Some of Kitana's best tools are her low poke anti-airs and jump in attacks, but you don't need to jump on her and you can keep her from jumping with b1. If you stay just out of Kitana's jump in range, its hard for her to even get started. I find it best to not try to challenge her staggers and just retreat back into neutral. Additionally, some of Jades moves have so much push-back, you can avoid most of her poke game. Highborn definitely needs to work a lot harder because Jaded just has the tools and abilities to neutralize her game plan.

I think this match shows that if you stay out of her range, its hard for highborn to get going. There's very little risks that Jade even needs to take.

 

[GLoRToR]

I think Jaded vs Highborn is heavily in Jade's favor. The seeking sai is 100% react-able and gives Jade a free glow every time or punish with nitro kick. Some of Kitana's best tools are her low poke anti-airs and jump in attacks, but you don't need to jump on her and you can keep her from jumping with b1. If you stay just out of Kitana's jump in range, its hard for her to even get started. I find it best to not try to challenge her staggers and just retreat back into neutral. Additionally, some of Jades moves have so much push-back, you can avoid most of her poke game. Highborn definitely needs to work a lot harder because Jaded just has the tools and abilities to neutralize her game plan.

I think this match shows that if you stay out of her range, its hard for highborn to get going. There's very little risks that Jade even needs to take.

I can tell you from factual data that you cannot glow against her. You get teleport kick punished and it's her turn.

 

[Elias6999]

There is no way this match is in Jade’s favor. You’re immobilized at long range due to the imminent threat of the teleport, and Jade can’t apply constant pressure like Kitana can, especially if Kitana lands the razors. And no idiot is gonna randomly throw out a sai, so the sai being punishable by glow or shadow kick is irrelevant @Man'O'War

 

[GLoRToR]

There is no way this match is in Jade’s favor. You’re immobilized at long range due to the imminent threat of the teleport, and Jade can’t apply constant pressure like Kitana can, especially if Kitana lands the razors. And no idiot is gonna randomly throw out a sai, so the sai being punishable by glow or shadow kick is irrelevant @Man'O'War

The only time you can glow is if you land something that puts you at enough of a hit advantage to safely activate it and chances are you want to get in on her instead anyway because she's been eating your hp.

 

[Man'O'War]

Let me show you what I'm talking about.
I set the AI to random zoning to show sai is reactable and 100% guarantees a glow.

Kitana's zoning is really easily dealt with by Jade. On top of that, Jades d2 takes away the amplify mind game of the teleport.

I don't really know what you mean about being able to apply constant pressure. Her staggers, pokes, and throw game can be pretty good, but first she needs to get in which isn't as easy when her zoning game can't keep you on your toes.
@Elias6999
@GLoRToR