Jade Buffs

[kcd117]

I play just about every character, to the point where I’ve started just using Random Select. However, Jade is my current main. I feel like this gives me decent insight into what she needs to compete with the rest of the cast. I certainly don’t think she’s as bad as a lot of the Jade community would have you believe, but it’s no secret that she’s outclassed heavily by the current top 10-15 characters.

So here is my current wishlist for the upcoming patch:

• Amplified razorrang should jail from normal rang, and possibly hit mid. Meaning if you block the first rang, you can’t poke while avoiding the 2nd. As it stands, there is no way to utilize amped rang’s +7 on block, since an opponent should never be hit by it. This is my biggest request.
• Assorted hitbox adjustment. As it stands, too many of her attacks whiff for no good reason, especially against aerial opponents. Combined with the slow recovery on most of her moves, it’s too easy for the opponent to just jump at her, avoiding her attack while landing a substantial punish.
• bf2 should be safer on block, possibly -7. It simply doesn’t offer enough damage or utility to warrant being full-kombo punishable, especially considering how often it whiffs. Compared to other characters’ tools, -7 seems totally fair.
• f2 should starts up in 21 frames rather than 28. That’s the same startup as Kabal’s Fatal Blow. For a move as unsafe and with such a big gap, I think 21 startup is totally reasonable.
• b12 should also be less negative on block, possibly -7. For a 2-hit 15-frame string that doesn’t kombo, there’s no reason for it to be full-kombo punishable.
• Glow should affect all ranged specials, including Blood Tentacle, Corpse Drop, and Sand Trap. Not working against those moves totally defeats the purpose of Glow.
• I think 18% is totally fair damage for her b343~bf1(amp) punish, which is unbreakable and ends with a +10 restand. However, I do think she needs the option to go for a damaging punish rather than the restand setup. Perhaps making one of her strings a launcher could help boost her damage without making her restand overpowered.

Some of those are just nice-to-haves. The big ones for me are amp rang jailing, hit box adjustments, and glow working on all projectiles. I wrote this from my phone so I kept it abbreviated, but I can elaborate tomorrow.

Those are reasonable changes.

I wouldn't like her overhead to be faster tho. Just a hitbox adjustment so it doesn't go through people jumping would be fine.

They should also raise the nitro kick and amplified nitro kick dmg to give her decent punishes. 11% for a regular one and 16% for the amplified would be fine.

I'd also like her F41 string to be safe on block or have huge pushback bc it is currently useless.

 

[Espio]

Welcome to the dark side Karaoke. I think it's kind of frustrating how people think the character's design is fine when a large portion of the roster has similar speed, ranged buttons that are MID and lead to way more damage or just as much as her high back 2 while not being -13 on block. It wouldn't bother me so much if people didn't pretend like this character is legit unfair when the characters she beats aren't even that high and it's just 6-4's. It's weird when people complain about Jade's staff strings cause there's a con to each and every one of them. Duckable, unsafe high back 2. Back 1, 2 is unsafe and gaps that are interruptible without armor and so on.


I don't want glow touched at all, I like that there's counter play to it.

Staff spin should be safe though, -6 and in the opponent's face. Nobody can complain that you can't check her after it or she's creating too much space with it. If she's not gonna be a strong punish character she would benefit from legit safety.

Forward 4,1 should be -7 and keep the pushback. This gives her a more nuanced stagger game and since it leads to no damage on hit and is 18 frames start up, it's not an abusable string.


I think ex glaive being mid is fine on the second hit. I might play Jaded if she could actually enforce a neutral ducking check at range. We have rushdown characters that look at you too hard and you drop 400 damage (my baby/secondary Baraka comes to mind) and he is granted access to a strong projectile that he can make mid on amplify. It's actually crazy. Different characters, different tools, but her projectile wraps around her so it doesn't come at you immediately like other projectiles so it wouldn't be some dominant out of control projectile.

 

[Vhozite]

Yeah something needs to happen with f41 as that string is literally useless. F4 itself is ok but the ender is garbage. Seems to only be good for catching people trying to whiff punish f4, and even that is just a gimmick.

 

[kcd117]

I think a safe BF2 would be too much tho... with those changes she’d already be able to make people block ex glaive to be + at their face, she doesn’t really need scrubby mixups between D1 or D1xxSpin.

 

[Shale101]

- Fix hit box issues......Her F21 would work so much better if it couldn't be jumped right through
-People complain about her range but it is it really even that good when so many characters have amazing forward advancing normals, combos, and special moves????
-Shadow Kick is a special that won't even go full screen like many other characters have and it's a High. Make it safer when blocked!
-Like others have said make some of her useless small combos safer so there is a reason to use them. F 41 and B 21
-Parry.....since she was built as a keep away character with low damage and no combos how about give her a useful Parry? She sucks up close so this needs to have better frames for start up and needs to last long enough so the opponent actually hits her. LET US HOLD IT!
- Staff Spin should be made useful since its such a pretty looking move but right now can only be used as combo ender because the risk is to high with it now. Also, her corner combo with staff spin should be a littler easier to get. I find it very hard to do regularly.
-Glow needs to work on everything......Shang is just a better character and his zoning out classes her easily so when she tries to get in it makes it impossible......and its not like she can do much when she gets up close anyways. She has built in weaknesses for glow and one of them is that SLOW as hell razor rang that she can't spam like his skulls. People act like glow makes her crazy good. It has a lot of built in recover and its not like it causes damage!!! Not that it should but people act like glow kills them or something......it makes her immune to SOME projectiles. She can be easily punished for it with a teleport or dash special move that most of the cast has! She has built in slowness, unsafeness, and lowest damage in the game. It can't be both ways! Either make her glow work on everything or work on some stuff with better safeness, better speed, and more damage.
- Her second variation with the pole vault and run cancel needs to be made useful. This is trying to make her a rush down character which she isn't so it kind of fails. Make it worth using with better safeness and frames.

 

[M2Dave]

Staff spin should be safe though, -6 and in the opponent's face. Nobody can complain that you can't check her after it or she's creating too much space with it. If she's not gonna be a strong punish character she would benefit from legit safety.

If you Jade players are going to suggest buffs, at least understand the ramifications please. A safe staff spin would make b+3,4,3,4 incredibly powerful because b+3,4,3 xx staff spin beats flawless blocking. Jade would end up with the best stagger pressure in the game between b+3,4,3,4 and b+3,4,3 xx staff spin. Besides, do you realize that no character in this game has a safe, mid and multiple hitting special move that requires no resources?

I can only hope that NRS reads yet pays no attention to these TYM buff threads for the betterment of the game.

 

[GLoRToR]

You had me until that 2nd paragraph.

That's just wishful thinking. I don't have my way and I trust NRS to fix this trainwreck character.

 

[GLoRToR]

If you Jade players are going to suggest buffs, at least understand the ramifications please. A safe staff spin would make b+3,4,3,4 incredibly powerful because b+3,4,3 xx staff spin beats flawless blocking. Jade would end up with the best stagger pressure in the game between b+3,4,3,4 and b+3,4,3 xx staff spin. Besides, do you realize that no character in this game has a safe, mid and multiple hitting special move that requires no resources?

I can only hope that NRS reads yet pays no attention to these TYM buff threads for the betterment of the game.

No, they have combos that involve the same special move twice that lead to 30%+ damage, they have free krushing blows that lead to over half your healthbar, footsie avoiding mid hitting stagger mixup moves that stack reward/reward in their favour and on goes the list what else.
So she'd have a stagger game like Liu off of a mid that's 3 frames worse than Liu's with less range. Boo hoo.
Go back to your Zoning thread and let people at least wish their character was good for a change.

 

[Crimea]

the only way I can see her bf2 being safe if its completely loses the ability to combo of of it in the corner

 

[GLoRToR]

the only way I can see her bf2 being safe if its completely loses the ability to combo of of it in the corner

I can get behind that.
No meterless launchers for anyone.

 

[kcd117]

If current Jade had safe staff spin she'd be at least top 10 rn. If buffed Jade gets it she'll be dumb guys. Just think about how many favorable layers it creates in her gameplan... I don't want to play Liu Kang 2.0.

 

[Crimea]

Fixing her hitbox issues (f21 and FB shouldn't whiff on a jumping characters)
Faster parry, so you actually can use it as a parry and not only as a taunt
F41 safe on block
This is a bare minimum that should be adressed
And nerf top tiers.

 

[Marinjuana]

I just don't get what the fuck they were thinking when they designed some of her moves. Her dash kick does 6% damage, hits high, and only travels maybe half screen. Ok, why is it more punishable than Scorpion's teleport, Shang's Upskulls, Johnny's amp nut-punch, and all of these other moves that do more damage, have more utility in the neutral (other than nut punch), and launch for full kombos? That shit does the same damage as landing two d4's. No special in the game should do so little damage.

Same goes for her bf2. If the opponent isn't literally just standing on the ground, several hits will whiff, putting Jade at disadvantage while only dealing around 4.5%. 4.5% for landing a special move. WTF, NRS? That shit absolutely needs to be addressed in the upcoming patch.

I mean dude Shadow Kick grants punishes and it is a combo ender. That it is useful in neutral and has a KB is a bonus. You amplify it for more damage. And yeah, if you compare simple moves to combo starting launchers then you are going to find it underwhelming.

And BF2 is a launcher in the corner. It leads to significantly more than 4.5%.

Those aren't issues at all with her IMO.

 

[Espio]

If you Jade players are going to suggest buffs, at least understand the ramifications please. A safe staff spin would make b+3,4,3,4 incredibly powerful because b+3,4,3 xx staff spin beats flawless blocking. Jade would end up with the best stagger pressure in the game between b+3,4,3,4 and b+3,4,3 xx staff spin. Besides, do you realize that no character in this game has a safe, mid and multiple hitting special move that requires no resources?

I can only hope that NRS reads yet pays no attention to these TYM buff threads for the betterment of the game.

I understood what I suggested so I don't know why you feel the need to be insufferably patronizing for no reason.

 

[RoboCop]

Bf2 shouldn't launch in the corner. It doesn't feel purposeful (even though it's mentioned in the tutorial) and the timing is too tight to reliably hit online. Even Kitana Prime couldn't land that shit at Evo. And even if you hit it you get a solid 23ish percent damage. Woo!

If you think allowing a non-launching mid-hitting 8% special to be safe makes her overpowered, you must just quit to the main menu when you face 90% of the cast. Yes, it would add to her stagger game, which I think is solid enough already. But no one is going to be winning matches with b343~bf2. You block it, it's your turn. You eat it, you take 8%. Oh no!

As it stands, the move is useless garbage. You can yolo bf2 after a d1 to riskily check your opponent, similar to d1~Kano Ball, but at least Kano can choose to amp on block to help keep himself safe.

 

[GLoRToR]

I understood what I suggested so I don't know why you feel the need to be insufferably patronizing for no reason.

Because TYM. How dare you wish your character was half as good as some of the better ones.

 

[Vhozite]

I actually like butterfly corner combos fuck you guys lol

 

[Espio]

Because TYM. How dare you wish your character was half as good as some of the better ones.

I think the funny part is I said what would be done and people didn't disappoint. "She'd be top ten" so damn what? Lol. People are funny. I forgot Jade isn't allowed to be any better than mid to low mid, but people can ask for buffs for Noob and co who do massive damage and is same tier range as Jade. My mistake.

 

[Arqwart]

-Fix hitboxes, especially F21 not catching people in the air (buff), highs whiffing on duck-blocking opponents (buff), and uppercuts hitting behind people (nerf)
-Normalize Krushing Blow damage / requirements across the roster (this would be a buff for Jade)
-Increase every base combo's damage by 10 (1%) each
-Lower combo damage gained from upward rang by increasing scaling after it (slightly even out the buff from better KBs for ED), but slightly lower its recovery for better general usage
-Lower B1 startup to 9f to be another neutral check
-Make B12 safe if used at an optimal distance
-Make F41 safer through massive pushback to make it its own unique tool (still punishable by dash attacks like Liu kick, but nothing more)
-Make amplified glaive jail on block if the first was blocked
-Lower parry startup to 9f so it's on par with every other parry. Lower hit advantage some so Jade doesnt get as much time to get away after
-Lower air glaive chip and hit damage. Shit's insane
-EDIT: increase Butterfly damage by 20 (2%) and make the corner combos easier
-Give me a variation with Delia's Dance, extended combos, and the ground slam / teleport

Done. She's now fantastic, if not a little too strong, due to the following:

-More usable parry
-Slightly better damage across the board without giving her new combo tools
-More explosive KBs
-Another neutral check with B1
-A tool specifically for pushback
-Glaive jailing if the first is already blocked
-Hitbox shenanigans fixed

 

[GLoRToR]

I think the funny part is I said what would be done and people didn't disappoint. "She'd be top ten" so damn what? Lol. People are funny. I forgot Jade isn't allowed to be any better than mid to low mid, but people can ask for buffs for Noob and co who do massive damage and is same tier range as Jade. My mistake.

YOU'RE CRAZY THAT WOULD MAKE HER A GOOD CHARACTER!
Yeah, cop out bullshit. I even had some clown tell me that labbing is wrong on this forum lmao

 

[John_NX]

-Fix hitboxes, especially F21 not catching people in the air (buff), highs whiffing on duck-blocking opponents (buff), and uppercuts hitting behind people (nerf)
-Normalize Krushing Blow damage / requirements across the roster (this would be a buff for Jade)
-Increase every base combo's damage by 10 (1%) each
-Lower combo damage gained from upward rang by increasing scaling after it (slightly even out the buff from better KBs for ED), but slightly lower its recovery for better general usage
-Lower B1 startup to 9f to be another neutral check
-Make B12 safe if used at an optimal distance
-Make F41 safer through massive pushback to make it its own unique tool (still punishable by dash attacks like Liu kick, but nothing more)
-Make amplified glaive jail on block if the first was blocked
-Lower parry startup to 9f so it's on par with every other parry. Lower hit advantage some so Jade doesnt get as much time to get away after
-Lower air glaive chip and hit damage. Shit's insane
-EDIT: increase Butterfly damage by 20 (2%) and make the corner combos easier
-Give me a variation with Delia's Dance, extended combos, and the ground slam / teleport

Done. She's now fantastic, if not a little too strong, due to the following:

-More usable parry
-Slightly better damage across the board without giving her new combo tools
-More explosive KBs
-Another neutral check with B1
-A tool specifically for pushback
-Glaive jailing if the first is already blocked
-Hitbox shenanigans fixed

Exactly this!! I want Jade buffed too but DO NOT MESS with her glow startup etc. It deletes some characters gameplan. It's fine the way it is.

 

[Arqwart]

I think the funny part is I said what would be done and people didn't disappoint. "She'd be top ten" so damn what? Lol. People are funny. I forgot Jade isn't allowed to be any better than mid to low mid, but people can ask for buffs for Noob and co who do massive damage and is same tier range as Jade. My mistake.

Jade deserves better than what she has now, but mainly because of the idea that her core design just doesnt manage what it wants to do except in specific matchups. My main thing with her current balance is why the fuck she even uses the staff at this point. Her main viable tools are D2, D4, B2, air rang, decent zoning, glow, B343, enhanced rang to end strings, and grabs. Literally only two of those tools use the staff. Her main gameplan is to never be in range to use the staff unless forced to. Her staff is just for getting back to zoning distance because she has nothing to complement gameplay at close/poke range to be worth risking being that close for long.

F21, B12, F41, and Butterfly just dont cut it except in very specific scenarios / matchups. Some of her other variant specials are helpful in this regard, but they're locked to casual play.

 

[M2Dave]

I understood what I suggested so I don't know why you feel the need to be insufferably patronizing for no reason.

Just because I am the only person who is challenging your list of buffs does not mean I am being "insufferably patronizing".

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting your main character to be top tier, but to claim that "if poor Jade only got these 10-15 buffs that I am asking for, she would be good" is a plainly dishonest argument. You are usually reasonable so I expect better from you than to support Glortor's nonsense. If NRS understand what is good for the game, and I would like to think they do, they are not giving mid tier characters 10-15 buffs, which would result in balancing disasters.

 

[RoboCop]

Just because I am the only person who is challenging your list of buffs does not mean I am being "insufferably patronizing".

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting your main character to be top tier, but to claim that "if poor Jade only got these 10-15 buffs that I am asking for, she would be good" is a plainly dishonest argument. You are usually reasonable so I expect better from you than to support Glortor's nonsense. If NRS understand what is good for the game, and I would like to think they do, they are not giving mid tier characters 10-15 buffs, which would result in balancing disasters.

I get what you’re saying, but your post was absolutely patronizing. And most of what’s being discussed are fixes, not buffs. The bf2 thing is a buff, but as it stands that move is hot garbage and needs to be looked at. It shouldn’t combo in the corner. But even if it does, doing 8% midscreen won’t make her stagger pressure broken. If anything, it will help keep her in line with the other upper-mid tier. Her damage output is still abysmal on average.

 

[M2Dave]

I get what you’re saying, but your post was absolutely patronizing. And most of what’s being discussed are fixes, not buffs. The bf2 thing is a buff, but as it stands that move is hot garbage and needs to be looked at. It shouldn’t combo in the corner. But even if it does, doing 8% midscreen won’t make her stagger pressure broken. If anything, it will help keep her in line with the other upper-mid tier. Her damage output is still abysmal on average.

As I have stated before, no character in this game has a safe, mid-hitting special move that hits multiple times and juggles in the corner without any resources. The buff is inconsistent with the current meta and would arguably cause major balancing issues. The limited damage output should be slightly addressed from my estimation.

I understand that the community is hungry for changes, but I personally dislike seeing that 6 out of the 8 threads in the "latest posts" are buff threads. I think we as players should play the game and let the developers worry about buffs and nerfs. Nobody could predict the meta if all hitbox issues were fixed and krushing blows were evenly distributed across the board, not to mention giving every character 10-15 different changes.