Jade Buffs

[kcd117]

Jade needs some help, but as a Jade player, I'd hate to see the character reduced to "takes the half a functional brain cell to work" tier in the process of buffing her, and that is exactly what a safe BF2 would mean.

 

[Hellbringer]

If u want more strings viable, look at kung lao, how many strings are usefull? He doesnt need every string to be used or safe. That doesnt mean he sucks just because he uses only f4, f1, d3, etc
Jades d4 is godlike, her b343 string has no gap ane safe, i dont know what the complaînts are of her f21 whiffing on somebody jumping cause i get hit out of the air all the time by that string.
Her wiggle stick reaches half screen.
Shadowkick.
Yeah she doesnt do as much dmg as geras but is that what you want?
I feel jade is good, deffinitly doesnt need buffs

 

[Elias6999]

If u want more strings viable, look at kung lao, how many strings are usefull? He doesnt need every string to be used or safe. That doesnt mean he sucks just because he uses only f4, f1, d3, etc
Jades d4 is godlike, her b343 string has no gap ane safe, i dont know what the complaînts are of her f21 whiffing on somebody jumping cause i get hit out of the air all the time by that string.
Her wiggle stick reaches half screen.
Shadowkick.
Yeah she doesnt do as much dmg as geras but is that what you want?
I feel jade is good, deffinitly doesnt need buffs

Look I get stating your opinion, but don’t go around parading it like its a fact, especially after you misunderstand the character. B3434 has a FB gap (still one of her best tools, shouldn’t be changed), F21 DOES in fact whiff, wiggle stick is -13 and a high, her shadow kick is just okay, does barely any damage, is a high, and EASILY full combo punishable.

 

[Hellbringer]

Look I get stating your opinion, but don’t go around parading it like its a fact, especially after you misunderstand the character. B3434 has a FB gap (still one of her best tools, shouldn’t be changed), F21 DOES in fact whiff, wiggle stick is -13 and a high, her shadow kick is just okay, does barely any damage, is a high, and EASILY full combo punishable.

Yeah but then again, if u read properly i said B343, not B3434.
Want me to show all the times i got hit while jumping?
Wiggle stick is -13 but it reaches half screen, not many characters can punish that if used properly.
Yeah her shadowkick is easily full combo punishable i mean do u want it to be save?

And im not stating things as a fact, im just giving my opinion, or is there any dictatorship in the jade forums?

 

[Espio]

Just because I am the only person who is challenging your list of buffs does not mean I am being "insufferably patronizing".

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting your main character to be top tier, but to claim that "if poor Jade only got these 10-15 buffs that I am asking for, she would be good" is a plainly dishonest argument. You are usually reasonable so I expect better from you than to support Glortor's nonsense. If NRS understand what is good for the game, and I would like to think they do, they are not giving mid tier characters 10-15 buffs, which would result in balancing disasters.

I didn't ask for ten to fifteen buffs. I made three suggestions. I am being reasonable while you are being deliberately dishonest and misrepresentative of information presented by me. If I actually did these things you might have a point but of course I did not. Your tone implied I'm just suggesting stuff without thought which is very obnoxious and has a patronizing tone quality to it. You "challenging me" is based on a very dishonest narrative of exaggeration so the "challenge" is inconsequential.

 

[Afumba]

Yeah but then again, if u read properly i said B343, not B3434.
Want me to show all the times i got hit while jumping?
Wiggle stick is -13 but it reaches half screen, not many characters can punish that if used properly.
Yeah her shadowkick is easily full combo punishable i mean do u want it to be save?

And im not stating things as a fact, im just giving my opinion, or is there any dictatorship in the jade forums?

He isnt saying it should be save, he is implying that Shadowkick isnt that good compared to similar other skills, damage and range-wise. And he just mentioned that cuz you listed it in your list of "great Jade tools" like Shadowkick is something to be proud of. Its mediocre.

You can have your oppinion but coming in here and repeatedly tell everybody "Jade doesnt need buffs cuz mid tier is fine" still makes you look like a jerk as you are totally missing the point. Its not about tiers its about making a character reasonably better. If we go with your logic nobody needs nerfs/buffs cuz outside of the very top players one can somehow manage with everybody. Bio manages with Kano and he is for most people bottom 2-3, this doesnt mean Kano doesnt need help.

Your comparison of Kung Lao is silly. Boohoo we want the tools that we have to work/be usable, how dare we? Man, just stop. If you are good with characters only using 3-4 of their tools, good for you. This still doesnt mean this is how it should be. Tools should be useable, period. Sure if some dont work, fine...but if the majority or even a lot of them are bad then something should be done about it. Not just for Jade but for everyone.

 

[Hellbringer]

He isnt saying it should be save, he is implying that Shadowkick isnt that good compared to similar other skills, damage and range-wise. And he just mentioned that cuz you listed it in your list of "great Jade tools" like Shadowkick is something to be proud of. Its mediocre.

You can have your oppinion but coming in here and repeatedly tell everybody "Jade doesnt need buffs cuz mid tier is fine" still makes you look like a jerk as you are totally missing the point. Its not about tiers its about making a character reasonably better. If we go with your logic nobody needs nerfs/buffs cuz outside of the very top players one can somehow manage with everybody. Bio manages with Kano and he is for most people bottom 2-3, this doesnt mean Kano doesnt need help.

Your comparison of Kung Lao is silly. Boohoo we want the tools that we have to work/be usable, how dare we? Man, just stop. If you are good with characters only using 3-4 of their tools, good for you. This still doesnt mean this is how it should be. Tools should be useable, period. Sure if some dont work, fine...but if the majority or even a lot of them are bad then something should be done about it. Not just for Jade but for everyone.

Her shadowkick compliments her other tools.
But anyways cry some more for buffs and u will get them eventually.

If u knew how to use her tools properly u wouldnt be spending time crying for buffs.

 

[FreshFromTheDeli]

Jade is the most balanced character in the game. Leave her the way she is and she will be fine. Hitbox issues not counting.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

@Hellbringer f21 only sometimes clips you when you jump super late, and even then, it doesn’t allow a kombo, so it’s like 8% damage with no oki followup. Lao and Kabal respectively get 30%+ and 22%+ anytime they graze you, whether you’re jumping, midscreen, or otherwise, and it loops into their insane oki pressure.

The amount of times her staff has passed harmlessly through you far outweigh the handful of times her f2 has clipped you in the air and sent you too far to kombo. As it stands, you can jk all day long and it totally ruins her pressure. Unless I’m scouting it out for that 2~db1 anti-air punish, jumping gets you out of her pressure with minimal risk.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

I play just about every character, to the point where I’ve started just using Random Select. However, Jade is my current main. I feel like this gives me decent insight into what she needs to compete with the rest of the cast. I certainly don’t think she’s as bad as a lot of the Jade community would have you believe, but it’s no secret that she’s outclassed heavily by the current top 10-15 characters.

So here is my current wishlist for the upcoming patch:

• Amplified razorrang should jail from normal rang, and possibly hit mid. Meaning if you block the first rang, you can’t poke while avoiding the 2nd. As it stands, there is no way to utilize amped rang’s +7 on block, since an opponent should never be hit by it. This is my biggest request.
• Assorted hitbox adjustment. As it stands, too many of her attacks whiff for no good reason, especially against aerial opponents. Combined with the slow recovery on most of her moves, it’s too easy for the opponent to just jump at her, avoiding her attack while landing a substantial punish.
• bf2 should be safer on block, possibly -7. It simply doesn’t offer enough damage or utility to warrant being full-kombo punishable, especially considering how often it whiffs. Compared to other characters’ tools, -7 seems totally fair.
• f2 should starts up in 21 frames rather than 28. That’s the same startup as Kabal’s Fatal Blow. For a move as unsafe and with such a big gap, I think 21 startup is totally reasonable.
• b12 should also be less negative on block, possibly -7. For a 2-hit 15-frame string that doesn’t kombo, there’s no reason for it to be full-kombo punishable.
• Glow should affect all ranged specials, including Blood Tentacle, Corpse Drop, and Sand Trap. Not working against those moves totally defeats the purpose of Glow.
• I think 18% is totally fair damage for her b343~bf1(amp) punish, which is unbreakable and ends with a +10 restand. However, I do think she needs the option to go for a damaging punish rather than the restand setup. Perhaps making one of her strings a launcher could help boost her damage without making her restand overpowered.

Some of those are just nice-to-haves. The big ones for me are amp rang jailing, hit box adjustments, and glow working on all projectiles. I wrote this from my phone so I kept it abbreviated, but I can elaborate tomorrow.

Fully agree with number 1. It's insane you can just duck out of that.

Jade needs some help, but as a Jade player, I'd hate to see the character reduced to "takes the half a functional brain cell to work" tier in the process of buffing her, and that is exactly what a safe BF2 would mean.

I disagree. I mean what would you say the purpose of BF2 is in the current state? It's sole viable purpose is extra corner carry damage on OH/Low mixup. That's it. It's a pretty pointless overall built-in move. If it's special, punishable, and does corner carry, make it an optional move and make her base kit viable for her actual game plan, which is defensive game play and picking your opponent apart with precision.

Shadow kick is just fine, it doesn't need any buff.
I think parry should be more in line with LK/Skarlet start up (heard the voice, seen the outstretched hand and gotten blown up so many times), and should do more damage on meter burn.

And I do agree with Glor that B343 should just be straight up 343. The jank that comes with quickly going in to a b343 dial in string is ridiculous.

 

[Afumba]

Her shadowkick compliments her other tools.
But anyways cry some more for buffs and u will get them eventually.

If u knew how to use her tools properly u wouldnt be spending time crying for buffs.

So do other similar moves for other characters. This has nothing to do with what i said either.

You are total lacking any kind of understanding about what people are saying an why. Anyways, keep spewing your garbage attitude all over the place and play the big boy fg hero, pretty sure at some point someone will give you a cookie.

If you knew what you were talking about you wouldnt say she hasnt issues or call ppl out for asking for more usable tools compared to them being useless.

Also hope you do understand the hypocrisy of stating that you are allowed to have your oppinion but on the other hand attacking/calling out others for stating theirs, especially without reasonably refuting anything.

 

[Afumba]

Jade needs some help, but as a Jade player, I'd hate to see the character reduced to "takes the half a functional brain cell to work" tier in the process of buffing her, and that is exactly what a safe BF2 would mean.

I agree, but what if they gave BF2 an AMP that made it safe? Spending a BAR to be safe would be fine i think.

 

[TakeAChance]

I agree, but what if they gave BF2 an AMP that made it safe? Spending a BAR to be safe would be fine i think.

At that point, just make the EX Rang a mid. Keep the unsafe staff spin for corner combos.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I never realized people had issues with b343. But her standing 3 is legit useless, so sure.

Shadow Kick is just a terrible move. I’d rather them just delete it than keep it as it currently is so I’ll never be tempted to stupidly use it. There’s never a reason to not be crouching against Jade when outside f2 range, other than Air Rang, so the odds of actually hitting someone and not getting d2 KB’d are minimal. It even gets beating out by standing 1; it has zero priority. And even if you do manage to land it, woohoo!, you deal 6% with no chance of oki.

It can’t be used to condition your opponent, it deals minimal damage (equal to two d4s...), it has no possibility of oki, and there are better kombo enders. The only useful thing is that it can be used to switch sides with a bar of meter. There’s absolutely no reason it should be that negative on block.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

So do other similar moves for other characters. This has nothing to do with what i said either.

You are total lacking any kind of understanding about what people are saying an why. Anyways, keep spewing your garbage attitude all over the place and play the big boy fg hero, pretty sure at some point someone will give you a cookie.

If you knew what you were talking about you wouldnt say she hasnt issues or call ppl out for asking for more usable tools compared to them being useless.

Also hope you do understand the hypocrisy of stating that you are allowed to have your oppinion but on the other hand attacking/calling out others for stating theirs, especially without reasonably refuting anything.

@Hellbringer does know what he’s talking about, we just happen to disagree. I fight his Lao, Kabal, Kotal, and Shang with my Jade usually 2-3 hours a day, every day (as long as we’re not desyncing every fucking match...). At this point he probably has more experience playing against Jade than just about any other player in the community.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

I never realized people had issues with b343. But her standing 3 is legit useless, so sure.

Shadow Kick is just a terrible move. I’d rather them just delete it than keep it as it currently is so I’ll never be tempted to stupidly use it. There’s never a reason to not be crouching against Jade when outside f2 range, other than Air Rang, so the odds of actually hitting someone and not getting d2 KB’d are minimal. It even gets beating out by standing 1; it has zero priority. And even if you do manage to land it, woohoo!, you deal 6% with no chance of oki.

It can’t be used to condition your opponent, it deals minimal damage (equal to two d4s...), it has no possibility of oki, and there are better kombo enders. The only useful thing is that it can be used to switch sides with a bar of meter. There’s absolutely no reason it should be that negative on block.

I have success with Shadow Kick. It checks the opponents movement. Meter burn Shadow kick should not be unsafe...or maybe the ability point for shadow kick should make meter burn safe. But base Shadow Kick is fine.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I have success with Shadow Kick. It checks the opponents movement. Meter burn Shadow kick should not be unsafe...or maybe the ability point for shadow kick should make meter burn safe. But base Shadow Kick is fine.

I've got to disagree. You're not wrong about what it does, as far as checking movement, but it's never worth the risk. Risking a full-kombo punish to check someone for 6% is never worth it. If you land 5 Shadow Kicks, but then a single kick gets blocked, your damage lead is back to zero. Her d4 is much better at checking movement and still does half the damage a Shadow Kick would do. If they're within f2 range, she has better, safer options to check movement, or just jump-back air-rang. If they're outside f2 range, Jade wants them to come to her, not the other way around. I can't think of any instance where it's worth it to use Shadow Kick, except as an exceptionally shitty 11% 1-bar punish.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

I've got to disagree. You're not wrong about what it does, as far as checking movement, but it's never worth the risk. Risking a full-kombo punish to check someone for 6% is never worth it. If you land 5 Shadow Kicks, but then a single kick gets blocked, your damage lead is back to zero. Her d4 is much better at checking movement and still does half the damage a Shadow Kick would do. If they're within f2 range, she has better, safer options to check movement, or just jump-back air-rang. If they're outside f2 range, Jade wants them to come to her, not the other way around. I can't think of any instance where it's worth it to use Shadow Kick, except as an exceptionally shitty 11% 1-bar punish.

I mean don't get me wrong if they buffed the damage I wouldn't cry lol.
I kind of shelved Jade until the last few days but IIRC most of my SK's in the neutral are hit-confirmed from a long-reaching B2.

 

[GLoRToR]

I just got blown up during the active frames of a string just because the opposing character has a 9f mid launcher and mine has bad normals.
I'm convinced nrs hates Jade.

 

[variable]

I generally strongly dislike calls for buff(s) RIGHT AFTER a damn patch but there's no need to be so rude to folks talking about it. some people prefer theorycrafting to just grinding out games and that's fine, it's literally why we have forums.

I come from Brood War and Starcraft 2 as a viewer and player so my attitude is generally way more focused on figuring out answers rather than asking for them. that being said, brood war has been played for 20 years now and this game won't last more than like 2-3 just by nature of NRS release pattern. I'm all for them making changes just to spice things up, let alone if they can get closer to balance. but seriously it hasn't been 24 hours, I just find it hard to believe anyone could know exactly where Jade stands currently or exactly what she'd need to be better.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

What are you talking about? This thread was made days before the patch was even announced.

 

[Espio]

What are you talking about? This thread was made days before the patch was even announced.

Why read the dates when you can chastise without just cause?